Rapture ... soon?

[rwb]

God did not make an `oops` when He made the nation of Israel and promised them that they would rule over the nations of the world. The `nation` Jesus was referring to was when He would restore the kingdom rule to Israel, just as the 11 disciples were asking.

There are NO scriptures that say that the Body of Christ has replaced the nation of Israel.

If Israel was to rule over the nations of the world, would that not be forever? It's not a matter of replacing Israel of Old, but a matter of increasing Israel of God by grafting Gentiles of faith together with faithful Israel of Old into the good olive tree.

 

[rwb]

Is that the Head of His Body has sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all the truth of His character and His purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the Nations.

The Holy Spirit is sent to guide His people! All of them whether they be Jew or Gentile of faith, they are all the Body of Christ!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Believe the LORD???

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. 2For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

3Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

27And this is My covenant with them

when I take away their sins.”h

28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.i 32For God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on everyone.

There's only one Israel of which all are and all will be saved and it's not the nation of Israel. How do you interpret this passage..

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

What is your understanding of the Israel of which not all who are descended from the nation of Israel are part?

 

[rwb]

Believe the LORD???

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. 2For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

3Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

27And this is My covenant with them

when I take away their sins.”h

28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.i 32For God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on everyone.

I do believe the Lord! I work very hard to discern what is written with the help of Christ's Spirit in me. What I try very hard not to do is to read a preconceived doctrine into God's written Word. To fully understand what is written we MUST be able to discern the things that are spiritually fulfilled or being spiritually fulfilled and not try to force a physical fulfillment upon these.

 

[covenantee]

God did not make an `oops` when He made the nation of Israel and promised them that they would rule over the nations of the world. The `nation` Jesus was referring to was when He would restore the kingdom rule to Israel, just as the 11 disciples were asking.

There are NO scriptures that say that the Body of Christ has replaced the nation of Israel.

There's nothing in the New Covenant about Israel ruling nations.

Do you think that the replacement of an old decayed vanished covenant by a better New Covenant is "an `oops`"?

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[David in NJ]

There's only one Israel of which all are and all will be saved and it's not the nation of Israel. How do you interpret this passage..

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

What is your understanding of the Israel of which not all who are descended from the nation of Israel are part?

No need for interpretation as it is accurate and TRUTH

Embrace that TRUTH with the one i posted.

also, LOVE and BELIEVE this TRUTH = Ephesians 2:

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No need for interpretation as it is accurate and TRUTH

Embrace that TRUTH with the one i posted.

You seemed to post something to contradict the truth I posted, so maybe I misunderstood you? Tell me in plain words what you were intending to say in your post. What is your understanding of Romans 11:26?

 

[David in NJ]

You seemed to post something to contradict the truth I posted, so maybe I misunderstood you? Tell me in plain words what you were intending to say in your post. What is your understanding of Romans 11:26?

Well, what are the plain words of the Holy Spirit Romans 11:25 -35

11:26 is not isolated

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, what are the plain words of the Holy Spirit Romans 11:25 -35

11:26 is not isolated

Was my question not clear? Why do you do this? Please just answer my question. What is your understanding of Romans 11:26? Should it be isolated from Romans 9:6-8?

 

[David in NJ]

Was my question not clear? Why do you do this? Please just answer my question. What is your understanding of Romans 11:26? Should it be isolated from Romans 9:6-8?

Why i do this is the SAME reason why the Holy Spirit directed Paul to write Romans, Ephesians and Galatians on this very subject.

We cannot isolate a single verse

 

[Marilyn C]

conjecture or unbelief???

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her 26to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.

28In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church. 30For we are members of His body.d

31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”e 32This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

The word `her` is not there, it is `it` referring to the Body. Christ and His Body of which `we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

Doctrine is not built on an exhortation of men to love their wives as their own body.

 

[David in NJ]

The word `her` is not there, it is `it` referring to the Body. Christ and His Body of which `we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 30)

Doctrine is not built on an exhortation of men to love their wives as their own body.

