THE TEN COMMANDMENTS SUMMARIZE THE MOSAIC COVENANT

[Adventageous]

It's not known who wrote Hebrews

It was Paul. The linguistics match, the wording matches, and all of early historic Christianity acclaimed it to be from Paul, and it given among those scriptures, and associated with such.

 

[Adventageous]

It's not known who wrote Hebrews

[Acts 17:2 KJV] "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,".............This doesnt confirm he observed the sabbath only he went routinely to persuade the Jews

[Luke 4:16 KJV] "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read."..............Jesus went into the synagogue to teach/preach/read/and heal

The willing blindness you presently have about Act. 17:2 in conjunction with Luk. 4:16 is simply amazing to me. Luk. 4:16 ia all about the Gospel, first proclaimed by Jesus on the sabbath, the day of freedom / rest from sin in fulfillment of prophecy no less, and then think Paul was not keeping sabbath (even though all of Acts shows otherwise), as Jesus had, Paul's own Lord and Saviour from sin, and perfect example of how to live the everlasting life, and simply say Paul only showed up to tell people to not rest, to continue in sin (1 Jhn 3:4), and so violate the sabbath of God even more? Amazing. Simply Amazing. No wonder, John wondered / marvelled at the woman in Revelation 17 ...

The verses are parallel in their language. Since Jesus kept sabbath, so was Paul. If Paul was not, then neither did Jesus, and you have an issue either way.

 

[Adventageous]

Hi A, you didn't answer my question. What day did Paul say was our Sabbath rest. He did refer back to when it was the 7th, but what is it about in the New Covenant?

Yes, I did most definitely answer your question. You simply chose to reject that answer. That is on you, not me.

Paul stated that the 7th day, from the foundation of the world, is the rest of God, that we (Christians) are to enter into by faith. He did not say it was a person. He said it was a day.

You seem to have a confusion as to the two days mentioned in Hebrews 4.

1. The weekly 7th day, from the foundation of the world which "remaineth". God's rest, for all repentant to enter into by faith.​

2. The to day (present time), a 'day' (time) of grace to repent and so keep God's commandments since AD 31 (Calvary).​

They are not the same day.

The Ten Commandments are the New / Everlasting Covenant in Christ Jesus, as each of them is the eternal promise of God to the repentant believer of what God does in them. So in the New Covenant, the commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery.", is not merely an external negative, but becomes the internal promise of God, that by His grace and Holy Spirit, by God's purpose in Christ Jesus, the Christian will be brought to such a condition to be like Jesus on earth and "not commit adultery", since the law is no longer merely external, but written internally upon the fleshy tables (2 tables, the frontal lobe of the brain) of the heart by the Holy Ghost.

Those who refuse the first, have no rest.
Those who refuse the second, cannot / will not keep the first, since they refuse to repent, and enter into God's rest. They doubt, and have not the faith to enter, as them of old.

 

[Adventageous]

Here again, the New Covenant is all about our Sabbath rest. And Romans 7 gives us why? The verses in Romans 7 you keep referring to are about the Old Covenant. What is special about the New?

Do you think that the Ten Commandments are the old covenant? If so, why? There is no scripture for that, though some abuse a few texts, but have confusion / conflation of covenants in those verses. Easily demonstrated, as I have done so in the book, which I see you also refuse (Pro. 18:13,17) to read, as your answers are already given there.

 

[Adventageous]

A, you'll have to put everything you've learned in the past on a shelf, and go back and read Romans 7 for yourself.

I did that already, thank you. It is why I reject your abuse of those texts. (PS, If you cannot tell by now, I think your theology absolutely horrendous, an abomination to all that is truth, justice, equity, righteousness, love).

 

[Adventageous]

I agree with you here

Paul didnt teach the law for righteousness.

This is a post I wrote PAUL REFLECTS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

Paul did indeed restate the essence of the ten EXCEPT for the sabbath
Lets look at the verses you gave to show he did

[Romans 2:17 KJV] "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,"
[Romans 2:19 KJV] "And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,"
[Romans 2:20 KJV] "An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law."
[Romans 2:21 KJV] "Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?"......................Paul was not telling them to keep the law he was showing them they couldnt be righteous by keeping the law...........[Romans 3:9 KJV] "What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;"

[Romans 13:8 KJV] "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."
[Romans 13:9 KJV] "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
[Romans 13:10 KJV] "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law."..............How could the sabbath be fulfilled by loving your neighbor? The sabbath was only a day of rest................[Exodus 20:9 KJV] "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:"
[Exodus 20:10 KJV] "But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:"

[Ephesians 4:28 KJV] "Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth."................This is one of the ten commandments that are reflected by Paul but has no relationship with the sabbath.

