Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

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CTK

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The language difference in words between "I am" in reference to the Deity and I am enjoying this pizza is zero, it is the context that is different. There is not a special language for I am.
Okay, here is where I have to disagree with you!

Jesus did say He was the “Bread of life” in John 6:35, but He never referred to Himself as the “pizza of life.” I am going to have to ask you for scripture here…:crossword: what version of the bible are you quoting from?

(I know… it is not the best of jokes but I am trying). :ummm:
 

Grailhunter

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Okay, here is where I have to disagree with you!

Jesus did say He was the “Bread of life” in John 6:35, but He never referred to Himself as the “pizza of life.” I am going to have to ask you for scripture here…:crossword: what version of the bible are you quoting from?

(I know… it is not the best of jokes but I am trying). :ummm:

A little Pizza humor.....a slice of life.
 
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GodsGrace

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There is no doubt that Yeshua is a God.
Yeshua is not a God.
Yeshua is God.

There is no doubt that the Apostles knew that He was a God.
The Apostles knew that He is God.
This is the title they gave him and that they passed on to those they taught.

Ignatius of Antioch learned from both John and Peter.



Ignatius (AD 50-117) was the bishop at the church in Antioch and also a disciple of John the Apostle. He wrote a series of letters to various churches on his way to Rome, where he was to be martyred. He writes,

Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her which hath been blessed in greatness through the plentitude of God the Father; which hath been foreordained before the ages to be for ever unto abiding and unchangeable glory, united and elect in a true passion, by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ our God; even unto the church which is in Ephesus [of Asia], worthy of all felicitation: abundant greeting in Christ Jesus and in blameless joy.2
Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you.3
There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.4
For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan, both from the seed of David and of the Holy Spirit.5
Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life.6
For our God Jesus Christ is more visible now that he is in the Father.7
I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise, for I observed that you are established in an unshakable faith, having been nailed, as it were, to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.8
Wait expectantly for the one who is above time: the Eternal, the Invisible, who for our sake became visible; the Intangible, the Unsuffering, who for our sake suffered, who for our sake endured in every way.9
The topics we were discussing was how Yeshua and Apostles referred to Him and Yahweh and then the whole "I am" thing. And then the fact that Yeshua called Yahweh His God and His Father.
Of course Jesus called Yahweh His God and Father....He was in human form at the time.
He was referring to the ONLY God....but as a different PERSON.
There is one God.
There are three Persons.

God tells us WHAT He is (His essence).
The name tells us WHO He is (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).
The Deity of Yeshua is certain Its how Father and Son Gods worked together for the good of humanity. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son .....This is My Son in whom I am well pleased. And the Father is greater than I and My Father in Heaven.
Correct. When Jesus was on earth...the Father was greater.
The Father was, for example, omnipresent...
Jesus was not.



And Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” Yeshua said they are one as we are one....which means the oneness concept extends to us not the number 1. As in the body of Christ, not 1 God.
We are one IN Christ/God.
Jesus is one WITH God...He is part of God.

Jesus was praying the Priestly prayer....
asking God Father that all believers be one,,,In unity,
as He and God Father are one.

We are NOT one with God because we are sinful and God is not.


The topic is about the details on a complex topic. Not the simple fact that Yeshua is a God....the Son of God....
Messiah and Savior.
It's very simple GH.
Jesus is God.
HOW to explain this is by the Trinity.


John 14:9
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long * with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has
seen Me has seen the Father;
 

NayborBear

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1. Jesus is God
It has come in my experiences that?
A) Jesus IS God!
B) Jesus IS not GOD!
If one believes "B" is correct?
Then that one is more inclined to believe that:
Jesus ALONE, sits on the throne!
And THIS? Is NOT correct!
 

Wrangler

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It is not necessary for the NT to be written in the manner YOU would like.
It is written the way it is and from the NT teaching, Jesus IS GOD.
It’s just not so - proved by the complete absence of a verse in support. You can’t even admit there is no trinitarian verse in all the Bible.

Even if you take some verse and read into it what you claim, it is STILL not a trinitarian statement.

Trinitarians take some ambiguous verse AS IF it is the central message of the Bible. Trinitarians IDOLATRY is so fanatical, you deny anyone can even be a Christian even though no verse says this. That’s how you know it’s IDOLATRY!
 

GodsGrace

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It has come in my experiences that?
A) Jesus IS God!
B) Jesus IS not GOD!
If one believes "B" is correct?
Then that one is more inclined to believe that:
Jesus ALONE, sits on the throne!
And THIS? Is NOT correct!
Revelation 3:21
21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
 

Wrangler

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Except that it's NOT a man-made doctrine.

Thomas: MY LORD AND MY GOD.
Did Jesus correct him or did Jesus accept the title?
In your view, this statement from Thomas equates to disqualifying someone to be a Christian?

You’re unaware of the Strawman you create. The trinity is more more than the man is god thesis. Some claim salvation depends on accepting this IDOL, which is not supported by ANY Scripture.

See extreme eisegesis.
 

GodsGrace

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It’s just not so - proved by the complete absence of a verse in support. You can’t even admit there is no trinitarian verse in all the Bible.

Even if you take some verse and read into it what you claim, it is STILL not a trinitarian statement.

Trinitarians take some ambiguous verse AS IF it is the central message of the Bible. Trinitarians IDOLATRY is so fanatical, you deny anyone can even be a Christian even though no verse says this. That’s how you know it’s IDOLATRY!
The problem here is that you do NOT believe that Jesus is God.
If you did...you'd have to explain HOW Jesus is God.
Happily for we Christians, the early church took the time to explain this via a concept that is found in scripture and was confirmed by the Apostles and those they taught.

