Battle for Jerusalem in 70 AD

[covenantee]

And yet you run from the FACTS.

There is still one stone upon another in the buildings of the Temple. Matthew 24:1-2 is yet unfulfilled.

The sign that you gave only proves it.

And yet you run from post 14.

Simple instructions that you refuse to follow.

Because they demonstrate your fallacy.

 

[The Light]

And yet you run from post 14.

Simple instructions that you refuse to follow.

Because they demonstrate your fallacy.

Ok. I choose number 2.

I'm unable to provide Just one name.

And what fallacy does this demonstrate?

 

[covenantee]

Ok. I choose number 2.

I'm unable to provide Just one name.

And what fallacy does this demonstrate?

Thanks. Now we can proceed.

What is your photographic evidence that Matthew 24:1-2 is unfulfilled?

 

[The Light]

Thanks. Now we can proceed.

What is your photographic evidence that Matthew 24:1-2 is unfulfilled?

The prophetic evidence is the sign that Jesus says will occur when there will not be one stone upon another.

 

[covenantee]

The prophetic evidence is the sign that Jesus says will occur when there will not be one stone upon another.

So show us photographic evidence that there presently is one stone upon another.

 

[The Light]

So show us photographic evidence that there presently is one stone upon another.

So it seems you discount the words of Jesus when He says that when there is not one stone upon another, it will be the days vengeance when all that is written is fulfilled.

Do you not believe Jesus?

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

 

[covenantee]

So it seems you discount the words of Jesus when He says that when there is not one stone upon another, it will be the days vengeance when all that is written is fulfilled.

Do you not believe Jesus?

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Please provide a link to the description of what appears in the photo.

 

[The Light]

Please provide a link to the description of what appears in the photo.

one stone upon another at the temple mount - Bing

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[covenantee]

one stone upon another at the temple mount - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

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Debris at the base of the Western Wall.

Here's what the Jews of the Jewish Virtual Library say about the Western Wall:

"When Rome destroyed the Second Temple in 70 C.E., only one outer wall remained standing. The Romans probably would have destroyed that wall as well, but it must have seemed too insignificant to them; it was not even part of the Temple itself, just an outer wall surrounding the Temple Mount."

They're quite obviously smarter than you.

So much for your "FACTS".

Here's the fulfilled historical Scriptural description, courtesy of recognized historical exegete Adam Clarke, et al:

"This part of our Lord's prediction was fulfilled in the most literal manner. Josephus says, War, book vii. c. 1: "Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the whole city and temple, τε πολιν απασαν και τον νεων κατασκεπτειν, except the three towers, Phaselus, Hippicus, and Mariamne, and a part of the western wall, and these were spared; but, for all the rest of the wall, it was laid so completely even with the ground, by those who dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited." Maimonides, a Jewish rabbin, in Tract. Taanith, c. 4, says, "That the very foundations of the temple were digged up, according to the Roman custom." His words are these: "On that ninth day of the month Ab, fatal for vengeance, the wicked Turnus Rufus, of the children of Edom, ploughed up the temple, and the places round about it, that the saying might be fulfilled, Zion shall be ploughed as a field." This Turnus, or rather Terentius Rufus, was left general of the army by Titus, with commission, as the Jews suppose, to destroy the city and the temple, as Josephus observes."

"Do you not believe Jesus?"

Read and weep.

 

[TribulationSigns]

"When Rome destroyed the Second Temple in 70 C.E., only one outer wall remained standing. The Romans probably would have destroyed that wall as well, but it must have seemed too insignificant to them; it was not even part of the Temple itself, just an outer wall surrounding the Temple Mount."

Guess Josephus is your authority, then.

The Bible is its own interpreter, dictionary, and authority. The fact is, Josephus never accepted or received Jesus as Christ, so I don't know where you are getting your information from. Do many Christians accept Josephus' writings as authoritative? Yes, unfortunately, to their own error. The only authoritative writings are the ones in the Bible, written by God's true authorized prophets who believed on Him. I put my trust in God, not the writings of secular historians.

Psalms 40:4

• "Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies."

He that puts his confidence or trust in the words of men, trusts in vain. The testimony that we should trust in is the Bible testimony. So many have erred in putting confidence in the writings and testimonies of men, over and above what God actually said.

Psalms 118:8

• "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."

You admired Josephus and built a doctrine upon his writing because you believe he had the first-hand accounts of the literal destruction of the Temple. Then he must have been standing there when Jesus Christ was put to death by crucifixion. Because that is the only way that he could have a first hand account of the destruction of the Temple.

