Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[David in NJ]

You didn't answer who the thief is that wants to destroy. It's satan. satan wants to destroy so naturally he is the destroyer. satan has many names and titles, and Apollyon and Abaddon are just two out of many. None of satan's angels are ever named IMO.

Just now took my dogs outside for their last walk of the night.

The Holy Spirit reminded me so that HE can remind you = All the angels have names = Isaiah 40:26 , Psalm 147:4

To whom then will you compare Me
That I would be his equal?” says the Holy One.
Raise your eyes on high
And see who has created these stars,
The One who brings out their multitude by number,
He calls them all by name;
Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power,
Not one of them is missing.

Praise the Lord!
For it is good to sing praises to our God;
For it is pleasant, and praise is beautiful.
The Lord builds up Jerusalem;
He gathers together the outcasts of Israel.
He heals the brokenhearted
And binds up their wounds.
He counts the number of the stars;
He calls them all by name.

 

[WPM]

EXACTLY the point made by JESUS in John 8:44

JESUS is always directing us back to Genesis

There is no Apollyon in Genesis

The Serpent is in Genesis and he is identified by JESUS in the Gospel as Satan and in Revelation 20:1-3

All fallen angels and demons are liars, thieves that have come to ensare, kill and destroy.

IMO = Apollyon is a specific angel with a specific task in Revelation ch9

i have searched the scriptures in my mind/knowledge base of 40 years and i will also give more study in the scriptures on this.

After prayer and study and prayer, if the Holy Spirit quickens me to Apollyon being Satan, i will come back to you and say = Thank You Brother

i wish all brothers/sisters in Christ would do the same

Satan has many names that describe his vile character. Apollyon and Abaddon are just 2 of many. These names suitably describe our arch-enemy and his character.

Again, the issue you ducked around is that there is one king in the kingdom of darkness - Satan. You are trying to invent some imaginary king who doesn't exist in that kingdom.

The question you avoid is: how did this satanic spiritual “king … Abaddon [or] … Apollyon” and his demons [scorpion-like locusts] get locked up in “the bottomless pit” in Revelation 9 and what biblical event actually caused this?

 

[WPM]

EXACTLY the point made by JESUS in John 8:44

JESUS is always directing us back to Genesis

There is no Apollyon in Genesis

The Serpent is in Genesis and he is identified by JESUS in the Gospel as Satan and in Revelation 20:1-3

All fallen angels and demons are liars, thieves that have come to ensare, kill and destroy.

IMO = Apollyon is a specific angel with a specific task in Revelation ch9

i have searched the scriptures in my mind/knowledge base of 40 years and i will also give more study in the scriptures on this.

After prayer and study and prayer, if the Holy Spirit quickens me to Apollyon being Satan, i will come back to you and say = Thank You Brother

i wish all brothers/sisters in Christ would do the same

Revelation 9:11: “had a king over them, which is the angel of the abyss [Gr. abussos], whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

In piecing the apocalyptic jigsaw together we find that this dark spiritual dungeon currently has a king over it. This gives us insight into the fact that the abyss must be speaking of a kingdom. Moreover, that kingdom is imprisoned in its own darkness. The fact that there is a king currently ruling tells us that the abyss must contain a kingdom. The word kingdom means ‘king with a domain’. Its meaning includes the territory and the people over whom the King rules and exercises sovereign authority. The term also includes the legislation and laws that administrate that kingdom. The word employed in the New Testament for ‘kingdom’ is the Greek word basileia denoting ‘sovereignty, royal power, kingship and dominion’. A kingdom must therefore have (1) a king – a head, (2) a domain to rule over – subjects and territory, (3) a structure of administration – ethics, rules and laws which govern it.

We all know, there are only two spiritual realms in conflict on this earth – the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. Whilst these two kingdoms manifest through physical individuals they are invisible empires. The kingdom being described which “the destroyer” rules over is assuredly not the kingdom of God. The elect angels are never located in the abyss but rather in heavenly splendour. Therefore, we must be speaking of the dark restrained invisible spiritual realm of the devil’s kingdom.

Who is this king (or destroyer) that currently reigns over “the bottomless pit” or abyss? We know from the description given of this king that we are looking at an angel. In fact, the king is called: “the angel of the abyss.” There is no doubt that Abaddon / Apollyon are referring to someone within the demonic realm. This begs an instant question, who is the king that rules over that dark realm?