@JLB posted an excellent verse....
Please take the time to explain how YOU understand it:

1 Timothy 3:16
16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.


WHO was revealed IN THE FLESH?
 

Grailhunter

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The Apostles knew that He is God.
This is the title they gave him and that they passed on to those they taught.

Ignatius of Antioch learned from both John and Peter.



Ignatius (AD 50-117) was the bishop at the church in Antioch and also a disciple of John the Apostle. He wrote a series of letters to various churches on his way to Rome, where he was to be martyred. He writes,

Of course Jesus called Yahweh His God and Father....He was in human form at the time.
He was referring to the ONLY God....but as a different PERSON.
There is one God.
There are three Persons.

God tells us WHAT He is (His essence).
The name tells us WHO He is (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

The Apostles knew that He is God. This is the title they gave him and that they passed on to those they taught.
A God and usually referred to Him as Lord.....love of God and our Lord Jesus Christ....

Ignatius of Antioch learned from both John and Peter.

Ignatius (AD 50-117) was the bishop at the church in Antioch and also a disciple of John the Apostle. He wrote a series of letters to various churches on his way to Rome, where he was to be martyred. He writes,

Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her which hath been blessed in greatness through the plentitude of God the Father; which hath been foreordained before the ages to be for ever unto abiding and unchangeable glory, united and elect in a true passion, by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ our God; even unto the church which is in Ephesus [of Asia], worthy of all felicitation: abundant greeting in Christ Jesus and in blameless joy.2
Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you.3
There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.4
For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan, both from the seed of David and of the Holy Spirit.5
Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life.6 Yeshua did not appear He was born,
For our God Jesus Christ is more visible now that he is in the Father.7 Again Yeshua explained this....Yeshua in Yahweh and we in Yeshua and Yeshua in us.
I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise, for I observed that you are established in an unshakable faith, having been nailed, as it were, to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.8 Yes they nailed Yeshua to the cross, not Yahweh.
Wait expectantly for the one who is above time: the Eternal, the Invisible, who for our sake became visible; the Intangible, the Unsuffering, who for our sake suffered, who for our sake endured in every way.9

Correct. When Jesus was on earth...the Father was greater.
The Father was, for example, omnipresent...
Jesus was not.

Oh....did Yeshua say, while I am on earth the Father is greater than I but when I ascend to the Father and sit on His right hand I will get a promotion.
 

GodsGrace

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In your view, this statement from Thomas equates to disqualifying someone to be a Christian?

You’re unaware of the Strawman you create. The trinity is more more than the man is god thesis. Some claim salvation depends on accepting this IDOL, which is not supported by ANY Scripture.

See extreme eisegesis.
Not interested in what SOME CLAIM.

To be defined as Christian...
a person MUST believe that Jesus is God.
CHRSITian...it's in the name.

Stating one is Christian and not believing Jesus is God...
is like one stating he's married, but has no wife.

It is a major tenet of the Christian faith.
 

GodsGrace

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The Apostles knew that He is God. This is the title they gave him and that they passed on to those they taught.
A God and usually referred to Him as Lord.....love of God and our Lord Jesus Christ....

Ignatius of Antioch learned from both John and Peter.

Ignatius (AD 50-117) was the bishop at the church in Antioch and also a disciple of John the Apostle. He wrote a series of letters to various churches on his way to Rome, where he was to be martyred. He writes,



Oh....did Yeshua say, while I am on earth the Father is greater than I but when I ascend to the Father and sit on His right hand I will get a promotion.
Jesus was ALWAYS the 2nd Person of the Trinity.


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us,

The WORD was God...
The WORD became flesh...

God became flesh...
 

Grailhunter

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Jesus was ALWAYS the 2nd Person of the Trinity.


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us,

The WORD was God...
The WORD became flesh...

God became flesh...

The Greek Logos explanation of Yeshua.
He was an advocate of the pre-existing Christ that created the world.

I am going to side with Yahweh on this one Who said, I am God and there is no one else like me.
Before they took Yahweh's name out of the scriptures they said.....In the beginning Yahweh created the heaven and the earth.
 

GodsGrace

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You need to read those scriptures again.....it says just as we are one.
Jesus saw God.....
Have WE seen God?

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father,


The Son is in the bossom of the Father.


Hebrews 1:3
3He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature,


Do WE have the exact imprint of God's nature?


We are NOT one with God as Jesus was one with God.
Jesus wished that we be UNITED in God.

Peter expressed it like this:

1 Peter 3:8
8Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.
 

GodsGrace

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It is very simple Yahweh and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit are Gods. The word God is not a name the Gods have names.
I never stated that God is a name.
God is a NATURE,,,an ESSENCE.
God is a WHAT...
NOT a who.
 

GodsGrace

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The Greek Logos explanation of Yeshua.
He was an advocate of the pre-existing Christ that created the world.

I am going to side with Yahweh on this one Who said, I am God and there is no one else like me.
Before they took Yahweh's name out of the scriptures they said.....In the beginning Yahweh created the heaven and the earth.
Yes,,,Yahweh did create the world...
through Jesus.

John 1:3
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing * came into being that has come into being.


Colossians 1:16
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -all things have been created through Him and for Him.
 

GodsGrace

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Again read the scripture....it says as we are one. He said that because oneness concept is not the number 1 it is unity.
Oh. I see, you're saying Jesus is in unity with God?
I would agree...there is only one will between God Father and God Son.

They agree on everything.

John 5:18-19
18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him,
because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the
Son can do nothing * of Himself, unless * it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever * the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.
 
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