John 2:1821

• "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
• Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
• Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
• But he spake of the temple of his body."

Like you, the Jewish people there did not understand the spiritual nature of the Word of God, the destruction of the Holy Temple, and the three days in rebuilding it.

Yeah got it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I've noticed a common theme on these forums. Those that do not believe in a rapture before the great tribulation, are afraid of FACTS.

The FACTS are that there is no pre-trib rapture and dispensationalism is a figment of someone's imagination (Darby) that many have unfortunately fallen for. That doctrine is extremely weak and can be easily destroyed using FACTS from scripture. And it has been destroyed on this forum repeatedly. Whether you acknowledge that or not doesn't matter. It's clear to anyone with an open mind.

I proved to you in our previous posts that there is still one stone upon another according to scripture.

LOL! It's ridiculous to try to disprove the prophecy Jesus made that the temple buildings standing at the time would be destroyed with no stone left upon another. That is exactly what happened, proving that Jesus is a true prophet. Instead of celebrating the amazing accuracy of His prophecy, you deny the FACTS about what happened in 70 AD. Are you somehow not aware that acknowledging those FACTS doesn't preclude you from believing in the future return of Jesus Christ? In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus was asked two questions. One related to a local event in Judea and Jerusalem related to the destruction of the temple buildings that he talked about and that the disciples asked Him about with their first question. The other related to His future coming at the end of this temporal age. There's no reason to think that Jesus could only have spoken about the past, as preterists believe, or only about the future, as futurists believe, in the Olivet Discourse. That ends up making a mess of the Olivet Discourse.

We know that is the case, because it will be the days of vengeance which is the 7th seal wrath of God. At the end of the days of vengeance all that is written will be fulfilled.

The days of vengeance related directly to things happening in Jerusalem (Luke 21:20-24). The return of Christ is a global event, not a local event in Jerusalem.

Instead of addressing the facts, you want to hide behind a game.

It always puzzles me. Don't you even want to know the truth?

You sure don't seem to want to know the truth with your denial of obvious FACTS that the temple buildings that Jesus said would be destroyed were indeed destroyed in 70 AD.

 

[The Light]

Debris at the base of the Western Wall.

Here's what the Jews of the Jewish Virtual Library say about the Western Wall:

"When Rome destroyed the Second Temple in 70 C.E., only one outer wall remained standing. The Romans probably would have destroyed that wall as well, but it must have seemed too insignificant to them; it was not even part of the Temple itself, just an outer wall surrounding the Temple Mount."

They're quite obviously smarter than you.

So much for your "FACTS".

What you quoted says, "The Romans probably would have destroyed that wall as well, but it must have seemed too insignificant to them."

I guess you could go with that

This seems more factual. "The Romans probably would have destroyed the wall as well except there is prophecy that says all the building of the Temple will be destroyed at the time of vengeance when all that is written will be fulfilled. FACT.

Here's the fulfilled historical Scriptural description, courtesy of recognized historical exegete Adam Clarke, et al:

"This part of our Lord's prediction was fulfilled in the most literal manner. Josephus says, War, book vii. c. 1: "Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the whole city and temple, τε πολιν απασαν και τον νεων κατασκεπτειν, except the three towers, Phaselus, Hippicus, and Mariamne, and a part of the western wall, and these were spared; but, for all the rest of the wall, it was laid so completely even with the ground, by those who dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited." Maimonides, a Jewish rabbin, in Tract. Taanith, c. 4, says, "That the very foundations of the temple were digged up, according to the Roman custom." His words are these: "On that ninth day of the month Ab, fatal for vengeance, the wicked Turnus Rufus, of the children of Edom, ploughed up the temple, and the places round about it, that the saying might be fulfilled, Zion shall be ploughed as a field." This Turnus, or rather Terentius Rufus, was left general of the army by Titus, with commission, as the Jews suppose, to destroy the city and the temple, as Josephus observes."

"Do you not believe Jesus?"

Read and weep.

Why would I read and weep when I'm sitting on a Royal flush?

Nothing can beat the Word of God, and the Word of God says there will not be one stone upon another in buildings of the Temple and that event will begin when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies as the sign. This will be the time of vengeance which is the wrath of God, and it will conclude when all things that are written are fulfilled.

Game, Set, Match.

 

[covenantee]

What you quoted says, "The Romans probably would have destroyed that wall as well, but it must have seemed too insignificant to them."

I guess you could go with that

This seems more factual. "The Romans probably would have destroyed the wall as well except there is prophecy that says all the building of the Temple will be destroyed at the time of vengeance when all that is written will be fulfilled. FACT.