You do not know how sabbath keeping is loving to God and neighbour? Really? Jesus gave numerous examples in the NT. Do you need me to go over those examples to show you how keeping sabbath is loving your neighbour, and violating the sabbath is not loving your neighbour from those same texts? You even cited a portion of the commandment which gives some of that very evidence!

Here is what I actually cited in regards Paul and the 4th Commandment in the post you responded to:

"... [04.] [Exo. 20:8-11] Act. 13:14-16,42,44, 14:15-16, 15:21 (see Isa. 56:6), 16:13, 17:2 (3 consecutive sabbaths; also compare Luk. 4:16), 18:4,7 (“every sabbath”; also see Jhn. 16:2),11 (“year and six months”; over 78 sabbaths kept consecutively, with Jews, Gentiles and whole city at least once); in Act. 18:23, “he had spent some time there” (several sabbaths); in Act. 19:8, “for the space of three months” (est. 12 sabbaths); in Act. 19:10, “continued by the space of two years” (est. 104 sabbaths), in Act. 19:22, “for a season” (several sabbaths), in Act. 20:3, “three months” (est. 12 sabbaths), and in Act. 20:18,31, “all seasons, “a space of three years” (est. 156 sabbaths); Heb. 4:1-12 (especially vs. 9; “rest” = koine Greek “σαββατισμός”, “sabbatismos”), 10:25 (the Lord’s day, the 7th day in weekly cycle and also the greater ‘Day of the LORD’, the 1000 years) ..."​

Where did I cite Rom. 2:17-21, 3:9, 13:8-10; Eph. 4:28 in that 4th commandment section? I did not. Those other places are to show that stealing, adultery, etc are still wrong, still a violation of God's law in the NT, NC period.

If you think Paul, in Romans, did not tell people to continue to keep God's commandments, you have missed the entire point of Romans altogether.

Paul throughout Romans 1-13, 15-16, and in every other epistle he wrote, magnified the Ten Commandments as to be obeyed by those in Christ Jesus, by the Holy Spirit, for Paul clearly says, “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Rom. 3:31 KJB):

Rom. 1:18, 2:26-27, 3:31, 6:1-23, 7:7,12,14,16, 8:4-14, 9:6-8,27,31,32, 11:1-36, 12:1,2,5,9, 13:8-14, 15:1-27, 16:17-19 KJB​

​

Romans 1:18 KJB - “... the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men ...”​

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1 John 5:17 KJB - “All unrighteousness is sin ...”​

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Romans 11:26 KJB - “... as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”​

Obedience to God, by grace through faith is not for salvation / righteousness, but is done in salvation, to bring a person to do righteousness (Psa. 119:172 KJB). It is the outward demonstration (fruit / result) of living faith, not the root of the matter. Christ Jesus is the seed and root. Why keep saying things as if I have ever said Paul said that obedience to the Commandments of God is for salvation? I never have, and never implied such a thing. Put away the strawman and respond to what I have actually said, not some vain imagination of what you think I might have said (but did not), otherwise you are only arguing against phantoms of your own design.

Additonally, if you do not know that the entire Ten Commandments are a single "word" (a unified whole, the perfect description of Love (1 Jhn. 4:8,16; Exo. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7), under two headings; Love God - Deu. 6:5; Love Neighbour - Lev. 19:17-18), and to break (transgress) one is to violate the whole, then I suggest you reconsider James, as he knew better:

Deu_4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.​

​

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​

You do not think you can 'steal' time from God, that belongs to God? The sabbath is God's time, and thus to not keep that holy, is to steal both time and person (at minimum yourself) from God. God considers it robbery to violate the Holy sabbath and to use that sacred time for your own personal time / business. It would be akin to clocking in at work, and using that paid time to do your own thing rather than what you are there being paid for. It is stealing time and person, resources, etc. I see you do not understand the interconnectivity of the Ten Commandments at all.

 

[MatthewG]

Technically it would be the first two, to love God first and to love your neighbor as yourself.

That’s what Jesus did in order to fulfill the Mosaic Covenant and put it down.

