Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

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amigo de christo

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The Jews understood Jesus was claiming He was God because they knew the OT, the prophet Isaiah specifically (see the link I gave). We (I am guilty as well) often lack that knowledge as our priority is on the NT.
verily verily what i say unto thee is a fact
they lack knowledge , NOT because their priority was on THE NT
but because they desired another jesus . AN D T HEY DARN sure will DEN Y
the words OF JESUS himself EVEN IN THAT NT . just as they do o ther scrips too .
People are dumb enough and love a lie enough
to actually beleive SOMEHOW the GOD of the old test is in no way THE GOD OF the new test .
T hey act ually dumb enough to think JESUS came to make VOID t he words of GOD
and to establish , WHAT THEY SEE as a better covenant , THAT ALLOWS THEIR SINS to remain upon th em
AND EVEN honors certain sins and WOW , EVEN UNBELEIF NOW .
AS IF somehow an d in any way GOD is opposed to ..........
OR HIS WORD is opposed to ONE THE OTHER . NO SIR , GOD IS HIS WORD and THE WORD IS GOD . that is a fact .
JESUS DIDNT COME to hold rainbows , to kiss korans and budda statues
and to cast THE WORDS OF GOD OUT . But their jesus sure does just that . But now you know why
i wont and did not capitlize their jesus . CAUSE ITS NOT JESUS , ITS NOT OF GOD .
 
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amigo de christo

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This is why i posted about them not able to SEE the Body of Christ

Just as their fathers did not SEE the Christ and had Him crucified, so also will the followers of interfaith cry out:
"Do away with Her"
Its kind of odd
th at you can actually see a type of allegory
JUST as they cried GIVE US BARABAS , A murder
they now cry give us sat ans verion and just as they cry AWAY with JESUS , SO too they cry AWAY with his followers .
KINDA ODD . THAT EVEN AS JUDAS , one who was WITHIN betrayed CHRIST
SO too do those within betray THOSE WHO ARE HIS .
And as they delivered CHRIST over unto the governig authority , to be put to death .
SO too do they deliver over his own unto the governing authority , use the state to put to death THE SAINTS .
AND THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE . only th is time , FAR LARGER the betrayal , far greater the tribulation
as it will be WOR LD WIDE . aint nutting new UNDER THE OL SUN my friend .
 

Marvelloustime

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but david , david , are you telling me that ecumenical interfaith , WHICH DENIED LIVE ON STAGE
the DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE ON JESUS , is of anti christ .
HOW BOUT I ANSWER THAT . YOU BET IT IS . JESUS has been sold out
and much of e ven christendom gives a care less . A CARE LESS david . A care less .
But b eleive me they gonna care ON HIS DAY . ONLY TOO LATE .
@amigo de christo
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Aunty Jane

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Wrangler said:
they deliberately conflate capital-LORD with lowercase-Lord when copying and pasting the text.

Consider Psalm 110:1 (NLT)
The Lord said to my Lord

It should read The LORD said to my Lord

That’s what you got out of my post? Bless your heart.
Yes, I noticed that too.....and when I did, I corrected it. Capital letters convey something that the original text does not. The importance of those capitals (LORD as opposed to Lord) cannot be emphasized enough.
When we see “LORD” in capital letters in the OT, that is where the divine name YHWH has been used and has replaced by a title. Who did this? God or men?

The KJV uses the divine name only four times out of almost 7000 times it is found in the Hebrew Scriptures. But compare Psalm 83:18 with Exodus 3:15 or Isaiah 42:8 and see how failing to use it, distorts the Scriptures. These are verses where God’s name should be powerfully visible, but translators used a title instead.....with no sanction from God to do so.
 

David in NJ

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Yes, I noticed that too.....and when I did, I corrected it. Capital letters convey something that the original text does not. The importance of those capitals (LORD as opposed to Lord) cannot be emphasized enough.
When we see “LORD” in capital letters in the OT, that is where the divine name YHWH has been used and has replaced by a title. Who did this? God or men?

