Is it possible to lose salvation?

[LoveYeshua]

""Are we just limited to Paul?""
Acts 9:15 Christ chose Paul to the Gentiles
Acts 15:6-25 The 12 confirmed the role of Paul
Gal 2:7-9 Paul's role again confirmed
Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 Paul confirms his role
Gal 1:11-12 Christ gave Paul a UNIQUE Gospel.
Paul's Gospel applies to > Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11
After Paul was commissioned, what verses do you believe teach that the 12 or Hebrews has the same authority to teach Salvation to the believers spoken of in Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11 ?

This idea is mistaken because it places authority where Jesus never placed it. Jesus alone has full authority. He Himself said, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18). No prophet, no apostle, and no later teacher ever claimed this about themselves. Authority over salvation, judgment, forgiveness, life, and resurrection belongs only to Jesus.

Jesus alone is the way to eternal life. He declared, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6). Salvation comes by coming to Him, believing Him, and following Him. Eternal life is tied directly to Jesus’ words, not to anyone who came after Him. He warned, “He who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life” (John 5:24). This makes it clear that no human, no matter how well-intentioned, can substitute for Him or open the way to the Father.

Jesus personally chose the Twelve apostles. They walked with Him, learned directly from Him, were taught face to face, and were sent by Him. He told them, “He who hears you hears Me” (Luke 10:16). He also promised them a special place in His kingdom: “When the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Matthew 19:28). Their role is unique and foundational.

This special status is confirmed in the vision of the New Jerusalem. John writes, “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” (Revelation 21:14). Paul’s name is not there, confirming that the eternal authority and foundational teaching rest with the Twelve whom Jesus personally appointed.

Paul was not among the Twelve. He did not walk with Jesus during His earthly ministry, did not receive teaching directly from Him in the same way, and was not promised a throne in the kingdom. Even Paul himself pointed others to Christ, saying, “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ” (1 Corinthians 11:1). The order is clear: Christ first, the Twelve apostles second, and all others afterward. Relying on anyone other than Jesus or the 12 He personally appointed can lead people away from the truth.

Jesus said plainly, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life” (John 10:27–28). Eternal life comes from hearing Jesus, believing Him, and following Him. There is no higher authority, no replacement, and no other way. The New Jerusalem confirms it eternally: the Twelve apostles chosen by Christ are foundational, (rev 21:14) and the names of the others do not appear because only Jesus and those He appointed hold that divine authority. Anyone who shifts focus away from this is turning away from the path Jesus Himself made clear.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Nobody was discussing the way to be saved, the debate is about "losing ones salvation". I have asked several members to find a single verse in the bible that says that a saved person can lose their salvation.

I've had many replies with all kinds of verses, speaking about unrelated topics, but not a single verse suggesting that one can lose their salvation. It shouldn't be that hard to find one if it exists, but some here have been searching desperately for a long time, and they have found zero verses after all their effort.

So instead of being corrected and admitting they were mistaken, they resort to personal attacks and slander. I love being corrected, because it edifies and enlightens me, but those who are not interested in the truth of the gospel have no such desire.

You were given many you just ignore them? Jesus Himself warned that salvation is not automatic and can be lost through rejection or failure to continue in Him. He said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21). Salvation requires ongoing obedience and relationship with Him.

He also said, “But he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 10:22). Endurance implies that someone can start the journey but fail to remain faithful. These verses show that following Jesus faithfully is essential, and turning away or refusing His will can result in loss of salvation.

Many more verses were given to you also. Here is a parable of Jesus

Build Your House on the Rock​

Luk 6:46 Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?

Luk 6:47 I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them:

Luk 6:48 He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

Luk 6:49 But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction!”

 

[GodsGrace]

They are theological terms, just like Trinity. The objective salvation is what Christ accomplished by His Incarnation, that is, He became man.
So, first: The doctrine of salvation is rooted in creation. We must know what man is or was in order to understand salvation. The essential understanding is that man was restored from the fall. Restored to fulful the created purpose of man's existence, to be eternally in union with God.

Gen 1:26-27. We are created in the image of God and after His likeness. Man is created free, communal, and unique. One of the most basic underlying premises of scripture is that man was created free. That he possesses a rational soul, free from coercion.
Created in His image entails freedom, uniqueness, and is relational. There is no necessity for God to create. He did it at His good pleasure. Man was also called to grow into the likeness of God. It has a dynamism, it is not static. This is confirmed by Paul in Rom 8:29 and Gal 4:19.

