ARE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS FOR US?

[Doug]

So the Children of Israel have both, the law and do by nature the things contained in the law?

The verse only mentions Gentiles
The Jews are talked about in regard to the law..........[Rom 2:23 KJV] "Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?"

 

[JLB]

Jesus preached the kingdom was at hand. The kingdom on earth in which Christ and the believing remnant of Israel will reign for a thousand years. The apostles were looking for the restoration of the Israel's earthly kingdom.........[Act 1:6 KJV] "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

Paul didnt preach the earthly kingdom. The kingdom of God is used in regard to God's kingdom including heaven and earth

There is one Gospel; the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


The same Gospel Jesus preached, the same Gospel Paul preached, the same Gospel that is preached today.


Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.



Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:14-15



And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14

 

[Doug]

So the Children of Israel have both, the law and do by nature the things contained in the law?

Then for them to go against the law must've been extra challenging hey.

Like when God gave the 10 commandments, written by His finger. Eg. Do not kill. Which was just confirming what they did by nature anyway. They didn't kill eachother.

But how conflicted Joshua and Caleb must've been when God told them to kill. Everything must've been crying out, No, this is not right. This is not natural. It goes against my nature AND what was written.

Possibly a lot of discussion before making the decision to go against the past written word of God (given 40 years earlier) to obey the current voice of God of kill every man, woman, child and animal in Jericho.

This verse speaks of Israel having an evil conscience.........[Heb 10:22 KJV] "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

 

[quietthinker]

But how conflicted Joshua and Caleb must've been when God told them to kill.

I question whether it was God who told them to kill. It is clear Moses who wrote the account thought so, Jesus however makes it clear it is the Devil who came to steal, kill and destroy.

John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

That window open begins to give clarity to quiet a few utterances made in OT writings.

Satan who disguises himself as an angel of light has managed to worm his way into the scripture and thereby misrepresent God.
Yes, I know many will throw their hands up in shock horror as this challenges their idea that the scripture is infallible and inerrant.
I would remind the listener that it is men who have superimposed those labels (inerrant and infallible) onto scripture. Yes, they turned the commandments of men as if they were the commandments of God.

Believers in the scriptures today, particularly the old testament are also conflicted when honesty prevails in their innermost person. Many will compartmentalise, cherry picking to suit one's view and ignore that which doesn't. Didn't the Jews do the same? This practice suited them to justify the killing of Jesus....and we know who the driving force is behind that action.....as it was of Judas' betrayal.

 

[One 2 question]

I question whether it was God who told them to kill. It is clear Moses who wrote the account thought so, Jesus however makes it clear it is the Devil who came to steal, kill and destroy.

Satan certainly does kill. But you question the record of Moses? Fair enough. That's up to you.

John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

That window open begins to give clarity to quiet a few utterances made in OT writings.

So the flood in Noah's day is in question also? Did God actually speak to Noah at all. Was there an actual flood? An actual ark? If there was and it wasn't God Who brought this about then it was Satan who caused the flood or was it a natural occurrence?

Satan who disguises himself as an angel of light has managed to worm his way into the scripture and thereby misrepresent God.
Yes, I know many will throw their hands up in shock horror as this challenges their idea that the scripture is infallible and inerrant.
I would remind the listener that it is men who have superimposed those labels (inerrant and infallible) onto scripture. Yes, they turned the commandments of men as if they were the commandments of God.

Unfortunately I'd have to somewhat agree with you

Believers in the scriptures today, particularly the old testament are also conflicted when honesty prevails in their innermost person. Many will compartmentalise, cherry picking to suit one's view and ignore that which doesn't. Didn't the Jews do the same? This practice suited them to justify the killing of Jesus....and we know who the driving force is behind that action.....as it was of Judas' betrayal.

Are you proposing that Jesus's Father never planned to have His only begotten Son killed? And somehow Satan was able to sneak in unnoticed by God and have Jesus put to death. Or did His Father just have to watch because His hands were tied by Satan's free will to choose to kill that innocent perfect man.

So only Satan can kill or influence others to kill? God has never killed or asked others to kill? Does one have to remove the book of revelations from the bible? John recorded that God has prepared a scroll that contains some horrific plagues and other events that depict extreme violence that would dwarf anything Satan could think up or do.

So does God kill? Does God get his angels to kill? Does God command humans to kill?

 

[David in NJ]

If the covenant is or was only for ethnic Israel does that mean the gentiles have permission to be lawless?

Now that is 'thinking out Loud' = i LIKE it!!!

 

[One 2 question]

Believers in the scriptures today, particularly the old testament are also conflicted when honesty prevails in their innermost person.

Personally I'm not conflicted at all with anything God did that's recorded in scripture or outside of it. God is the designer, creator and owner of all that He created. I know He has a script for His creations and He is carrying it out with no one or nothing to prevent Him from carrying it out exactly as He planned. This is extremely reassuring for He will do everything for His benefit.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Jesus didnt change the law, he just said what matters whihc pertains to the heart not culture.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus didnt change the law, he just said what matters whihc pertains to the heart not culture.

JESUS fulfilled the law for no one could.

