Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[WPM]

SIMPLE = people are not in spiritual prison outside of earth

Hello! Neither is Satan and his demons. Hello! The abyss is not a geographical place. It is a spiritual state. The abyss is on earth. Read the text: "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Rev 9:1).

 

[WPM]

SIMPLE = people are not in spiritual prison outside of earth

People are born in SIN and it is SIN that has people bound in their physical bodies = mind soul spirit is BOUND in SIN

Satan is the source of SIN = Genesis ch3

Psalm 51
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

• Do you believe Satan and his minions are physical beings?
• Is the dragon in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical dragon?
• Is the serpent in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical serpent?
• Do you believe Satan literally has 7 heads and 7 necks?
• Is the key mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal door key?
• Is the chain mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal chain?
• Is the prison mentioned in Revelation 20:7 a literal brick prison?
• Do you believe demons need to be detained in a literal physical prison with literal metal chains in order to be restrained?
• Can a prisoner in a prison have great wrath while in chains?
• Does imprisonment mean immobility?
• Does it mean a prisoner cannot do harm?
• Can a dog on a chain walk or roam about?
• Can a prisoner in a prison walk or roam about?
• Can a prisoner deceive others in prison?
• Does a prisoner have the ability to kill, steal, destroy, rape and embezzle in prison?
• When the Bible talk about the wicked being bound in chains do you believe these are literal physical chains?
• When the Bible talk about the wicked being imprisoned do you believe they are all in literal physical brick prisons?

 

[ewq1938]

Notice how Satan was formerly named Lucifer = Isaiah 14:12-17

GOD changes Lucifers name to Satan = Gospel and NT Letters /Writings

Can you find anywhere in Scripture where Satan is specifically called Apollyon BEFORE we get to Revelation chapter 9

No, but Jesus spoke of satan as a thief who wants to destroy so calling him two words that mean destroyer is pretty good evidence of a new name for satan.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation ch9 a certain angel is released from the bottomless pit named Apollyon

Go read it again. It does not say that angel is released from the pit.

Daniel 12:1-4 proves that Apollyon is not Satan

Daniel does not use the name.

IMPOSSIBLE for Satan to be Apollyon and vice versa based on the Corroborative Scripture of Daniel 12:1 to Revelation ch12

I don't see any such evidence there nor any use of "destroyer" in any language.

The only thing i see you relying upon is that Appllyon was locked in the pit at a time satan was not, but the passage never says Apollyon was ever locked in the pit or shows him being released. It only says he is teh angel of the pity, which can simply mean he rules over the ones held in the pit, or even a reference that he would be locked in the pit/angel of the pit.

IMO the position that the destroyer is satan is strong, based on Christ telling us that satan the thief wants to destroy. The other passage shows sending someone to satan for destruction of the flesh so another destruction reference related to satan, not to one of satan's minions but satan himself. Apollyon is definitely one of many names of satan.

 

[David in NJ]

No, but Jesus spoke of satan as a thief who wants to destroy so calling him two words that mean destroyer is pretty good evidence of a new name for satan.

"theif" is generic and applies to all fallen angels and demons as all come to steal, kill and destroy

JESUS speaks of Satan for Two Important Eternal Facts = Sin began with Satan and he is the Highest angel created by GOD

Satan is the Cherubin who Covers = Highest Angelic Being = only Michael can withstand him and only in the Authority of the LORD's Name

Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” - Jude 1:9

 

[David in NJ]

Go read it again. It does not say that angel is released from the pit.




Daniel does not use the name.




I don't see any such evidence there nor any use of "destroyer" in any language.

The only thing i see you relying upon is that Appllyon was locked in the pit at a time satan was not, but the passage never says Apollyon was ever locked in the pit or shows him being released. It only says he is teh angel of the pity, which can simply mean he rules over the ones held in the pit, or even a reference that he would be locked in the pit/angel of the pit.

IMO the position that the destroyer is satan is strong, based on Christ telling us that satan the thief wants to destroy. The other passage shows sending someone to satan for destruction of the flesh so another destruction reference related to satan, not to one of satan's minions but satan himself. Apollyon is definitely one of many names of satan.

this time i read it = lol = last time i was going on memory(old memory) lol

And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

Are you saying that Apollyon was not in the pit??? Because it was locked and a angel was sent to unlock it.

Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.

Three options here:
1 - Apollyon is in the pit = "the angel of the bottomless pit"
2 - Apollyon is not in the pit and just shows up??? = not agreeing with scripture here or in any other place in scripture
3 - the angel with the key to unlock is Apollyon who was assigned for this very purpose by God

Options 1 and 3 are viable according to scripture and especially option 3

ALSO = Satan never wants to be locked up in prison = no angel wants that, furthermore we do not see Satan involved in this as he is preoccupied with ruling the world, seeking to destroy the Jewish people and the Saints/Christians.
Apollyon, on the other hand has this one task to perform = he may not even be part of Satan's angels
IMPORTANT = Satan and his angels are NOT cast to earth until chapter 12

God sent out 'destroying' angels before in the OT

 

[ewq1938]

"theif" is generic and applies to all fallen angels and demons as all come to steal, kill and destroy

And satan is also a fallen angel so Apollyon could be him. I think in context Jesus was speaking of one certain "thief", satan.

 

[David in NJ]

Go read it again. It does not say that angel is released from the pit.




Daniel does not use the name.




I don't see any such evidence there nor any use of "destroyer" in any language.

The only thing i see you relying upon is that Appllyon was locked in the pit at a time satan was not, but the passage never says Apollyon was ever locked in the pit or shows him being released. It only says he is teh angel of the pity, which can simply mean he rules over the ones held in the pit, or even a reference that he would be locked in the pit/angel of the pit.

IMO the position that the destroyer is satan is strong, based on Christ telling us that satan the thief wants to destroy. The other passage shows sending someone to satan for destruction of the flesh so another destruction reference related to satan, not to one of satan's minions but satan himself. Apollyon is definitely one of many names of satan.

Post 286 ends it for me tonight = past my bedtime brother

You have STIRRED my mind to find the sound truth/answer and i believe i know where to find

Will keep us in suspense until i DIG DEEPER on Apollyon

Good Night Brother

 

[ewq1938]

this time i read it = lol = last time i was going on memory(old memory) lol

And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

Are you saying that Apollyon was not in the pit???

Yes, not in there as it was locked.

Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.

Three options here:
1 - Apollyon is in the pit = "the angel of the bottomless pit"
2 - Apollyon is not in the pit and just shows up??? = not agreeing with scripture here or in any other place in scripture
3 - the angel with the key to unlock is Apollyon who was assigned for this very purpose by God

Options 1 and 3 are viable according to scripture and especially option 3

Scripture never says he was in the pit or comes out of it so 1 is wrong.
3 is wrong because no evil angel has those keys. Only number 2 is valid. Apollyon is satan, one of many names that show his evil character.

ALSO = Satan never wants to be locked up in prison = no angel wants that, furthermore we do not see Satan involved in this as he is preoccupied with ruling the world, seeking to destroy the Jewish people and the Saints/Christians.
Apollyon, on the other hand has this one task to perform = he may not even be part of Satan's angels
IMPORTANT = Satan and his angels are NOT cast to earth until chapter 12

Rev is not fully chronological. satan has always been the angel of the pit and the king over the evil; within there and was on the Earth when the pit was opened.

God sent out 'destroying' angels before in the OT

Righteous destroying is done by good angels, evil destroying is done by evil angels and satan would be validly called the destroyer as he is the Adversary and has the power of death.

 

[Marty fox]

Trillions of angels were created by GOD = all with purpose as well as having differing ranks of authority

The "destroying angel" of Exodus ch12 is NOT Satan = crystal clear

Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

Beginning in Revelation chapter 2, the LORD is very specific = Satan is free on earth to Rule

And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:
“I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is.
And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr,
who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

In all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation, Satan remains as "god of this world/Age" and "roams about seeking who he may devour"
Only when the LORD Returns, is Satan locked up = Gospel, 1st & 2nd Thess, Rev chapters 19-20

Where do you get there are trillions of angels?

I,m not saying that satan is literally bound that’s my whole point

 

[Marty fox]

What does Revelation 20:3 say about what you say in the first line of your above post?