Being created into God's image means we are persons. We are not individuals, we do not stand alone. To be a person means we have those same qualities as God, free, free to grow into his likeness with our free will. To share in His divine nature by grace, to become like Him. As II Pet 1:4 states, we were created to share in the Divine Nature. The redemption of mankind is to restore man's ability and capability to become by grace, to be transformed into the likeness of God. Whether we fulfill our human vocation and live according to God's image or whether we reject God is up to each of us.

Though man disobeyed and fell, God also provided redemption. God was not willing to allow His creation to simply dissolve back into nothingness after the fall. The Revelation we have in the OT is God's message and the preparation of the coming of the Messiah. God sent His Only Son, Christ, to reconcile the world unto himself, II Cor 5:14-19. Because Christ is the eternal image of the Father, He alone is able to renew the image of God in man. Col 1:15-20; John 5:28-29; Rom 5:12, Rom 5:14-19; Rom 11:32; I Cor 15:12-22; II Tim 1:10, Heb 2:9 Heb 2:14-17, Col 1:20, I John 2:2, John 1:29, John 6:39. Texts that corroborate this view are: Acts 24:15; Acts 23:6; I Cor 15:52, Eph 1:10; John 5:28, John 12: 32, I Tim 4:10, Is 26:19, Dan 12:2, Luke 2:30-32, Rev 20:12-13. They also show the universality of Christ's redemptive work. John 4:42, I John 4:14.

Christ's work on the Cross is solely Grace, man has nothing to do with it, it is totally objective. See: John 1:13, I Pet 1:23, James 1:18, Gal 4:4, Heb 2:11, Rom 9:16.

That is the objective part. Why did God do this. So He could have a relationship with His Creature, mutual love. Free to choose and remain. That relationship cannot be imposed in any way.
You have conflated both of these aspects which then makes is possible to twist scripture to say that even subjective salvation is a forced implementation of a relationship.
One's personal salvation is all about man using the gift of life given by Christ to redeem man. Whether he accepts and believes or rejects Rom 1:14-22. Christ's call to repentance is up to man. Every human being has the capability to respond to God. God calls, man responds, His choice and also his responsibility as all men will be judged by that choice. Rom 2:6-11.

You are correct that all of salvation belongs to God. He created us in His Image to be responsive to Him However, it subjective is all about how you choose to use that gift and privilege.

Before Christ came this was the status of mankind. Since He has come, we are celebrating that event in this advent season, all men have been redeemed, saved from that enslavement

Your conflation shows brightly in this context. Who were given to Christ? Col 1:20, All things, other texts above also show this. Christ draws all men, none are excluded, John 12:32. There are two verses, one you over look that separates the objective and subjective within two succeeded verses, John 6:39-40. 39 is the objective. Who was given ? All, He will raise all from the dead in the last day. However, Of all those that see and believe will have everlasting life. There is no complusion here. The responsibility to see and believe is left to individual man.

Your conflation has been shown clearly as to whom is confused about salvation.
Why would God choose some to have a relationship with Him when He desires that all men would have a relationship with Him?
What do you do with "seek and ye shall find"? Or, knock and the door shall be opened? Your theology is not consistent.

Great post and very well explained.


Some don't care to read all of scripture but only the parts that SEEM to correspond with what they believe to be correct soteriology.

If there were only 5 verses in all of the NT that spoke to soteriology....
4 SEEMED to state that salvation is UNCONDITIONALLY eternal...

and just one verse that stated that salvation CAN be lost...
it would behoove us to go back and make sure we understand the other 4 verses really well....
because the NT CANNOT contradict itself.

However, this is not even the case....
the verses presented by the OSASers do not mean what they THINK they mean...
and there are many, many verses warning us that salvation is conditional.

 

[GodsGrace]

You were given many you just ignore them? Jesus Himself warned that salvation is not automatic and can be lost through rejection or failure to continue in Him. He said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21). Salvation requires ongoing obedience and relationship with Him.

He also said, “But he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 10:22). Endurance implies that someone can start the journey but fail to remain faithful. These verses show that following Jesus faithfully is essential, and turning away or refusing His will can result in loss of salvation.