Moving into the world we live into day, with God living within all people, even Jesus lives in all people. However whether or not they are spiritually alive today or not remains completely on the individual having faith.

I know this is for sure the 10 commandments where not written to us to fulfill… it was to the specific what was it the 12 groups of Israel regardless if they kingdom had split or not.

Jesus fulfilled the mosaic covenant by loving God and loving his neighbor as himself.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus was the only one to ever fulfill the mosasic covenant by loving God and loving others.

See... There was cursing and blessing upon those 12 tribes, if they did not sacrfice still for their sin.

Jesus never sinned, and loved God and loved others, and he became the one whom gave up his life, and God raised him back on the third day.


Just shortly after leaving Egypt and before the commandments were even given the people of Israel had already started not to listen to Moses and what he had to say concerning the things God shared to them through him....

They started haboring mana that turned into maggots. They already started not listening again. This entire theme is founded in the scriputre.


I know this much the 10 commandments are only to those phsyical nation of israel when it was 12 tribes and was around. Jesus done away with it... by putting it down...

Yet so many people revert back to religious obligiations when they shouldnt even worry about them, which man dictates what you need to do to be saved....

That part is easy, you start having an active life with faith that God exist, and you either let him work in your life or not...

 

[Doug]

It was Paul. The linguistics match, the wording matches, and all of early historic Christianity acclaimed it to be from Paul, and it given among those scriptures, and associated with such.

i to think Paul is a strong possibility but cant know for certain

 

[Doug]

The willing blindness you presently have about Act. 17:2 in conjunction with Luk. 4:16 is simply amazing to me. Luk. 4:16 ia all about the Gospel, first proclaimed by Jesus on the sabbath, the day of freedom / rest from sin in fulfillment of prophecy no less, and then think Paul was not keeping sabbath (even though all of Acts shows otherwise), as Jesus had, Paul's own Lord and Saviour from sin, and perfect example of how to live the everlasting life, and simply say Paul only showed up to tell people to not rest, to continue in sin (1 Jhn 3:4), and so violate the sabbath of God even more? Amazing. Simply Amazing. No wonder, John wondered / marvelled at the woman in Revelation 17 ...

The verses are parallel in their language. Since Jesus kept sabbath, so was Paul. If Paul was not, then neither did Jesus, and you have an issue either way.

I wouldnt be threatened if Jesus or Paul kept the sabbath but no verses expound it. Jesus could keep the sabbath because he fulfilled the law. Paul could have kept it because he was a devout Jew and wouldnt want to offend the Jews. To say so would be an assumption however

 

[Doug]

You do not know how sabbath keeping is loving to God and neighbour? Really? Jesus gave numerous examples in the NT. Do you need me to go over those examples to show you how keeping sabbath is loving your neighbour, and violating the sabbath is not loving your neighbour from those same texts? Yo

Please just give me a few otherwise how would I know how you are applying them to the sabbath

 

[Doug]

Where did I cite Rom. 2:17-21, 3:9, 13:8-10; Eph. 4:28 in that 4th commandment section? I did not. Those other places are to show that stealing, adultery, etc are still wrong, still a violation of God's law in the NT, NC period.

You did here:
[08.] [Exo. 20:15] Rom. 2:21..........I gave surrounding verses
[07.] [Exo. 20:14] Rom. 13:8-10;
[08.] [Exo. 20:15] Eph. 4:28

 

[Doug]

Why keep saying things as if I have ever said Paul said that obedience to the Commandments of God is for salvation? I never have, and never implied such a thing. Put away the strawman and respond to what I have actually said, not some vain imagination of what you think I might have said (but did not), otherwise you are only arguing against phantoms of your own design.

I never said that you said the commandments were for salvation. Here is what I said................I agree with you here
Paul didnt teach the law for righteousness.

What I objected to was you saying Paul taught ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS. You asserted Paul taught to keep the sabbath. Paul left it for the individual to do so not by commandment. Paul did convey the essence of all the other nine commandments

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you think that the Ten Commandments are the old covenant? If so, why? There is no scripture for that, though some abuse a few texts, but have confusion / conflation of covenants in those verses. Easily demonstrated, as I have done so in the book, which I see you also refuse (Pro. 18:13,17) to read, as your answers are already given there.

Ask yourself, how can you keep the 7th day Sabbath except by the letter?

The Ten Commandment IS the Old Covenant, Ex. 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. It is called the ministry of death.