Marilyn

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, you have misrepresented what I posted MANY times, so you have no room to talk. Okay, so you understand that the body of Christ existed before Paul wrote about it. So, what is the point then when you talk about believers not knowing what it was all about yet until Paul explained it? What does that matter?

We read of Barnabus, (apostle) and others before Paul however, God`s word tells us that the revelation of the Body of Christ was given to him. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

The importance of that is that the 12 disciples did not know of this and thus were preaching & witnessing to Israel that Jesus was Lord and Christ. That is wonderful revelation and salvation from that. Israel`s inheritance as promised is to rule the nations under Christ.

Then when Jesus the Head of the Body revealed to Paul the revelation of the Body of Christ, salvation is the same through Christ, however their inheritance is different. The Body of Christ is promised to sit with Christ on His own throne in the highest. This is further good news. Not different as to salvation for Israel and the Body of Christ but their inheritance is different.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

The word in Greek is `it,` referring to the New Man coming to the maturity of a perfect MAN. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13)

 

[David in NJ]

The word in Greek is `it,` referring to the New Man coming to the maturity of a perfect MAN. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13)

YES indeed but you are not SEEING the whole Picture = which requires all the Scripture on the subject

 

[Marilyn C]

What the disciples did not yet understand is HOW the Kingdom of God would be restored for them as well as Gentiles of faith with them. They were focused on having a physical Kingdom of God like what was in the days of King David. It had not yet been revealed to them through Christ's Spirit that the Kingdom of God that Christ ushered in would not be a physical Kingdom as it was before, because His Kingdom is NOT now of THIS world, and cannot be observed through physical sight, can only be known and entered when man is born again, because the Kingdom of God is within you.

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:5-8 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Christ came with the Kingdom of God, but He was expected to come with a physical Kingdom of God that would be with great power. To prove He had come with the Kingdom of God that cannot be physically seen, and is within you, He cast out devils through the power of God.

Matthew 12:28 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Premillennialists, like those of Old are still looking for Christ to come with to this earth with the physical Kingdom of God.

The kingdom rule of the Lord is not conferred by any earthly ruler, for it is by the Father who will set Him on Mount Zion in the heavenlies. (Ps. 2: 6)

And yes His rulership is within us now. However, he will rule over all the nations for the Father has given them to Him. (Ps. 2: 8)

And yes Christ came to establish His rulership through Israel at that time. He knew they would reject Him but He still offered it to them so that they could be accountable for rejecting Him.

I am a premil, but I am not looking for the earthly rule of the Lord over the nations, that is for Israel. I am looking for the Lord to come and take me `home.`

 

[Marilyn C]

YES indeed but you are not SEEING the whole Picture = which requires all the Scripture on the subject

Yes it does. So what about those scriptures I posted - Isa. 54: 5 & 6 Hosea 2:19 & 20?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why i do this is the SAME reason why the Holy Spirit directed Paul to write Romans, Ephesians and Galatians on this very subject.

We cannot isolate a single verse

You should be able to answer a simple question about what you believe. Are you not interested in being clear about what you believe and why?

 

[David in NJ]

Yes it does. So what about those scriptures I posted - Isa. 54: 5 & 6 Hosea 2:19 & 20?

Marilyn, JESUS and the Apostles have the revelation of the OT = they wrote it down for you to SEE

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The kingdom rule of the Lord is not conferred by any earthly ruler, for it is by the Father who will set Him on Mount Zion in the heavenlies. (Ps. 2: 6)

And yes His rulership is within us now. However, he will rule over all the nations for the Father has given them to Him. (Ps. 2: 8)

Given to Him to be destroyed. How are you missing that part?

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And yes Christ came to establish His rulership through Israel at that time. He knew they would reject Him but He still offered it to them so that they could be accountable for rejecting Him.

I am a premil, but I am not looking for the earthly rule of the Lord over the nations, that is for Israel. I am looking for the Lord to come and take me `home.`

Our home will be the new heavens and new earth for eternity.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.