The KJV uses the divine name only four times out of almost 7000 times it is found in the Hebrew Scriptures. But compare Psalm 83:18 with Exodus 3:15 or Isaiah 42:8 and see how failing to use it, distorts the Scriptures. These are verses where God’s name should be powerfully visible, but translators used a title instead.....with no sanction from God to do so.
You and @Wrangler are both blinded to the Holy Scriptures due to unbelief/watchtower deception.


As Yaweh was to David, so also is the FATHER to the LORD/Yaweh

Brothers, I can tell you with confidence that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne.h 31Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.

33Exalted, then, to the right hand of God, He has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,

“Sit at My right hand

35until I make Your enemies

a footstool for Your feet.”’

Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”
 
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Wrangler

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Yes, I noticed that too.....and when I did, I corrected it. Capital letters convey something that the original text does not. The importance of those capitals (LORD as opposed to Lord) cannot be emphasized enough.
When we see “LORD” in capital letters in the OT, that is where the divine name YHWH has been used and has replaced by a title.
1st, one has to have eyes to see the conspiracy in Biblegateway of capital-LORD pasting as lowercase-Lord.

Then one has to have the curiosity of why that text change would be happening?

I even contacted Biblegateway with numerous examples. No response.
 

David in NJ

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1st, one has to have eyes to see the conspiracy in Biblegateway of capital-LORD pasting as lowercase-Lord.

Then one has to have the curiosity of why that text change would be happening?

I even contacted Biblegateway with numerous examples. No response.
First, one must bow the knee and confess with their heart and tongue that Jesus Christ is LORD = Gospel, Acts , Phil 2:5-11, Revelation

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
 

HealthyShape

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Did I say anything to the contrary? Where did I say it was a Christian concept to worship any man?

You claimed Arianism is a Christian concept. However, in Christianity, Jesus is worshiped (even by angels) and only God can be worshiped.

Arianisms, last time I checked, says that Jesus is not God.
 
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Grailhunter

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The WORD/Jesus is Elohim, His FATHER is Elohim, the Holy Spirit is Elohim

How many ways can you be wrong.
Elohim a Hebrew word meaning "god" or gods". Although the word is plural in form, in the Hebrew Bible it most often takes singular verbal or pronominal agreement and refers to a single deity, particularly but not always Yahweh. In other verses it takes plural agreement and refers to gods in the plural but in that case it is referring to Pagan gods.
No one knows were the word Jesus came from.
No J's in the scriptures either.
 

GodsGrace

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and MY GLORY i shall not give to another .
Have you ever wondered why even in revelation
JESUS uses the same langauge
When saying I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , the first and the last .
May i simply tell us all , THIS IS NOT BLAPSHEMY on HIS PART .
that indeed GOD IS HIS WORD . That indeed JESUS IS VERY ESSENCE OF GOD .
That in no way is there a competention between THE GOD and HIS WORD , HIS SPIRIT .
For the Spirit of GOD is the one self same spirit OF CHRIST .
But i darn sure seem to notice a lot of folks acting as though
somehow GOD created THE WORD . No , oh no my friends .
GOD did not create THE WORD
HE SIMPLY S POKE and that life essence came forth of HIM .
LET there be light , and THERE WAS LIGHT .
Acting LIKE GOD created the WORD , is like saying HE created HIMSELF .

Great point !
What could be plainer than when John states that THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD. John 1:1

I really don't know why ANY other scripture is needed when it is finished off with John 1:14
AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH.

And some want to state that the Trinity was "invented" after hundreds of years.
NO sir and no mams .
In the beinning was THE WORD and the WORD was WITH GOD and THE WORD is G OD .
That is not a lie . ITS THE TRUTH . all things were created BY HIM . So i suggest some R
some E , some s pect TO BE GIVEN TO T HE LORD . i have grown weary watching
many try and mold another jesus , another god . Lets stick with what the bible says . Now on those feet
ITS TIME to contend for the true faith . The harlot of all harlots has poured her ecumenical cup of fornication
upon the world and even much of chrsitendom drinketh from it . Not gonna bode well ON THE DAY OF THE LORD .
Some persons claim to believe the words in the NT....
but it would seem that they do not.
 