Many more verses were given to you also. Here is a parable of Jesus

Build Your House on the Rock​

Luk 6:46 Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?

Luk 6:47 I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them:

Luk 6:48 He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

Luk 6:49 But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction!”

You think I'm ever gonna get his mansion and his Maybach and his Ducati?

 

[LoveYeshua]

You think I'm ever gonna get his mansion and his Maybach and his Ducati?

Infinitely bettert han that, the book of revelations says;

The River of Life​

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

Rev 22:2 down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him.

Rev 22:4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

Rev 22:5 There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.

Blessings

 

[GodsGrace]

Infinitely bettert han that, the book of revelations says;

The River of Life​

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

Rev 22:2 down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him.

Rev 22:4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

Rev 22:5 There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.

Blessings

Yes sir.
God's gifts are the best!

 

[walter]

I have asked several members to find a single verse in the bible that says that a saved person can lose their salvation

I ask you please, are the words recorded in the New Testament, advice for any Christian to Keep in mind and observe, or is a "saved" person exempt from some of the words in the New Testament?


The Bible explains all scripture is profitable, The Bible does not say that "saved" people are immune to some scriptures.
2 Timothy 3:16
New King James Version
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

John 17:17
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Father, sanctify them by your truth, because your word is truth.”

2 Peter 1:21
Berean Standard Bible
For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 15:4
Berean Literal Bible
For whatever was written in the past was all written for our instruction, so that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures, we might have hope.

Hebrews 4:12
New Living Translation
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

1 Corinthians 10:11
English Standard Version
Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.

 

[rvmb]

This idea is mistaken because it places authority where Jesus never placed it. Jesus alone has full authority. He Himself said, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18). No prophet, no apostle, and no later teacher ever claimed this about themselves. Authority over salvation, judgment, forgiveness, life, and resurrection belongs only to Jesus.

Jesus alone is the way to eternal life. He declared, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6). Salvation comes by coming to Him, believing Him, and following Him. Eternal life is tied directly to Jesus’ words, not to anyone who came after Him. He warned, “He who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life” (John 5:24). This makes it clear that no human, no matter how well-intentioned, can substitute for Him or open the way to the Father.

Jesus personally chose the Twelve apostles. They walked with Him, learned directly from Him, were taught face to face, and were sent by Him. He told them, “He who hears you hears Me” (Luke 10:16). He also promised them a special place in His kingdom: “When the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Matthew 19:28). Their role is unique and foundational.

This special status is confirmed in the vision of the New Jerusalem. John writes, “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” (Revelation 21:14). Paul’s name is not there, confirming that the eternal authority and foundational teaching rest with the Twelve whom Jesus personally appointed.

Paul was not among the Twelve. He did not walk with Jesus during His earthly ministry, did not receive teaching directly from Him in the same way, and was not promised a throne in the kingdom. Even Paul himself pointed others to Christ, saying, “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ” (1 Corinthians 11:1). The order is clear: Christ first, the Twelve apostles second, and all others afterward. Relying on anyone other than Jesus or the 12 He personally appointed can lead people away from the truth.

Jesus said plainly, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life” (John 10:27–28). Eternal life comes from hearing Jesus, believing Him, and following Him. There is no higher authority, no replacement, and no other way. The New Jerusalem confirms it eternally: the Twelve apostles chosen by Christ are foundational, (rev 21:14) and the names of the others do not appear because only Jesus and those He appointed hold that divine authority. Anyone who shifts focus away from this is turning away from the path Jesus Himself made clear.

Jesus alone has full authority.
and He gave Paul the authority to teach Salvation to the Gentiles/heathen
Acts 9:15, Gal 1:11-12, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16
**
Your writings fail to change that simple truth :)

 

[LoveYeshua]

Jesus alone has full authority.
and He gave Paul the authority to teach Salvation to the Gentiles/heathen
Acts 9:15, Gal 1:11-12, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16
**
Your writings fail to change that simple truth :)

You failed to understand what I was writing about but as long as you remember that Jesus was Given all authority in heaven and on earth and If you follow HIS words all is good.

Blessings

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus alone has full authority.
and He gave Paul the authority to teach Salvation to the Gentiles/heathen
Acts 9:15, Gal 1:11-12, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16
**
Your writings fail to change that simple truth :)

So Jesus and Paul don't contradict one another then, right?

