Is it possible to lose salvation?

[walter]

Your interpritation of John 12:32

John 12:32
Berean Standard Bible
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

I do not interpret scripture - I don't explain what the scripture means, the words in the Scriptures speak for themselves.

 

[rvmb]

You should have asked, why did God chose to save anyone. Everyone deserves to go to hell, but God chose to save a remnant for His own glory and according to His soveregin purpouse and will.

So the real question is why did God chose some for salvation and leave the rest alone, in their natureal condemned sate.

God did not purposely choose anyone for hell, they will be cast into hell because they sinned. So God must cast them into hell, otherwise He would be evil if He didn't execute justice

Predestination based on foreknowledge, YES
Predestination based on eeny, meeny, miney, mo, off to hell you go ? NO

 

[walter]

The problem with "letting the actual words in the bible do all the explaining", is you end up with 49,000 different interpritations of what the words are saying. So figuring out which if any are corrwect is liek trying to win the lottery.

If that was the case, why should I read the Bible in the first place?

Why not take the advice the Bible explains, and not take any advice from a different source?

What if we all stopped interpreting the Bible in 49,000 different ways, it's translated in English, just read the words!

 

[rvmb]

It might help if you didin't pluck verses out of their intended context and them missaply them to cause confusion and delusion. Who was 1 Tim 2:4 spoken to, let me guess, you believe it was spoken to Lucifer, Judas Iscarroit, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Satin and Co. Well that's ridicious, because we know Jesus casts such wicked men into hell, so your theology is all messed up.

Stalin, Hitler, Judas << Foreknowledge, GOD knew given the chances they would not be saved so used them for His good reasons.
Predestination is based on FOREKNOWLEDGE.
List the verses that teach otherwise

 

[walter]

Yes Romans 5:18 does confirm that the Lord Jesus didn't come to save the Jews only, but "all men" why do you have a problem with the Lord saving Gentiles from all over the world. Do you think He should have only saved the jews.

Are you talking to me? Jesus came to save "all people" "everywhere"!

 

[rvmb]

Are you talking to me? Jesus came to save "all people" "everywhere"!

and today all are equal (Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15 ) & saved the same way Eph1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4

 

[walter]

The New Testament emphasizes that salvation is a gift received through God's grace and faith in Jesus Christ's ransom sacrifice, not through adherence to "works of the law" (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28).
However, it simultaneously underscores the importance of actions that demonstrate genuine faith and a changed heart:

• Evidence of Repentance: The Bible teaches that true repentance should be accompanied by a change in behavior, described as "works befitting repentance" (Acts 26:20). John the Baptist also called people to "produce fruit in keeping with repentance" (Matthew 3:8).
• Obedience to Jesus' Words: Jesus himself stated that love for him is shown through obedience to his commands (John 14:15, 21). The New Testament consistently encourages believers to live according to his teachings.
• A Living Faith: The book of James specifically addresses the relationship between faith and works, stating that "faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead" (James 2:17). These works are seen as a natural overflow of a transformed life and not a means to earn salvation.

Therefore, the biblical perspective is that while salvation is freely given by grace, a genuine faith in Christ is intrinsically linked with a life of obedience and good works, which serve as evidence of salvation.

 

[walter]

and today all are equal (Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15 ) & saved the same way Eph1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4

Yes your words are true, but does one scripture cancel out the words in another?

Shouldn't we use as many scriptures as we can find on this topic, to get the most complete understanding?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The New Testament emphasizes that salvation is a gift received through God's grace and faith in Jesus Christ's ransom sacrifice, not through adherence to "works of the law" (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28).
However, it simultaneously underscores the importance of actions that demonstrate genuine faith and a changed heart:

• Evidence of Repentance: The Bible teaches that true repentance should be accompanied by a change in behavior, described as "works befitting repentance" (Acts 26:20). John the Baptist also called people to "produce fruit in keeping with repentance" (Matthew 3:8).
• Obedience to Jesus' Words: Jesus himself stated that love for him is shown through obedience to his commands (John 14:15, 21). The New Testament consistently encourages believers to live according to his teachings.
• A Living Faith: The book of James specifically addresses the relationship between faith and works, stating that "faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead" (James 2:17). These works are seen as a natural overflow of a transformed life and not a means to earn salvation.

Therefore, the biblical perspective is that while salvation is freely given by grace, a genuine faith in Christ is intrinsically linked with a life of obedience and good works, which serve as evidence of salvation.