?

 

[Marty fox]

The following passage, for one, supports that. But what does that have to do with satan being bound a thousand years?

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


Yet I wonder if some interpreters fully understand that passage? I only quoted verse 3-7, yet verses 8-18 are to be considered as well in order to better grasp what is being taught here.

In the verses above, this comes first--the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. The remedy is then this---the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Except that does the lost no good if this is the case---if our gospel be hid. Therefore, satan doesn't need to be bound in order to spread the gospel of Christ. Our gospel needs to not be hidden in order to spread the gospel of Christ.

Therefore, the saved have the responsibility for spreading the gospel of Christ. satan isn't bound so that the gospel of Christ can spread. Obviously, satan is not bound when he is blinding the minds of those that believe not. How does that make sense that satan is bound so that he can't prevent the spread of the gospel of Christ, while he continues to blind the minds of those that believe not?

I was clarifying a statement made to me in that post

 

[David in NJ]

Where do you get there are trillions of angels?

I,m not saying that satan is literally bound that’s my whole point

This is my speculation based on Scripture = could be more then trillions

Isaiah 40:26
Look up into the heavens. Who created all the stars? He brings them out like an army, one after another, calling each by its name. Because of his great power and incomparable strength, not a single one is missing.

Psalm 147
1Hallelujah!
How good it is to sing praises to our God,
how pleasant and lovely to praise Him!
2The LORD builds up Jerusalem;
He gathers the exiles of Israel.
3He heals the brokenhearted
and binds up their wounds.
4He determines the number of the stars;
He calls them each by name.
5Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;
His understanding has no limit.

 

[Marty fox]

This is my speculation based on Scripture = could be more then trillions

Isaiah 40:26
Look up into the heavens. Who created all the stars? He brings them out like an army, one after another, calling each by its name. Because of his great power and incomparable strength, not a single one is missing.

Psalm 147
1Hallelujah!
How good it is to sing praises to our God,
how pleasant and lovely to praise Him!
2The LORD builds up Jerusalem;
He gathers the exiles of Israel.
3He heals the brokenhearted
and binds up their wounds.
4He determines the number of the stars;
He calls them each by name.
5Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;
His understanding has no limit.

Okay thanks but you didn't say "you think" you said "there is".

Since we know that there are most likely trillions of stars and planets this is obviously meaning stars and planets.

 

[David in NJ]

Okay thanks but you didn't say you think you said there is.

Since we know that there are most likely trillions of stars and planets this is obviously meaning starts and planets.

Absolutely = We KNOW by LOOKING UP and Believing the WORD that is GOD from the Beginning

And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.”
Then the LORD brought Abram outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

And Abram believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

i said "i think" because GOD Says we cannot count the number = KAPISH my brother in Christ

 

[Marty fox]

Absolutely = We KNOW by LOOKING UP and Believing the WORD that is GOD from the Beginning

And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.”
Then the LORD brought Abram outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

And Abram believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

i said "i think" because GOD Says we cannot count the number = KAPISH my brother in Christ

But you didn't say "I think" (unless I missed it) but not in the post I am talking about.

You also said this to me "This statement above is the one where I said you added your own words."

 

[David in NJ]

But you didn't say "I think" (unless I missed it) but not in the post I am talking about.

You also said this to me "This statement above is the one where I said you added your own words."

Not sure what you are getting at here

If i said specifically "trillions" of angels then i was CORRECT for GOD Says we cannot count the number and "trillions" is within the NUMBER/QUANTITY that GOD Says we cannot count = FULL SUMMATION

i also said "perhaps MORE"

 

[Marty fox]

Not sure what you are getting at here

If i said specifically "trillions" of angels then i was CORRECT for GOD Says we cannot count the number and "trillions" is within the NUMBER/QUANTITY that GOD Says we cannot count = FULL SUMMATION

i also said "perhaps MORE"

Because it doesn't say angels it says stars

 

[David in NJ]

Because it doesn't say angels it says stars

The stars represent/symbolic of angels = Daniel 12:1-3

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

Love You my brother

 

[WPM]

The stars represent/symbolic of angels = Daniel 12:1-3

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

Love You my brother

So the stars here are not real? They are angels?