 

[rvmb]

You failed to understand what I was writing about but as long as you remember that Jesus was Given all authority in heaven and on earth and If you follow HIS words all is good.

Blessings

""You failed to understand what I was writing about but as long""
What we write does not alter what Scripture teaches.
Christ who has ALL AUTHORITY gave Paul AUTHORITY AND THE GOSPEL to teach Salvation to believers today.
Acts 9:15, Rom11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 1:11-12

 

[rvmb]

So Jesus and Paul don't contradict one another then, right?

Christ gave an audience & age to the 12
Christ gave a different audience & age to Paul. >> Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 1:11-12
Man creates the contradiction & confusion by trying to force all the teachings together

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No, actually all the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus coming thru Paul and the other Apostles are for New Testament believers today.

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[LoveYeshua]

No, actually all the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus coming thru Paul and the other Apostles are for New Testament believers today.

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

yes and In essence, Luke 16:16 highlights a transitional period between the Old Covenant (the Law and the Prophets) and the New Covenant (the Kingdom of God). The era of the Law and Prophets ended with John the Baptist, and since then, the message of God's kingdom has been proclaimed by Jesus. People are responding to this message with great urgency, pressing into the kingdom, though this also suggests the difficulty and challenge of entering it.

 

[rvmb]

yes and In essence, Luke 16:16 highlights a transitional period between the Old Covenant (the Law and the Prophets) and the New Covenant (the Kingdom of God). The era of the Law and Prophets ended with John the Baptist, and since then, the message of God's kingdom has been proclaimed by Jesus. People are responding to this message with great urgency, pressing into the kingdom, though this also suggests the difficulty and challenge of entering it.

The Kingdom of God - doctrine.org

Introduction What the kingdom of God is, where it is located, and what is its future is greatly misunderstood by most in Christendom. The majority of Christians have been taught that the kingdom of God is in heaven, or in…

doctrine.org

 

[Jay Ross]

Luke 16:14-18: - The Law, the Prophets, and the Kingdom​

​

14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts . For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.​

​

16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.​

​

18 “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.​

It seems to me that people ignore verse 17 above. Also verse 14 is interesting as well as this is well practiced on this forum.

 

[rvmb]

​

Luke 16:14-18: - The Law, the Prophets, and the Kingdom​

​

14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts . For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.​

​

16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.​

​

18 “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.​

It seems to me that people ignore verse 17 above. Also verse 14 is interesting as well as this is well practiced on this forum.

""It seems to me that people ignore verse 17 above. Also verse 14 is interesting as well as this is well practiced on this forum.""
It seems to me that people ignore who Christ selected as the ONLY Apostle to teach Salvation to believers today instead they blend ALL the teachings that applies to ALL AUDIENCES & AGES to today thereby causing the confusion they suffer.

 

[LoveYeshua]

""It seems to me that people ignore verse 17 above. Also verse 14 is interesting as well as this is well practiced on this forum.""
It seems to me that people ignore who Christ selected as the ONLY Apostle to teach Salvation to believers today instead they blend ALL the teachings that applies to ALL AUDIENCES & AGES to today thereby causing the confusion they suffer.

and who would that be? "who Christ selected as the ONLY Apostle to teach Salvation to believers today"

Now lets see who is confused

 

[rvmb]

and who would that be? "who Christ selected as the ONLY Apostle to teach Salvation to believers today"

Now lets see who is confused

No confusion in the verses
Acts 9:15, Gal 2:6-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, 1 Tim 2:7, 2 Tim 1:1, Acts 15:6-25
Now list the verses AFTER Paul was commissioned above that teach the 12 have the same authority to teach salvation to the believers today.
No rush ly, just the verses :)

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

yes and In essence, Luke 16:16 highlights a transitional period between the Old Covenant (the Law and the Prophets) and the New Covenant (the Kingdom of God). The era of the Law and Prophets ended with John the Baptist, and since then, the message of God's kingdom has been proclaimed by Jesus. People are responding to this message with great urgency, pressing into the kingdom, though this also suggests the difficulty and challenge of entering it.

And sadly we see people being deceived by satan in to believing Jesus taught OT law to the Jews and we should all ignore the teachings of Jesus and follow the Apostle Paul as though he is the lord and savior.