 

[rvmb]

The New Testament emphasizes that salvation is a gift received through God's grace and faith in Jesus Christ's ransom sacrifice, not through adherence to "works of the law" (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28).
However, it simultaneously underscores the importance of actions that demonstrate genuine faith and a changed heart:

• Evidence of Repentance: The Bible teaches that true repentance should be accompanied by a change in behavior, described as "works befitting repentance" (Acts 26:20). John the Baptist also called people to "produce fruit in keeping with repentance" (Matthew 3:8).
• Obedience to Jesus' Words: Jesus himself stated that love for him is shown through obedience to his commands (John 14:15, 21). The New Testament consistently encourages believers to live according to his teachings.
• A Living Faith: The book of James specifically addresses the relationship between faith and works, stating that "faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead" (James 2:17). These works are seen as a natural overflow of a transformed life and not a means to earn salvation.

Therefore, the biblical perspective is that while salvation is freely given by grace, a genuine faith in Christ is intrinsically linked with a life of obedience and good works, which serve as evidence of salvation.

Yes, Acts 26:20 is a good one for the only Paul teaches Salvation today types eg me.
""do works meet for repentance."
I'm trying to find the teachings of Paul that provides more detail.
Are there any verses FROM PAUL that you think may help ?
This recent 6 minute video may interest you

 

[walter]

Yes, Acts 26:20 is a good one for the only Paul teaches Salvation today types eg me.
""do works meet for repentance."
I'm trying to find the teachings of Paul that provides more detail.
Are there any verses FROM PAUL that you think may help ?
This recent 6 minute video may interest you

I will take a look at the video, thanks for the conversation my friend.

 

[walter]

Yes, Acts 26:20 is a good one for the only Paul teaches Salvation today types eg me.
""do works meet for repentance."
I'm trying to find the teachings of Paul that provides more detail.
Are there any verses FROM PAUL that you think may help ?
This recent 6 minute video may interest you

I took a look at these two Greek to English translations of Acts 26:20; I cannot even find a word in Greek that is defined by the word should.

Acts 26:20 but to the ones in Damascus first, and Jerusalem, and in all the region of Judea, and to the nations, I reported to repent and to turn unto God, doing works worthy of repentance.

studybible.info

Acts 26:20 Greek Text Analysis

biblehub.com

-------------------------------------------------
I found it:

I did find the word "should" translated into English. but this Greek word is defined as meaning:
- to change one's mind, I repent
- change my mind,
- to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction)
- repent, repentance

G3340 μετανοέω - Strong's Greek Lexicon

studybible.info

Take a look yourself for this Greek word on this "link" shows that "should" is a minority rendering in English for that Greek word, throughout the Bible.

 

[rvmb]

I took a look at these two Greek to English translations of Acts 26:20; I cannot even find a word in Greek that is defined by the word should.

Acts 26:20 but to the ones in Damascus first, and Jerusalem, and in all the region of Judea, and to the nations, I reported to repent and to turn unto God, doing works worthy of repentance.

studybible.info

Acts 26:20 Greek Text Analysis

biblehub.com

-------------------------------------------------
I found it:

I did find the word "should" translated into English. but this Greek word is defined as meaning:
- to change one's mind, I repent
- change my mind,
- to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction)
- repent, repentance

G3340 μετανοέω - Strong's Greek Lexicon

studybible.info

Repent YES.
My curiosity is where does Paul teach what those works are ?
"do works meet for repentance.""

 

[walter]

Repent YES.
My curiosity is where does Paul teach what those works are ?
"do works meet for repentance.""

Ephesians 4:22
New International Version
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Apostle Paul
1 Corinthians 15:58
Berean Standard Bible
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast and immovable. Always excel in the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Romans 2:6
Berean Standard Bible
God “will repay each one according to his deeds.”

Jesus words to his disciples just before he ascended to heaven.
Matthew 28:20
New King James Version
teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

I like the words by the Apostle Paul, I find that if you include all of Jesus words and all the words in the New Testament and even the Hebrew gospel of Matthew, there is even more words about Works and Deeds and the ministry that Jesus said would be preached through all the inhabited Earth.

To accomplish all those things I think it would be considered some kind of Work or Deeds of Godly devotion.
I would consider observing all Jesus commands, doing good deeds, or producing fruits that befit repentance, important, do you agree?