Strong’s Concordance gives us help, describing Apollyon (623) as “a destroyer (i.e. Satan).” Moreover, when we examine the root Greek word apollumi (Strong’s 622) we find it means “to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively.” The word is variously translated destroy, die, lose, mar, perish in the King James Version. There seems little doubt that Apollyon is referring to the devil. Time after time in Scripture we see Satan being described in such a destructive way. The name and characteristics of this being seem to identify him with that great enemy of the Church – the devil.

Revelation 9:1-3 shows the abyss occupied now by Satan's minions prior to the last trumpet. It also shows Satan (Abaddon/Apollyon) there as well. Remember Abaddon/Apollyon is a king. This king is obviously head over a kingdom (that is what king’s rule over) so what kingdom or domain and subjects and territory does he rule over? This is no natural king but a spiritual king. If it is a spiritual king it must either be Christ or Satan – the only two rulers over the two conflicting spiritual kingdoms. We know that Christ is not on earth since His ascent and definitely not in the abyss. There can surely be no doubt that this is Satan.

Strong’s Concordance gives us help, describing Apollyon (623) as “a destroyer (i.e. Satan).” Moreover, when we examine the root Greek word apollumi (Strong’s 622) we find it means “to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively.” The word is variously translated destroy, die, lose, mar, perish in the King James Version. There seems little doubt that Apollyon is referring to the devil. Time after time in Scripture we see Satan being described in such a destructive way. The name and characteristics of this being seem to identify him with that great enemy of the Church – the devil.

The New Testament employs the Greek root word for apollyon to describe the works of Satan the destroyer. 1Corinthians 10:9-10 says, “Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed [Gr. apollumi] of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed [Gr. apollumi] of the destroyer
[Gr. olothreutēs a ruiner].”

The same word is also used in John 10:10, in the familiar passage where Christ exposes the nature and aims of devil, saying, “The thief (Satan) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy [Gr. apollumi].”

Any where we see Satan mentioned or find him described, his nature is always to destroy. That is why his name is the same in every language (Greek and Hebrew included).

1 Peter 5:8 says that he is “your adversary” and that he appears “as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” Jesus said in John 8:44 that “He was a murderer from the beginning.” Ezekiel 28:14-19 declares of him that merchandise has “filled the midst of thee with violence” and that he is “a terror” to all peoples.

We cannot help but conclude, the angel (or star) that descends in Revelation 9:1-3 is given immediate authority over Satan (Abaddon / Apollyon) and his angels (symbolic represented in this passage as locust/scorpion-type creatures), who in turn are presently in the abyss realm. The one major difficulty for Premils here is that this passage expressly locates Satan and his minions in the abyss prior to the Coming of the Lord, as Amillennialism believes and not after that as Premillennialism mistakenly argues.

 

[ewq1938]

Just now took my dogs outside for their last walk of the night.

The Holy Spirit reminded me so that HE can remind you = All the angels have names = Isaiah 40:26 , Psalm 147:4

To whom then will you compare Me
That I would be his equal?” says the Holy One.
Raise your eyes on high
And see who has created these stars,
The One who brings out their multitude by number,
He calls them all by name;
Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power,
Not one of them is missing.

Praise the Lord!
For it is good to sing praises to our God;
For it is pleasant, and praise is beautiful.
The Lord builds up Jerusalem;
He gathers together the outcasts of Israel.
He heals the brokenhearted
And binds up their wounds.
He counts the number of the stars;
He calls them all by name.

I said satan's angels are not named in scripture, not that they don't have names.

 

[Zao is life]

I wonder if some interpreters fully understand that passage? I only quoted verse 3-7, yet verses 8-18 are to be considered as well in order to better grasp what is being taught here.

In the verses above, this comes first--the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. The remedy is then this---the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Except that does the lost no good if this is the case---if our gospel be hid. Therefore, satan doesn't need to be bound in order to spread the gospel of Christ. Our gospel needs to not be hidden in order to spread the gospel of Christ.

Therefore, the saved have the responsibility for spreading the gospel of Christ. satan isn't bound so that the gospel of Christ can spread. Obviously, satan is not bound when he is blinding the minds of those that believe not. How does that make sense that satan is bound so that he can't prevent the spread of the gospel of Christ, while he continues to blind the minds of those that believe not?

