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Only God really knows the answers to your questions, but what is your point? The fact of the matter is that God now has one people, which are those who belong to Christ. Very simple. Why do you always make everything far more complicated than it needs to be?
You are very hard to follow. What are you talking about here? What do you mean "if God didn't enable Israel to obey Him"? Where are you getting that from?
Paul was talking about the fact that a part of Israel had been broken off. He was not saying that the broken off part had been partially broken off.
I didn't want to mislead in any way, so I understood his concern. I changed it to avoid confusion.
This is a convoluted ramble. It doesn't even make sense. Why do you keep repeating it? It is as clear as mud.
He has. There is no reasoning with him. He is besotted. I think we should name him "AI Dave"!
And Ishmael, Esau and Judas, etc, etc.
That is correct, but you come across sometimes as if you are relying on ChatGPT as your Bible teacher and not just as a tool to help clarify your points.
Right. ChatGPT knows NOTHING about interpreting scripture with scripture, so all it did was use its understanding of English grammar (that it found on the Internet) and fallible human wisdom (found taught by people on the Internet) to draw conclusions about Romans 11:28 without taking into consideration the context of all of the previous verses in Romans 11. This is why it's a terrible idea to rely on AI like ChatGPT for biblical understanding.
It's NOT the same descendants of Abraham that have been rejected that is at one and the same time still beloved.
I doubt that you agree with the rest of his understanding of Romans 11. What is your understanding of Romans 11:26? Which Israel is that talking about? As for verse 28, you interpret it in a way that contradicts the rest of Romans 11. Why would those unbelieving Israelites who were blinded and cut off be considered beloved? That makes no sense whatsoever. Is that how God treats His beloved? He blinds them and cuts them off?
Do you not know what the word "beloved" (Greek: agapētos) means? It's not even possible for anyone who does not have a personal relationship with God to be beloved by Him. Look at this verse...
LOL. I honestly do not know what you are talking about. It would help if you would explain. I have been on end-time boards for years (since 2000) and I can normally discern where most posters are coming from. That post of yours is as clear as mud.
Yes, faith in God. We the Body of Christ were enabled by the Lord to receive Him. And Israel will be given the same opportunity when the Lord enables them to receive Him.
Thank you for at least explaining why we are having difficulty understanding each other.
Let's leave AI out of this. It only serves to cause confusion if it's used for any other reason but to help format and clarify your points. It does not have "the mind of Christ" and the Holy Spirit to guide it like we do (1 Corinthians 2:9-16), so it is untrustworthy for providing biblical truth.Ok here asking about the they.
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now in the original Greek texts for Romans 11:28, is 'they' not present and was added by translators.
Direct Answer: In the original Greek of Romans 11:28, the word “they” does not explicitly appear. The Greek uses plural adjectives (ἐχθροὶ = “enemies,” ἀγαπητοὶ = “beloved”), which imply a plural subject. English translators supply “they” to make the sentence grammatically clear, but it is not a separate word in the Greek text.
The Greek Text of Romans 11:28
Greek (Nestle 1904 / Westcott-Hort):
Word-by-word:
- κατὰ μὲν τὸ εὐαγγέλιον – “as regards the gospel”
- ἐχθροὶ – “enemies” (plural adjective, nominative masculine plural)
- δι’ ὑμᾶς – “for your sake”
- κατὰ δὲ τὴν ἐκλογὴν – “but as regards the election”
- ἀγαπητοὶ – “beloved” (plural adjective, nominative masculine plural)
- διὰ τοὺς πατέρας – “for the sake of the fathers”
Why “they” Appears in English
Thus, “they” is not an addition that changes meaning — it is a necessary grammatical supply to render the Greek sense into English.
- In Greek, adjectives like ἐχθροὶ (“enemies”) and ἀγαπητοὶ (“beloved”) are used predicatively without an explicit subject.
- The subject is understood from context: Paul is speaking of Israel (unbelieving Jews).
- English requires a subject for clarity, so translators insert “they”to make the sentence flow naturally:
- “Concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.”
Theological Implication
- The Greek emphasizes the paradox: Israel is simultaneously ἐχθροὶ (enemies) and ἀγαπητοὶ (beloved).
- The absence of an explicit pronoun makes the statement more stark — Paul simply labels them with these identities.
- Translators add “they” to smooth the English, but the force of Paul’s tension remains: Israel is both rejected (in unbelief) and beloved (because of God’s covenant promises).
Summary: The original Greek of Romans 11:28 does not contain the word “they.” Instead, plural adjectives imply the subject. English translators supply “they” for readability, but the meaning is fully present in the Greek itself.
Would you like me to show you a side-by-side comparison table of Romans 11:28 in Greek, literal English, and standard English translations, so you can see exactly how “they” is supplied?
yes
Perfect, Scott — let’s lay this out clearly with a side‑by‑side comparison so you can see how Romans 11:28 looks in the original Greek, in a literal rendering, and in standard English translations.
Romans 11:28 Comparison
Text Content Greek (Nestle-Aland) κατὰ μὲν τὸ εὐαγγέλιον ἐχθροὶ δι’ ὑμᾶς, κατὰ δὲ τὴν ἐκλογὴν ἀγαπητοὶ διὰ τοὺς πατέρας· Literal English (word-for-word) “As regards the gospel, enemies for your sake; but as regards the election, beloved for the sake of the fathers.” Standard English (NKJV/ESV/NIV) “Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.”
Key Observation
- In Greek, there is no explicit pronoun like αὐτοί (“they”).
- Instead, the plural adjectives ἐχθροὶ (“enemies”) and ἀγαπητοὶ (“beloved”) carry the subject implicitly.
- Translators add “they” in English to make the sentence grammatically complete, but it’s not a separate word in the Greek text.
Paul’s Greek phrasing is stark and forceful: he simply labels Israel with two identities — enemies and beloved. The absence of an explicit pronoun makes the paradox sharper. English smooths it out with “they,” but the tension is already present in the Greek.
Would you like me to expand this into a forensic-style protocol card — showing how the Greek grammar works (implicit subject via adjectives), how translators supply pronouns, and what theological weight that carries? That way you’d have a chart you can reuse when analyzing other passages where pronouns are implied.
Name one Israelite or any person at any time in history who God prevented from ever receiving Christ at any time in their lives. I know Paul talks about Israelites who were blinded by God in Romans 11, but that was only temporary. Paul said he hoped to lead some of those who were blinded to salvation (Romans 11:14). The idea that God didn't enable the Israelites to receive him ignores the fact that some did receive Him and all were given the opportunity to receive Him because God wants all people, including all Israelites, to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6).