 

[LoveYeshua]

All of that is based on your private (saved by works) version of the gospel, and Jesus never taught that perverted version. If you care to listen to His voice, you would find He preached the (saved by grace) gospel.

I don't expect you to admitt that you follow the (saved by works) version of the gospel, which Jacom Arminius invented back in the 16th century. I've never meet an Arminian who adimts that they follow him, all Arminians live in denial of the facts.

You reckon salvations comes by keeping the commandments/law, bu the Lord Jesus never ever taught any such doctrine. He taught the opposite, He taught the "saved by grace" gospel, where God saved His elect before the earth was created. He wrote the names of every single one of His elect, in His book of life.
No names can be added or removed, so that blows your (saved by works) theory right out of the water.

Your theology is inconsistent with the Bible, you can quote as many verses as you like, but they are all useless if they are not properly interprited. Iget you believe in your theology, and it may make sense in your mind. But remember there are 49,000 Christian denimnations interpriting the Bible, in a way that they see fit.

Everyone will find out if their interpritation was correct on judgement day, until then we will all disagree with each other on just about every singe verse of scripture.

why if there so many denominations where there is only one truth?

As for the judgment day, Jesus was clear, " You call me Lord, Lord, why do you not do what I say?"

Do you think you are the elect of GOD if you do not know what Jesus asked those who love him to do? well I told you in the Last post but I bet you did not read it and after the first paragraph you stopped.

there is a parable of the great Banquet Jesus said that is perfectly appropriate for many and that includes you, please read it through and see what awaits. but most likely you did not read this either so you shall never know. it is another parable about people not making it to Heaven . Yes another parable that say not everyone will make it, so many warnings Jesus left us only the blind cannot see because it is closed to them.

The Parable of the Great Banquet​

Then Jesus said to the man who had invited Him, “When you host a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or brothers or relatives or rich neighbors. Otherwise, they may invite you in return, and you will be repaid.​

But when you host a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind,​

and you will be blessed. Since they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”​

When one of those reclining with Him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is everyone who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.”​

​

But Jesus replied, “A certain man prepared a great banquet and invited many guests.​

​

When it was time for the banquet, he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’​

​

But one after another they all began to make excuses. The first one said, ‘I have bought a field, and I need to go see it. Please excuse me.’​

​

Another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to try them out. Please excuse me.’​

​

Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, so I cannot come.’​

​

The servant returned and reported all this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the city, and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind, and the lame.’​

​

‘Sir,’ the servant replied, ‘what you ordered has been done, and there is still room.’​

​

So the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full.​

​

For I tell you, not one of those men who were invited will taste my banquet.’”​

 

[rvmb]

Ephesians 4:22
New International Version
You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Apostle Paul
1 Corinthians 15:58
Berean Standard Bible
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast and immovable. Always excel in the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Romans 2:6
Berean Standard Bible
God “will repay each one according to his deeds.”

Jesus words to his disciples just before he ascended to heaven.
Matthew 28:20
New King James Version
teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

I like the words by the Apostle Paul, I find that if you include all of Jesus words and all the words in the New Testament and even the Hebrew gospel of Matthew, there is even more words about Works and Deeds and the ministry needs to be preached through all the inhabited Earth.

To accomplish all those things I think it would be considered some kind of Work or Deeds of Godly devotion.
I would consider observing all Jesus commands, doing good deeds, or producing fruits that befit repentance, do you agree?

Hi Walter.
Do you believe the Paul verses you quoted are justification requirements ?
If so, then is Paul contradicting Titu 3:5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:21,24-28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1 ?

 

[LoveYeshua]

I follow the gospel of the Lord Jesus. The main point is that thge Lord Jesus came to save those that the Father gave Him to save (the elect of God). So He saves every one of the elect of God, who were all chosen before the earth was created. Nobody's name can be added to His book and nobody's name can be removed.

So, salvation is of the Lord. It has nothiung to doi with whart you choose or reject. Our choice and free will are illusions, they don't exist because we are all born dead in sin, as such we are slaves to sin and satan, and there is no freedom aor choice available to satans prisoners.

The only thing we can do is evil continuisly, and we remain dead in our sin for all eternity if God didn't choose to save us before He created the world.

free will an illusion?

here is what God says about it please read closely and let the Words of GOD SINK IN.

The Choice of Life and Death​

Deu 30:11 For this commandment I give you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.

Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?’

Deu 30:13 And it is not beyond the sea, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?’