I had to re-read before I caught the importance - and truth - of what you are saying - right there, Paul is saying that Satan is not bound - because he is able to hide the light of the gospel in the minds of them that do not believe:

2 Corinthians 4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Jesus said,

"This is the condemnation (of those who do not believe on the Son of God):

The light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:19-20).

Hiding from God began in Eden:

Genesis 3
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Notice how God knew what Adam had done (and that he was hiding from God), nevertheless GOD CALLED HIM ANYWAY?

The Word of God did not ever lack the power to break the power of Satan's lie over the minds of human beings, as though darkness could overcome light (John 1:5).

On the contrary, since the days of Adam and Eve, human beings have always had the choice of whether to believe the Word of God, or continue to hide from God and hence come under the power of Satan's lies.

The assertion of Amillennialists that Satan's lies (darkness) needed to be bound in order for the gospel to spread is implying that the power of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit would be somehow diminished if Satan were not bound, which is blasphemous because it makes Satan the opposite of God in power

- and that's besides doing away with human choice, as though unless Satan is bound no human being can choose to hear the calling of Word of God in the gospel - in which case the criteria by which Jesus says those who do not believe will be judged, would be unfair and unjust.

 

[David in NJ]

I said satan's angels are not named in scripture, not that they don't have names.

OK - thank you for the update

That is one thing i never really looked for in scripture = the names of angels under Satan

However, we do know why they are not named.

For now, the evidence in Revelation and the Gospel and the OT indicates Apollyon as a separate falling star/angel from Satan.

Apollyon appears in Rev 9 for a specific purpose, whereas Rev 12 is when Satan and his angels are cast to the earth.

 

[Zao is life]

OK - thank you for the update

That is one thing i never really looked for in scripture = the names of angels under Satan

However, we do know why they are not named.

For now, the evidence in Revelation and the Gospel and the OT indicates Apollyon as a separate falling star/angel from Satan.

Apollyon appears in Rev 9 for a specific purpose, whereas Rev 12 is when Satan and his angels are cast to the earth.

Actually I always took the fallen star given the keys to the abyss as Satan until reading your posts about it, and I think you're correct

* The destroying angel in the Revelation is not able to harm those with the seal of God on their foreheads.
* The destroying angel in the Exodus was not able to harm the firstborn of those who had the blood of the lamb on their doorposts.
* Satan's enemy is the saints. He will get the beast ascended from the abyss to war against the saints (Revelation 13:7).

There's more going on in Revelation 9 than most believe.

Thanks...

THE WORD OF GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS, including the interpretations of man.

I also notice that whereas the KJV says "I saw a star fall" the NETfree says "I saw a star that had fallen" so that leaves me questioning if the translators of the NETfree see the tense of the Greek word as past-tense. It would be interesting to know.

Revelation 9:1 Interlinear: And the fifth messenger did sound, and I saw a star out of the heaven having fallen to the earth, and there was given to it the key of the pit of the abyss,

 

[Simple Dan]

By all means, let's. Let's examine it again and again and again and again, and just for good measure, we will reopen the topic in another thread and examine it a few more thousand times. Because rightly dividing the word of truth is essential to our proper understanding and placement in Gods holy time frame of events, here's a chart for ya, here's another 666 copy and pasted passages of scripture which only I who have been blessed and gifted by God Himself to correctly interpret and understand. Please allow me to share with you for my glorification, oops, I mean your edification. Because you require reproof and correction, and I am just the guy to give it to you.

When the Son of Man returns....
I surely hope for the sake of most of this crowd, He doesn't find you doing what you are currently doing.

Wake from your slumber, cast down your idols, lament your sins before a just and holy God, and get to work. The fields are ripe for the harvest, where are the laborers? Why have you hidden your talent? Why were you not about your father's business? Why have you neglected your prayer life? Why are you here arguing about hell, when your next door neighbors house is burning down around him?

 

[David in NJ]

Actually I always took the fallen star given the keys to the abyss as Satan until reading your posts about it, and I think you're correct

* The destroying angel in the Revelation is not able to harm those with the seal of God on their foreheads.
* The destroying angel in the Exodus was not able to harm the firstborn of those who had the blood of the lamb on their doorposts.
* Satan's enemy is the saints. He will get the beast ascended from the abyss to war against the saints (Revelation 13:7). The locusts of Revelation 9 are not able to harm the saints.