Aunty Jane

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Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”
I do so wish that you and others actually understood the Scriptures you quote....especially the part you highlighted, above.

Just to be clear.....the Watchtower Society is printing facility.....a legal body required by law to print and distribute vast quantities of literature all over the world. We are Jehovah’s Witnesses...Wrangler is not.

You seem to labor under the misapprehension that Christendom cannot possibly be deceived.
According to Jesus, only “few” will be found on the road to life, leading to the majority receiving his complete rejection as those he “NEVER KNEW”. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)
Majority view will not mean much at the judgment....and excuses will not be accepted.

So, can we examine the verses you have quoted and see what they really say, as opposed to what you assume that they do, due to your own ‘programming’.

You said...”As Yaweh was to David, so also is the FATHER to the LORD/Yaweh”
Do you understand the contradiction you just made?

The LORD YAHWEH is the Father....not the son. Nowhere in all of the Bible is Jesus ever called Yahweh. Nowhere in the whole Bible did Jesus ever call himself “God”....

Jesus is what he called himself.....”the son of God”. (John 10:31-26)

Can God be the son also be the Father? Can a son come into existence at the same time as his father? If there is this kind of confusion created by Christendom’s favourite doctrine, don’t you think there must be a reason?
Who gave us our sense of logic? Why would Yahweh present himself and his precious son as something we cannot understand in the familiar terminology that he uses regarding their relationship? Father and son are never one person in two presentations....they are separate individuals.
Multiple personality disorder is considered a mental illness, but if we are “made in God’s image”, then it should be normal.

In Psalm 110: 1-2, David wrote in prophesy...
“The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies!” (ESV)

There are two “Lords” there, and one LORD (YAHWEH) says to David’s “Lord” (the promised Messiah) to wait “until” he has made his enemies his footstool....IOW, to put his enemies under his feet...nevertheless, Yahweh tells his Messiah to “rule in the midst of his enemies”....how does that happen, as it refers to a future time. When does Messiah’s rule begin?

“Brothers, I can tell you with confidence that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne.“

And true to his prophesy, David knew God’s promise that one of his descendants would be the King of God’s kingdom.

He even foretold the manner of Christ’s resurrection....

31 Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.”

So what was the manner of his resurrection?
His body was not left to rot in a tomb, or to be taken by those keen to engage in relic worship....which is idolatry, so God raised his son from the dead.....but not in the body he sacrificed.....he was “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”, (1 Peter 3:18) which means that the body Christ was raised in, was spirit, the same “form” that God has. (John 4:24) ...he was raised with the ability to materialize.

Angels had materialized in Noah’s day, as did the messengers God sent to his servants on earth. Abraham for example, entertained 3 angels who visited him in human form. Two of them went on to rescue Lot and his family from the city of Sodom.

The accounts in the gospels make mention of Jesus “appearing” to his disciples, rather than being their constant companion and staying with them after his resurrection, like he did for the previous three and a half years.

On one occasion he appeared in a locked room, and on another, when they recognised him by the way he broke the bread at a meal, he simply disappeared right in front of them...(John 20:26; Luke 24:29-31)...proving that he was not raised in the body he had before.

33 Exalted, then, to the right hand of God, He has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend into heaven....”

So David’s prophesy applied after Christ’s death...and his returning to his Father in heaven to “wait” “at his right hand” for the right time to begin his reign, which was to begin whilst Christ’s enemies were still active.

The Holy Spirit that Jesus sent to empower his disciples after his death, was “received from his Father”.

There is way more to Scripture than a cursory reading will reveal.

Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”
The title “Lord” is not a substitute for “God”...it’s a title of respect given to many in Bible times, equivalent to our address to someone in authority as “Sir”.

As the apostles said collectively.....
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (ESV)

How many “gods” do they have? Just one...”the Father”and......How many “lords”?...Just one, and no third party.
 
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GodsGrace

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Agreed. God’s name is YHWH - not Jesus.
Jesus is the name of a Person who was born 2 thousand years ago.
WHO this Person is was understood by the Apostles,,,and this knowledge was passed on to others that came after them....
and eventually - due to heresies growing in the church - was DECLARED at the Council of Nicea in 325AD.

It's like a court declaring that Bill Gates invented Windows....
 

GodsGrace

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This is Circular. Can you admit there is no trinitarian dogma verse in Scripture?

You don’t see the problem with your IDOL.
You're calling JESUS an IDOL !

You want to see a trinitarian verse?
Try this one:

Matthew 3:16-17
16 After being baptized,
Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
17 and behold, a
voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."

Above all three Persons are present:
JESUS
THE HOLY SPIRIT
FATHER

All 3 God.
One God.
Three Persons.


It is my belief that YOU are following an idol.

Commandment 1
  • I am the LORD your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.
 

GodsGrace

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What do the words of God say? Rom 10:9
So you will be saved, if you honestly say, “Jesus is Lord,” and if you believe with all your heart that God raised him from death.


You are falsely equating the trinitarian IDOL with believing Jesus is a man anointed - by God - to be lord of heaven and Earth, where this man was raised from the dead by God.
WHO raised Jesus from the dead?
It was GOD.
BOTH God Father
and
God Son.
Because they are both GOD and share the same NATURE and have the same power.


1 Corinthians 6:14 God Father raises Jesus
14 Now God has not only raised the Lord,,,

John 2:19
God Son raisess Himself
19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."


Jesus had the same power as the Father to raise HIMSELF from the dead.
No man,,,not even a "lord" can accomplish this.

Jesus is God and is able to raise the dead...
even HIMSELF, because He is God.
 

GodsGrace

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You keep repeating a requirement that contradicts Scripture. This is why you cannot admit there is no trinitarian verse in all of Scripture.
There are many trinitarian verse in scripture.
Here's another one for you,,,directly from your "lord":

Matthew 28:19
19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


Can we not agree that Jesus gives to each Person the same authority?

I am a Christian, a Unitarian Christian, who accepts Jesus as my lord and savior. Can you at least admit that Jesus has a God?
OK
Then when asked your religion...the reply should be UNITARIAN.

You do not hold to Christian tenets.
In order to be defined as Christian, you must believe what CHRISTIANS believe.

The Apostles believed Jesus is God.
They passed this information on.

It was believed by ALL CHRISTIANS till just a couple of hundred years ago when heretical beliefs surfaced.

It is not ME making the rules...I'm just trying to shed light on the fact that CHRISTIANITY means something.

It cannot mean what each person would LIKE it to mean.
It is an established religion and has tenets that must be believed in order to be defined as part of that group.

Did you watch the very good YouTubes I posted?
Can't even do that?
 

GodsGrace

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God was revealed in the flesh, vindicated in the spirit, spotted by messengers, proclaimed with the peoples, trusted in the world/area, received up in the glory.

In the flesh but not the flesh.
IN the flesh
but not
THE flesh?

What's the difference?

Here's the verse again:
1 Timothy 3:16 HE is referring to GOD Father.


New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.



HOW would you say the above if you take out the word IN?
Would it look like this?
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh,

Makes no sense.
 

GodsGrace

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It never stopped "rearing its ugly head" and it will always be a Christian idea/concept.
No.
Jesus being just a man is not a Christian idea and will NEVER be accepted by Christianity.
JESUS IS GOD.

If a person does not believe Jesus is God then he belongs to a religion,,,
but not the Christian religion which has already been established as to what one MUST believe in order to be considered of that faith.
 
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