Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[David in NJ]

So the stars here are not real? They are angels?

Why do you strain at a gnat?

 

[Marty fox]

The stars represent/symbolic of angels = Daniel 12:1-3

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

Love You my brother

It says shine like stars not angels.

Look at the context below

Then the LORD brought Abram outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

God was obviously taking about the actual stars here he told Abraham to go outside and to look up and count the stars

I find it interesting how you take this as symbolic and other things literal

 

[David in NJ]

Because it doesn't say angels it says stars

Just as GOD can never lie, His Word surely does equate the stars as angels = symbolically

And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. - Revelation 12:3

 

[David in NJ]

It says shine like stars not angels.

Look at the context below

Then the LORD brought Abram outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

God was obviously taking about the actual stars here he told Abraham to go outside and to look up and count the stars

I find it interesting how you take this as symbolic and other things literal

SIMPLE = Matthew 4:4

 

[Marty fox]

Just as GOD can never lie, His Word surely does equate the stars as angels = symbolically

And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. - Revelation 12:3

Yes at times when the text allows it but what is the context below what was the message God was giving to Abraham?

Then the LORD brought Abram outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

The message was millions of offspring but in Revelation chapter 12 the message was a war in heaven. Context always plays a role.

 

[Marty fox]

SIMPLE = Matthew 4:4

Yes I take the bible as literal and symbolic at different times too but only according to the context

 

[David in NJ]

Yes at times when the text allows it but what is the context below what was the message God was giving to Abraham?

Then the LORD brought Abram outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

The message was millions of offspring but in Revelation chapter 12 the message was a war in heaven. Context always plays a role.

You were given THREE passages from the Holy Spirit that all SPEAK of the SAME

Don't be like religion and the religious minded people who missed out!

And the word of the LORD will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. - Isaiah 28:13

 

[David in NJ]

Yes I take the bible as literal and symbolic at different times too but only according to the context

i know context, and it was shown to you, but be very careful of this false speaking: "context context context"

For
γάρ (gar)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 1063: For. A primary particle; properly, assigning a reason.

it is written:
γέγραπται (gegraptai)
Verb - Perfect Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 1125: A primary verb; to 'grave', especially to write; figuratively, to describe.

“I will destroy
Ἀπολῶ (Apolō)
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 622: From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully, literally or figuratively.

the
τὴν (tēn)
Article - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

wisdom
σοφίαν (sophian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 4678: Wisdom, insight, skill (human or divine), intelligence. From sophos; wisdom.

of the
τῶν (tōn)
Article - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

wise;
σοφῶν (sophōn)
Adjective - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 4680: Wise, learned, cultivated, skilled, clever. Akin to saphes; wise.

the
τὴν (tēn)
Article - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

intelligence
σύνεσιν (synesin)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 4907: From suniemi; a mental putting together, i.e. Intelligence or the intellect.

of the
τῶν (tōn)
Article - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

intelligent
συνετῶν (synetōn)
Adjective - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 4908: Intelligent, prudent, wise, understanding, discerning. From suniemi; mentally put together, i.e. Sagacious.

I will frustrate.” = I, the LORD will make null and void
ἀθετήσω (athetēsō)
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 114: From a compound of a and a derivative of tithemi; to set aside, i.e. to disesteem, neutralize or violate.

 

[Marty fox]

i know context, and it was shown to you, but be very careful of this false speaking: "context context context"

For
γάρ (gar)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 1063: For. A primary particle; properly, assigning a reason.

it is written:
γέγραπται (gegraptai)
Verb - Perfect Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 1125: A primary verb; to 'grave', especially to write; figuratively, to describe.

“I will destroy
Ἀπολῶ (Apolō)
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 622: From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully, literally or figuratively.

the
τὴν (tēn)
Article - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

wisdom
σοφίαν (sophian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 4678: Wisdom, insight, skill (human or divine), intelligence. From sophos; wisdom.

of the
τῶν (tōn)
Article - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

wise;
σοφῶν (sophōn)
Adjective - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 4680: Wise, learned, cultivated, skilled, clever. Akin to saphes; wise.

the
τὴν (tēn)
Article - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

intelligence
σύνεσιν (synesin)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 4907: From suniemi; a mental putting together, i.e. Intelligence or the intellect.

of the
τῶν (tōn)
Article - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

intelligent
συνετῶν (synetōn)
Adjective - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 4908: Intelligent, prudent, wise, understanding, discerning. From suniemi; mentally put together, i.e. Sagacious.

I will frustrate.” = I, the LORD will make null and void
ἀθετήσω (athetēsō)
Verb - Future Indicative Active - 1st Person Singular
Strong's Greek 114: From a compound of a and a derivative of tithemi; to set aside, i.e. to disesteem, neutralize or violate.

Then what is the context when God ask Abraham to go outside and look up at the stars?

 

[David in NJ]

Then what is the context when God ask Abraham to go outside and look up at the stars?

More then one dimension of Truth = just as was given to you from our Heavenly FATHER's Word

context is the first dimension = the obvious

 

[Marty fox]

More then one dimension of Truth = just as was given to you from our Heavenly FATHER's Word

context is the first dimension = the obvious

Then why do you believe in a literal thousand years and dismiss a symbolic thousand years?

 

[Davidpt]

It says shine like stars not angels.

Look at the context below

Then the LORD brought Abram outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

God was obviously taking about the actual stars here he told Abraham to go outside and to look up and count the stars

I find it interesting how you take this as symbolic and other things literal

Personally, I think both of you are making great points. As to your post here, I agree with you since it was obviously literal stars Abram would be seeing rather than literal angels. Context makes that obvious. And that you have mentioned context matters. I agree.

 

[Marty fox]

Personally, I think both of you are making great points. As to your post here, I agree with you since it was obviously literal stars Abram would be seeing rather than literal angels. Context makes that obvious. And that you have mentioned context matters. I agree.

Thanks, its good to finally agree eh LOL

 

[David in NJ]

Then why do you believe in a literal thousand years and dismiss a symbolic thousand years?

Because GOD said it was literal, in GENESIS = GOD never lies

 

[Marty fox]

Because GOD said it was literal, in GENESIS = GOD never lies

What verse was that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

the Book of Daniel dismantles amil-ism

Why do the same as catholics, pre-fibbers, SDA and all the "isms"???

Why waste time opposing what GOD Says???

Why waste time sharing your opinions without being able to back them up with scripture? You never give any coherent arguments using scripture to back up your claims, but you still expect people to just take your word for things. That's not how debates work. You need to be able to defend your doctrine with scripture and you can't do it. And you need to be able to explain how your doctrine can be reconciled with passages like Matthew 24:35-39 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 and you don't even attempt to do so.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The story of Premils on these boards over recent years is that they are incapable of addressing or rebutting one argument. They just avoid and derail. They cannot address arguments. They cannot answer questions. They cannot put up a coherent rebuttal. All they do is name-call and avoid.

And it's been that way for many years. Nothing ever changes in that regard.

 

[David in NJ]

What verse was that?

Both a verse and and a chapter

You don't know?

 

[David in NJ]

Personally, I think both of you are making great points. As to your post here, I agree with you since it was obviously literal stars Abram would be seeing rather than literal angels. Context makes that obvious. And that you have mentioned context matters. I agree.

Do you know that many people who lived on 'context' alone ended up in hell?

While others who also began with the necessary context as their first steps went on to Salvation.

 

[Marty fox]

Both a verse and and a chapter

You don't know?

No that's why I was asking