There's more going on in Revelation 9 than most believe.

Thanks...

THE WORD OF GOD ABOVE ALL THINGS, including the interpretations of man.

I also notice that whereas the KJV says "I saw a star fall" the NETfree says "I saw a star that had fallen" so that leaves me questioning if the translators of the NETfree see the tense of the Greek word as past-tense. It would be interesting to know.

Revelation 9:1 Interlinear: And the fifth messenger did sound, and I saw a star out of the heaven having fallen to the earth, and there was given to it the key of the pit of the abyss,

i always keep my heart and mind OPEN to the WORD = all of it

 

[David in NJ]

By all means, let's. Let's examine it again and again and again and again, and just for good measure, we will reopen the topic in another thread and examine it a few more thousand times. Because rightly dividing the word of truth is essential to our proper understanding and placement in Gods holy time frame of events, here's a chart for ya, here's another 666 copy and pasted passages of scripture which only I who have been blessed and gifted by God Himself to correctly interpret and understand. Please allow me to share with you for my glorification, oops, I mean your edification. Because you require reproof and correction, and I am just the guy to give it to you.

When the Son of Man returns....
I surely hope for the sake of most of this crowd, He doesn't find you doing what you are currently doing.

Wake from your slumber, cast down your idols, lament your sins before a just and holy God, and get to work. The fields are ripe for the harvest, where are the laborers? Why have you hidden your talent? Why were you not about your father's business? Why have you neglected your prayer life? Why are you here arguing about hell, when your next door neighbors house is burning down around him?

Good word but not perfect = but a very Good word which i accept

Just a reminder: Ephesians 4:11-16 = some of us are doing the Will of our FATHER in Heaven

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

 

[Zao is life]

i always keep my heart and mind OPEN to the WORD = all of it

I never have a problem having my understanding corrected when the Word shows me my understanding cannot be correct (or even if it shows me my understanding may not be correct).

Which is the difference between believing the Word of God vs believing in a theology that reflects a particular interpretation of the Word of God.

 

[David in NJ]

By all means, let's. Let's examine it again and again and again and again, and just for good measure, we will reopen the topic in another thread and examine it a few more thousand times. Because rightly dividing the word of truth is essential to our proper understanding and placement in Gods holy time frame of events, here's a chart for ya, here's another 666 copy and pasted passages of scripture which only I who have been blessed and gifted by God Himself to correctly interpret and understand. Please allow me to share with you for my glorification, oops, I mean your edification. Because you require reproof and correction, and I am just the guy to give it to you.

When the Son of Man returns....
I surely hope for the sake of most of this crowd, He doesn't find you doing what you are currently doing.

Wake from your slumber, cast down your idols, lament your sins before a just and holy God, and get to work. The fields are ripe for the harvest, where are the laborers? Why have you hidden your talent? Why were you not about your father's business? Why have you neglected your prayer life? Why are you here arguing about hell, when your next door neighbors house is burning down around him?

BIG Thank You for Today's - WAKE UP call from @Simple Dan, our Brother in CHRIST

Yes my brother, we are praying for our neighbors and relatives and friends and whoever the Spirit leads to us or us to them.

Counting on you Dan for Prayer Support

#1 - My Jewish Father-in-law lives with us - not saved, his name is Lee

#2 - We live in a community with many Jewish people with two synagogues

#3 - The local rabbis come to our house at least a few times a week = i share the Messiah from Torah and OT to them
Recently rabbi Samuel received Yeshua as his Messiah and is reading the Gospels

Please pray for Asher, who is the head/lead rabbi

#4 - i have Jewish friends and neighbors = my wife and i are praying for revival upon the Jewish/Gentile community here

 

[Simple Dan]

Good word but not perfect = but a very Good word which i accept

Just a reminder: Ephesians 4:11-16 = some of us are doing the Will of our FATHER in Heaven

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

So which one are you Dave? The Apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the teacher? Are you equipping the saints? Is this your ministry? Done much edifying lately? How's that flat earth thread coming along? Seen any changed minds over there, made any converts lately?