2 Corinthians 3:4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Do you know what it is about the New Covenant's Spirit that beats the Old Covenant's laws? What did Jesus do that makes the Ten Commandments obsolete to the born again Christian? The unsaved are still under the Old Covenant Ten Commandments.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I did that already, thank you. It is why I reject your abuse of those texts. (PS, If you cannot tell by now, I think your theology absolutely horrendous, an abomination to all that is truth, justice, equity, righteousness, love).

Here is why you think that the letter is the only way to keep the Sabbath rest in Christ. You have made the Sabbath, an idol, and in doing so you are rejecting Christ when you cast away the truth and simply call it "a person" and don't even know it.

14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Hebrews 4 establishes a new day. TODAY. That is abiding in Jesus and He in you 24/7/365, as every day is TODAY.

Even Sunday was not a law, as the Amish call it the Sabbath. That is just as ignorant. From the earliest Christians they called Sunday, the Lord's Day. Not by law, but by love.

 

[Button]

The ten commandments are a synopsis/summary of the moral law. The principles they express are found throughout the Mosaic law.

Here we can find the ten commandments elsewhere in the Mosaic covenant:

[Exodus 20:3 KJV] "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."............This commandment is also found here..........[Deuteronomy 6:14 KJV] "Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which [are] round about you;"

[Exodus 20:4 KJV] "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:".......This commandment can also be found here..........[Leviticus 19:4 KJV] "Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I [am] the LORD your God."

[Exodus 20:7 KJV] "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.".........This is also found here..........[Leviticus 19:12 KJV] "And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I [am] the LORD."

[Exodus 20:8 KJV] "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.".........This is also found here........[Exodus 31:14 KJV] "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

[Exodus 20:12 KJV] "Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.".........This also found here.........[Leviticus 19:3 KJV] "Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I [am] the LORD your God."

[Exodus 20:13 KJV] "Thou shalt not kill.".........This can be found here........[Exodus 21:14 KJV] "But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die."

[Exodus 20:14 KJV] "Thou shalt not commit adultery."........This is also found here.........[Leviticus 18:20 KJV] "Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her."

[Exodus 20:15 KJV] "Thou shalt not steal."........This is also found here.......[Leviticus 19:11 KJV] "Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another."

[Exodus 20:16 KJV] "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.".......This is also found here as well.........[Leviticus 19:11 KJV] "Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another."

[Exodus 20:17 KJV] "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's."..........This verse conveys not to desire what is prohibited..........[Deuteronomy 7:25 KJV] "The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold [that is] on them, nor take [it] unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it [is] an abomination to the LORD thy God."

Paul, in his epistles, reflects all the ten commandments except sabbath keeping, which demonstrates that the ten commandments apply to us as well.

I think what confuses some is the label,Mosaic Covenant.

Moses received the message. The laws,Covenant, is God's. Eternally.

 

[Adventageous]

i to think Paul is a strong possibility but cant know for certain

The same 'position' could then be taken for nearly all of the OT and NT books. If one desires to remain in doubt, doubt they shall have on all of it. Do you believe Mark wrote the Gospel of Mark? If so, you have the same evidence for that as one has for Hebrews.

 

[Adventageous]

You did here:
[08.] [Exo. 20:15] Rom. 2:21..........I gave surrounding verses
[07.] [Exo. 20:14] Rom. 13:8-10;
[08.] [Exo. 20:15] Eph. 4:28

Did you read the words, "in the 4th commandment section"? I can see you are not reading my responses carefully.

 

[Adventageous]

I wouldnt be threatened if Jesus or Paul kept the sabbath but no verses expound it. Jesus could keep the sabbath because he fulfilled the law. Paul could have kept it because he was a devout Jew and wouldnt want to offend the Jews. To say so would be an assumption however

Do you think the 7th day the Sabbath is / was only for Jews? What scripture would you produce for that if you did?

 

[Adventageous]

Ask yourself, how can you keep the 7th day Sabbath except by the letter?

Romans 7:14. "the law is spiritual", and can only be kept in the Spirit, and in so doing, the entire letter will be fulfilled to the letter. Thus a life without sinning in that capacity. A person cannot keep the the law by the Spirit and violate the letter. The Spirit is what brings forth the letter (spoken word, for out of the abundance of the heart of God, His mouth spoke).

Ask yourself, how can you keep the commandment of "Thou shalt not kill / murder" without keeping it to the letter by the Spirit?