Deu 30:14 But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it.

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before you today life and goodness, as well as death and disaster.

Deu 30:16 For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and increase, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land that you are entering to possess.

Deu 30:17 But if your heart turns away and you do not listen, but are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them,

Deu 30:18 I declare to you today that you will surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, so that you and your descendants may live,

Deu 30:20 and that you may love the LORD your God, obey Him, and hold fast to Him. For He is your life, and He will prolong your life in the land that the LORD swore to give to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

Jesus Obeyed and did his fathers Will so we must do the same because we Love him. But it is a choice that is put before us. What we decide determines the outcome, choose wisely.

 

[rvmb]

free will an illusion?

here is what God says about it please read closely and let the Words of GOD SINK IN.

The Choice of Life and Death​

Deu 30:11 For this commandment I give you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.

Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?’

Deu 30:13 And it is not beyond the sea, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?’

Deu 30:14 But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it.

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before you today life and goodness, as well as death and disaster.

Deu 30:16 For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and increase, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land that you are entering to possess.

Deu 30:17 But if your heart turns away and you do not listen, but are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them,

Deu 30:18 I declare to you today that you will surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, so that you and your descendants may live,

Deu 30:20 and that you may love the LORD your God, obey Him, and hold fast to Him. For He is your life, and He will prolong your life in the land that the LORD swore to give to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

Jesus Obeyed and did his fathers Will so we must do the same because we Love him. But it is a choice that is put before us. What we decide determines the outcome, choose wisely.

What you need to read is who Christ chose to teach salvation to believers today :-
Acts 9:15, Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2 :7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16
Will you next claim that Job was saved by the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel ?

 

[walter]

Hi Walter.
Do you believe the Paul verses you quoted are justification requirements ?
If so, then is Paul contradicting Titu 3:5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:21,24-28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1 ?

one scripture says believe in Jesus and get Everlasting life. John 3:16
one scripture says get baptized and you'll be saved. Mark 16:16
one scripture says salvation is a free gift. Ephesians 2:8-9
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Matt 7:21
one says "works of the law" do not give salvation. Galatians 2:16
one says Jesus is the author of Salvation for all those obeying him. Hebrews 5:9
one says observe all the things that I have commanded you. Matthew 28:20
one says salvation does not come from any works. Titus 35
one says always have plenty to do in the work of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 15:58
one says faith without works is dead. James 2:14-26
one says my brother and my sister are the ones that read the word of God and put it into practice. Luke 8:21
By their fruits you will recognize them. Matthew 7:16
Let us not become weary in doing good... Galatians 6:9
Some will "not see life" John 3:36, Matthew 7:14
But he who endures to the end shall be saved. NKJV Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, Hebrews 10:36

Would you say that each scripture is "A Piece of Truth" that we should include in our understanding?

Do you believe the Paul verses you quoted are justification requirements ?

No. they are pieces of Truth in the Bible and should be included in our understanding, shouldn't they?

1. I believe in the first place, salvation is a free gift, Jesus is the one that paid the price for our Salvation.
2. and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him. NIV Hebrews 5:9

 

[rvmb]

one scripture says believe in Jesus and get Everlasting life.
one scripture says get baptized and you'll be saved
one scripture says salvation is a free gift
one says only the one doing the will of my father will be saved
one says "works of the law" do not give salvation.
one says Jesus is the author of Salvation for all those obeying him.
one says observe all the things that I have commanded you.
one says salvation does not come from any works.
one says always have plenty to do in the work of the Lord.
one says faith without works is dead.
one says my brother and my sister are the ones that read the word of God and put it into practice.
By their fruits you will recognize them.
Let us not become weary in doing good... Galatians 6:9


Would you say that each scripture is "A Piece of Truth" that we should include in our understanding?


No. they are pieces of Truth in the Bible and should be included in our understanding, shouldn't they?

1. I believe in the first place, salvation is a free gift, Jesus is the one that paid the price for our Salvation.
2. and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him. NIV Hebrews 5:9

Outside of Paul (Rom-Philemon) were does Scripture teach that anyone else has the Christ given Acts 9:15 role of Rom 11:13 Apostle & Rom 15:16 Minister to the Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15 believers ?
Just the verses Walter, let them do the talking :)

 

[walter]

Just the verses Walter, let them do the talking :)

that sounds good.. Let's both list only scriptures and then highlight the words that are relevant to the subject we're discussing.