Its an addiction. Emotional, mental, and spiritual masturbation. That's all it is, that's all your doing. Repent, your family needs you. God might actually have some work of His own that requires your attention.

Unless the Lord builds the house Dave, unless the Lord builds the house. This is not His mission field. Everyone here is firmly convinced that they and they alone have the whole truth and nothing but the truth, including you brother. You won't be changing any hearts or minds around here. Repent. You've left your first love, admit it, lament over it, pray about it, and plead with your loving Father to set you free from this madness. Take up your keyboard daily and follow me, oh wait, that's not what He said was it?
I know its hard bro, I know the people you love are hurting, I know this is a kind of escape for you. But its no escape, its a trap. I pray the Lord will open up your heart and mind to this reality, so that you might actually be used by Him in some meaningful way. While there's still some time left to do so.

No need to respond. God is speaking to your heart. Stop grieving the Holy Spirit and submit to His perfect will.

Love you brother. You're in my prayers. I'm really out this time, I've got some repenting of my own to do, starting with this particular unholy addiction called the christian forum.

 

[David in NJ]

So which one are you Dave? The Apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the teacher? Are you equipping the saints? Is this your ministry? Done much edifying lately? How's that flat earth thread coming along? Seen any changed minds over there, made any converts lately?

Its an addiction. Emotional, mental, and spiritual masturbation. That's all it is, that's all your doing. Repent, your family needs you. God might actually have some work of His own that requires your attention.

Unless the Lord builds the house Dave, unless the Lord builds the house. This is not His mission field. Everyone here is firmly convinced that they and they alone have the whole truth and nothing but the truth, including you brother. You won't be changing any hearts or minds around here. Repent. You've left your first love, admit it, lament over it, pray about it, and plead with your loving Father to set you free from this madness. Take up your keyboard daily and follow me, oh wait, that's not what He said was it?
I know its hard bro, I know the people you love are hurting, I know this is a kind of escape for you. But its no escape, its a trap. I pray the Lord will open up your heart and mind to this reality, so that you might actually be used by Him in some meaningful way. While there's still some time left to do so.

No need to respond. God is speaking to your heart. Stop grieving the Holy Spirit and submit to His perfect will.

Love you brother. You're in my prayers. I'm really out this time, I've got some repenting of my own to do, starting with this particular unholy addiction called the christian forum.

I am who IAM called me to be

HE filled me with His Holy Spirit for His purposes = whether or not the 'christians' open their hearts = that is God's doing

KEEP in your mind = JESUS was mocked, ridiculed and hated = how much more will they do to us who Hold to TRUTH

Let's remember His words

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

 

[Zao is life]

BIG Thank You for Today's - WAKE UP call from @Simple Dan, our Brother in CHRIST

Yes my brother, we are praying for our neighbors and relatives and friends and whoever the Spirit leads to us or us to them.

Counting on you Dan for Prayer Support

#1 - My Jewish Father-in-law lives with us - not saved, his name is Lee

#2 - We live in a community with many Jewish people with two synagogues

#3 - The local rabbis come to our house at least a few times a week = i share the Messiah from Torah and OT to them

Recently rabbi Samuel received Yeshua as his Messiah and is reading the Gospels

Fantastic. Praise God for him. Bet the angels are still shouting for joy (Luke 15:10).

Please pray for Asher, who is the head/lead rabbi

#4 - i have Jewish friends and neighbors = my wife and i are praying for revival upon the Jewish/Gentile community here

Have prayed now.

 

[Zao is life]

So which one are you Dave? The Apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the teacher? Are you equipping the saints? Is this your ministry? Done much edifying lately? How's that flat earth thread coming along? Seen any changed minds over there, made any converts lately?

Its an addiction. Emotional, mental, and spiritual masturbation. That's all it is, that's all your doing. Repent, your family needs you. God might actually have some work of His own that requires your attention.

Unless the Lord builds the house Dave, unless the Lord builds the house. This is not His mission field. Everyone here is firmly convinced that they and they alone have the whole truth and nothing but the truth, including you brother. You won't be changing any hearts or minds around here. Repent. You've left your first love, admit it, lament over it, pray about it, and plead with your loving Father to set you free from this madness. Take up your keyboard daily and follow me, oh wait, that's not what He said was it?
I know its hard bro, I know the people you love are hurting, I know this is a kind of escape for you. But its no escape, its a trap. I pray the Lord will open up your heart and mind to this reality, so that you might actually be used by Him in some meaningful way. While there's still some time left to do so.