Why would I read and weep when I'm sitting on a Royal flush?

Nothing can beat the Word of God, and the Word of God says there will not be one stone upon another in buildings of the Temple and that event will begin when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies as the sign. This will be the time of vengeance which is the wrath of God, and it will conclude when all things that are written are fulfilled.

Game, Set, Match.

Yes, royally flushed after your sitting.

The Romans and Jews knew and know the difference between a temple and a retaining wall.

You don't.

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[covenantee]

Guess Josephus is your authority, then.

The Bible is its own interpreter, dictionary, and authority. The fact is, Josephus never accepted or received Jesus as Christ, so I don't know where you are getting your information from. Do many Christians accept Josephus' writings as authoritative? Yes, unfortunately, to their own error. The only authoritative writings are the ones in the Bible, written by God's true authorized prophets who believed on Him. I put my trust in God, not the writings of secular historians.

Psalms 40:4

• "Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies."

He that puts his confidence or trust in the words of men, trusts in vain. The testimony that we should trust in is the Bible testimony. So many have erred in putting confidence in the writings and testimonies of men, over and above what God actually said.

Psalms 118:8

• "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."

You admired Josephus and built a doctrine upon his writing because you believe he had the first-hand accounts of the literal destruction of the Temple. Then he must have been standing there when Jesus Christ was put to death by crucifixion. Because that is the only way that he could have a first hand account of the destruction of the Temple.

John 2:1821

• "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
• Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
• Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
• But he spake of the temple of his body."

Like you, the Jewish people there did not understand the spiritual nature of the Word of God, the destruction of the Holy Temple, and the three days in rebuilding it.

Yeah got it.

Yes, there was no literal 70 AD.
There was no literal temple.
There was no literal destruction of the temple.
There was no literal Jerusalem.
There was no literal destruction of Jerusalem.
There was no literal Roman army.
There were no literal Judaean Christians who escaped the literal Roman army.

Feel free to add.

 

[The Light]

Yes, royally flushed after your sitting.

The Romans and Jews knew and know the difference between a temple and a retaining wall.

You don't.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Great. Now try to address the Word of God.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, there was no literal 70 AD.
There was no literal temple.
There was no literal destruction of the temple.
There was no literal Jerusalem.
There was no literal destruction of Jerusalem.
There was no literal Roman army.
There were no literal Judaean Christians who escaped the literal Roman army.

Feel free to add.

Thought so. You’ve actually made my case, exactly as I wrote.

John 2:18-21

• "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
• Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
• Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
• But he spake of the temple of his body."

Like the Jews in that passage, you are insisting on a literal, physical interpretation where Christ was speaking spiritually and covenantally. They heard stone and mortar; Christ meant His body. That misunderstanding is explicitly stated in the text.

So when you respond with a list of “literal” objects—temple, city, stones, armies, or even year—you are repeating the same interpretive error Jesus corrected in John 2.

The issue is not whether physical events in 70AD occurred. The issue is what Christ was actually talking about.

They misunderstood Him then.

You are doing the same now.

Yeah — got it.

 

[covenantee]

Great. Now try to address the Word of God.

The discerning recognize that historical Scriptural fulfillment does that.

The undiscerning do not recognize that futurized fallacious fantasy does not.

Which are you?

 

[covenantee]

The issue is what Christ was actually talking about.

According to you, He talks only about the spiritual, never the temporal.

You didn't add to my list. What's the matter with you?

 

[amigo de christo]

I see you are unable to address the FACTS of scripture.

Were all things that are written fulfilled in 70AD?

no .

 

[Scott Downey]

While Christ is the Rock, a stone of stumbling and rock of offense, Christ is answering the question in regards to a physical temple made of stone blocks.

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 13 - 21st Century King James Version

And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said unto Him, "Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!" And Jesus answering, said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? There shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down." And as He...

www.biblegateway.com

1 And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said unto Him, “Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!”

2 And Jesus answering, said unto him, “Seest thou these great buildings? There shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

3 And as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,

4 “Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?”

v4, divides the various ends. It is called the beginning of sufferings, there are many desolations to come, 70 AD did not end the end of sufferings. Look at our world history and today too. Christ has not returned bodily.

All the stones of the 2nd temple were thrown down, there is not a thing recognizable left of the 2nd temple. What the
Jews call the wailing wall is what is left of the Antonia Roman fortress. They worship at the wall of an ancient Roman fortress.

wailing wall anonia fortress wall - Bing

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