Once HE fulfilled the OT law HE then established His Law = all 10 Commandments are Found in CHRIST

 

[quietthinker]

So the flood in Noah's day is in question also? Did God actually speak to Noah at all. Was there an actual flood? An actual ark? If there was and it wasn't God Who brought this about then it was Satan who caused the flood or was it a natural occurrence?

It was Satan who bought about the flood but God gets the blame. Does that sound familiar? As to how it was brought about, I can only guess. Maybe those antediluvians had sufficient knowledge to manipulate the elements sufficiently to change the climate and the genetics of living creatures....subsequently dinosaurs ?
Yes, it was God who instructed Noah to build an Ark.....a safe haven for all and any who would listen and hear Noah's message.
If more people than Noah's immediate family had of listened and heard, there would have been room in the Ark or if needed, they could have built a second one. I'm sure that repentant people would not have been destroyed.

Something else to consider:- what was the reason given for the flood to occur? We are told it was the wickedness of men. Yes, it was the wickedness of men. They caused their own demise much like we are doing today with climate change.

If it was God who caused the flood to mitigate the wickedness of men then it was a failure because a few generations later they were concentrating the population and building a tower contrary to God's command to spread out and populate the Earth.

 

[quietthinker]

Are you proposing that Jesus's Father never planned to have His only begotten Son killed?

Yes. God knew it would happen and said it would but prediction does not equal causation. Isaiah who wrote of this was of the view that both good and evil come from God and so attributed Jesus' death to God.
Death is alien to God. God is the life giver, not the life taker according to Jesus. John 10:10

So only Satan can kill or influence others to kill? God has never killed or asked others to kill? Does one have to remove the book of revelations from the bible? John recorded that God has prepared a scroll that contains some horrific plagues and other events that depict extreme violence that would dwarf anything Satan could think up or do.

So does God kill? Does God get his angels to kill? Does God command humans to kill?

The book of Revelation doesn't need removing, it just needs understanding. These matters you have addressed can be discussed in more detail if you are interested?

Death, disease, plagues and violence are not a part of God's play book so to speak, nor are they of God's angels. These elements all belong to the enemy, as Jesus has made clear.

 

[quietthinker]

Personally I'm not conflicted at all with anything God did that's recorded in scripture or outside of it. God is the designer, creator and owner of all that He created. I know He has a script for His creations and He is carrying it out with no one or nothing to prevent Him from carrying it out exactly as He planned. This is extremely reassuring for He will do everything for His benefit.

or, does he do it for the benefit of his creation......even condescending to become a man and allowing wicked men to murder him....so men and angels can see that God's character is of a nature that he would rather allow himself to be killed than kill.

 

[rvmb]

or, does he do it for the benefit of his creation......even condescending to become a man and allowing wicked men to murder him....so men and angels can see that God's character is of a nature that he would rather allow himself to be killed than kill.

Who here will never again break one of the 10 Commandments ?
Who here loves their "neighbor" as themselves ?

 

[quietthinker]

Who here will never again break one of the 10 Commandments ?
Who here loves their "neighbor" as themselves ?

We as people have a tendency, nay a compulsion to make it all about us. The Gospel is about God's disposition towards us. it is about God's kindness in the face of unspeakable horror towards himself. It is Good News for us but it is not about us.
Keep the Commandments by all means, love your neighbour as you love yourself, nay, as Jesus loved you....yes, give your life ...but don't make it about you.

 

[One 2 question]

It is Good News for us but it is not about us.

Absolutely truth. Very well said. Thanks.

 

[One 2 question]

yes, give your life ...but don't make it about you.

Thanks for the reminder. It seems everything and everyone around us is saying it is about us. No! We fix our eyes on JESUS and make it about Him, His Father and Their Spirit.

 

[quietthinker]

Thanks for the reminder. It seems everything and everyone around us is saying it is about us. No! We fix our eyes on JESUS and make it about Him, His Father and Their Spirit.

 

[rvmb]

We as people have a tendency, nay a compulsion to make it all about us. The Gospel is about God's disposition towards us. it is about God's kindness in the face of unspeakable horror towards himself. It is Good News for us but it is not about us.
Keep the Commandments by all means, love your neighbour as you love yourself, nay, as Jesus loved you....yes, give your life ...but don't make it about you.

What does Christ through Paul teach is required of believers today to be saved/justified/sealed ?
Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4.
What are the conditions ?
Titus 3:5, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:24, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1, Eph 2:8-9.
How does that compare with your understanding of how to enter eternal life ?

 

[quietthinker]

What does Christ through Paul teach is required of believers today to be saved/justified/sealed ?
Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4.
What are the conditions ?
Titus 3:5, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:24, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1, Eph 2:8-9.
How does that compare with your understanding of how to enter eternal life ?

As we see/ comprehend and value how much we are loved we will walk in ways which are consistent with God's values ie, mercy, justice and righteousness.

 

[rvmb]

As we see/ comprehend and value how much we are loved we will walk in ways which are consistent with God's values ie, mercy, justice and righteousness.

Yes, we try our best but we are NOT saved by trying, we are saved ONLY by placing our faith/trust/belief in the death/burial/resurrection of Christ - Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4.