No need to respond. God is speaking to your heart. Stop grieving the Holy Spirit and submit to His perfect will.

Love you brother. You're in my prayers. I'm really out this time, I've got some repenting of my own to do, starting with this particular unholy addiction called the christian forum.

Your criticism is valid but without realzing it you've already become guilty of the same things you've been angrily chastizing others about - key word being anger - though in my case, some of your criticism is valid (I'm not proud to say that, just confessing it to you).

I don't believe I have the whole truth and I alone have the whole truth - which is why I'm still at this forum. I learn something from time to time - like I learned here today from @David in NJ.

Always love understanding the Word of God better and when that understanding comes through another brother, even better.

Welcome to the forums. Hope you stay here long enough to be an example of how disagreement should be done. Long enough to make everyone an expert on how disagreement should be done - just by your example.

 

[Zao is life]

I am who IAM called me to be

HE filled me with His Holy Spirit for His purposes = whether or not the 'christians' open their hearts = that is God's doing

KEEP in your mind = JESUS was mocked, ridiculed and hated = how much more will they do to us who Hold to TRUTH

Let's remember His words

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

Self-righteousness is not so simple after all:

So which one are you Dave? The Apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the teacher? Are you equipping the saints? Is this your ministry? Done much edifying lately? How's that flat earth thread coming along? Seen any changed minds over there, made any converts lately?

Its an addiction. Emotional, mental, and spiritual masturbation. That's all it is, that's all your doing. Repent, your family needs you. God might actually have some work of His own that requires your attention.

Unless the Lord builds the house Dave, unless the Lord builds the house. This is not His mission field. Everyone here is firmly convinced that they and they alone have the whole truth and nothing but the truth, including you brother. You won't be changing any hearts or minds around here. Repent. You've left your first love, admit it, lament over it, pray about it, and plead with your loving Father to set you free from this madness. Take up your keyboard daily and follow me, oh wait, that's not what He said was it?
I know its hard bro, I know the people you love are hurting, I know this is a kind of escape for you. But its no escape, its a trap. I pray the Lord will open up your heart and mind to this reality, so that you might actually be used by Him in some meaningful way. While there's still some time left to do so.

No need to respond. God is speaking to your heart. Stop grieving the Holy Spirit and submit to His perfect will.

Love you brother. You're in my prayers. I'm really out this time, I've got some repenting of my own to do, starting with this particular unholy addiction called the christian forum.

 

[David in NJ]

Your criticism is valid but without realzing it you've already become guilty of the same things you've been angrily chastizing others about - key word being anger - though in my case, some of your criticism is valid (I'm not proud to say that, just confessing it to you).

I don't believe I have the whole truth and I alone have the whole truth - which is why I'm still at this forum. I learn something from time to time - like I learned here today from @David in NJ.

Always love understanding the Word of God better and when that understanding comes through another brother, even better.

Welcome to the forums. Hope you stay here long enough to be an example of how disagreement should be done. Long enough to make everyone an expert on how disagreement should be done - just by your example.

Same from you my Brother = i have been BLESSED from your posts as well as we are called to do =

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" - Proverbs

 

[David in NJ]

Self-righteousness is not so simple after all:

i accept the encouragment and slight rebuke from Dan

You are welcome to encourage me as well should i go astray or become puffed up

 

[WPM]

1. Revelation 12 states only that Satan was cast out of heaven with his angels when Christ ascended and was cast to the earth, and then talks about him going to war first against the woman who had given birth to the Child, then against the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Neither of those entities Satan went to war against were, or are in the abyss.

This is followed by him giving the beast ascended out of the abyss his seat, his power, and great authority in Revelation 13

- and there are no chapter divisions between what is written in chapters 12 and 13 in the original text. They were added by a scholar many hundreds of years later.

Revelation 12 covers the beginning of the millennium, after the first resurrection of Christ. It basically focuses in on the after-effects of the resurrection.

Revelation 12 confirms that this victorious scene (described in Revelation 20) relates to Christ’s eternal victory at the cross and His glorious ascent to the throne. Revelation 12:5-11 supports: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out [Gr. ballo], that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out [Gr. ballo] into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down [Gr. ballo], which accused them before our God day and night. And they (the Church of Jesus Christ) overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

When was Satan cast out?

The answer is in the text. It is very simple and unambiguous: when He ascended up to heaven! When the “man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron … was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

A careful comparison of both passages confirms that they closely parallel and perfectly correlate with each other. Revelation 12:9-13 says, speaking of the tremendous ramifications that Calvary had upon Satan. It also demonstrates the heavenly impact that Christ’s glorious victory over Satan secured. Both Revelation 20 and Revelation 12 chart the casting down of Satan from heaven in order to facilitate the global spread of the Gospel to the previously blinded nations.

The term “cast out” is taken from the Greek word ballo meaning to eject, drive out or send away. This word gives us some idea of the deep lasting work that was wrought upon Satan as a result of the cross. This reading seems to strongly support the idea that the accusing place that Satan once held in heaven before Calvary has now been totally destroyed and his area of influence on earth significantly limited.

Being banished from heaven he now operates on earth in a restricted manner with a lot less influence than he previously had. Satan was effectively unseated from his former global deception over the Gentiles, allowing the Gospel to spread forth.

It is not insignificant that the exact same Greek word is used in Revelation 20:3 as Revelation 12 to describe the restriction placed upon Satan from the cross. Revelation 20:3 says, “he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast (or ballo Strong’s 906) him into the abyss.” Being banished from heaven into the deep meant the playing field had drastically changed for Satan.

In this reading we have an explicit outline of the nature and standing of the devil prior to his eviction from his accusing seat in heaven. At that time, he “accused” the elect of God in heaven “before our God day and night.” The accused here were overwhelmingly the Israeli believers – the only country privileged on a national scale with the Gospel. On earth, the devil ruled the Gentile nations unchallenged, deceiving “the whole world” (Revelation 12:9). The Gospel influence was completely curtailed among the nations by “the god of this world” (who is Satan) who “blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them” (2 Corinthians 4:4). The door of opportunity was tightly closed to the Gentile people.

Satan was thus aptly described before his eviction as he “which deceiveth the whole world” (Revelation 12:9). This referred to the remit of his control. However, after Satan was banished from heaven a herald suitably announced “now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down.” Salvation had now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s ascent and victory safely secured that. As a result, the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism. The text testifies: “they (the Church of Jesus Christ) overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

If someone is saved they are a walking living ongoing testimony of the sin-defeating devil-defeating power of the cross. Even the weakest believer today overcomes Satan through a life of faith. This is phenomenal! Calvary is our means of achieving that. Christ came to set us free, deliver us from the bondage and penalty of sin (which was eternal punishment), reconcile us to a holy God, give us a liberated life, and give us a home in heaven forever.

We can be absolutely sure: the devil is fully aware of the power of the cross because he is still paying a heavy penalty. If we could only grasp the scope and power of the cross then we would be in continual victory. The devil definitely does not want us to get a full revelation of the cross and what it has secured for you.

The nations of the world that were once blinded before the cross have now have been opened up to the light and truth of the Gospel - and there is nothing Satan can do to stop it. Satan (the accuser) has been soundly defeated by Christ. His firing pin has been taken away. He has been shackled in regard to his previous widespread spiritual power over the Gentiles. He is now powerless and impotent to stop the people of God advancing the Gospel commission in the will of God. His power over the saints has been demolished through the blood of Christ. That is why he has no more access to heaven and no power to accuse the elect.

Whilst Satan still carries the power to deceive individuals, he has lost the ability to keep the Gentiles (ethnos) as a collective whole blinded. Scripture after Scripture in the New Testament proves that.

It is His aim to hide what was secured at the cross in case believers and unbelievers will get fully liberated and do damage to the kingdom of darkness.

• He is already judged – his fate is sealed.
• False accuser cast down.
• No more access to heaven.
• Knows his time is short.
• Doesn’t have anything on us anymore. Past, present, and future sin has been paid for.
• The militant Church is a resistance movement against Satan and his lies as they spread the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ.
• Satan’s playing field - the Gentile nations - is enlightened.
• The Gentiles are now without excuse.
• Believers now overcome Satan by the power of the blood of Jesus made personal in their life.