Revelation 20: 5&6

[Davy]

Just want to brush off your dirt rather, that the 'body of Christ' which are of faith, the sane are the children of Abraham.

They are likewise Abraham's 'seed' one with Christ, because He's the Head and they the body and members of it, period.

Where's your 'true Israel' in all of this??

You have a FOUL MOUTH, which is NOT a sign of a true Christian. You allow your 'emotions' to run wild instead of using your brain with understanding. So keep following those old traditions of men, and see where they get you!

 

[Fred J]

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV

Read your Bible much???

Yes, and you too read, but you don't have the wisdom given from above to understand the context of the Holy Bible.

Galatians 3:
16. Now to Abraham and his 'seed' were the promises made. He said not, And to 'seeds', as of 'many'; but as of 'one', And to thy 'seed', which is 'Christ'.

29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's 'seed', and heirs according to the promise.

Paul is addressing to the Romans Gentile church, as the born again Jews and Gentiles one body of Christ with Jesus Christ, are that one 'seed'.

And not about your nor referring to your, patriarch of Israel 'seeds' as 'many', period

Will suggest humbly, please start again from Sunday school, thank you.

 

[Davy]

Yes, and you too read, but you don't have the wisdom given from above to understand the context of the Holy Bible.

Hot air, showing a lack of Bible study and understanding. I'll not waste my time with your stupid slanderous remarks, may God rebuke you. And welcome to my IGNORE LIST.

 

[Fred J]

You have a FOUL MOUTH, which is NOT a sign of a true Christian. You allow your 'emotions' to run wild instead of using your brain with understanding. So keep following those old traditions of men, and see where they get you!

Only on 'imposters' and 'counterfeits' who 'twist' the scripture and sound doctrine of the Holy Bible repeatedly.

You're kid and talking like kid about 'foul mouth' and who's way off just to get an escape artist's sympathy.

You deliberately ignore the scripture and explanation in our defense i've posted and continue in your false claims and likewise 'foul mouth' judging me.

 

[Fred J]

Hot air, showing a lack of Bible study and understanding. I'll not waste my time with your stupid slanderous remarks, may God rebuke you. And welcome to my IGNORE LIST.

You can't respond to the scripture that debunked your 'gibberish' and 'fallacy' claims, but rather want to get personal and likewise have a foul mouth too.

Well am sent not to please 'bullies' and 'itching ears', so you're welcome to put me in your ignore list, thank you.

 

[Fred J]

Readers, am here for the scripture and sound doctrine of the Holy Bible.

If you're going to post something outside the text and made up by men doctrine, we will expose that one is a 'liar' and GOD is the 'truth', period

In return don't turn out to be a 'fox' and do the 'blame game' and diverting to something else even personal, when you can't defend your false claims.

We're built in the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets in the Holy Bible(2Timothy3:16&17), and not of any denominational of men.

 

[Fred J]

Hot air, showing a lack of Bible study and understanding. I'll not waste my time with your stupid slanderous remarks, may God rebuke you. And welcome to my IGNORE LIST.

Readers, my defense is very clear scripturally and by doctrine, and nothing to hide.

There are those who 'copy' and 'paste' our scripture to suite their denominational doctrine, while ignore what's truly of the Apostles' we're defending.

Then when they're cornered, as 'escape artist' they transform on another approach to convince further their lies, and finally the sympathy approach.

The Apostles are very clear that the body of Christ or church, must be able to distinguish between the 'spirit of truth' and the 'spirit of error'.

False and lukewarm and itching ear believers love to listen to 'false prophet' because they only bring favorable news and doctrine to please.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you know scripturally the 'body of Christ' in the beginning were to known as the 'followers of the way', and then they were declared as 'Christians'.

Not according to your non scriptural new age nobodies made up words like, 'true Israel' or 'true Jerusalem', which is 'lame'.

yes i know they were declared as chris tains , i beleive first in antioch , i beleive chapter twelve of acts .
As far as true israel or true jerusalem , would Heavenly have been a better word .
cause there is a jerusalem that is in BONDAGE with her children which is earthen
THEN there is HEAVENLY JERUSALEM , wherein GOD and the LAMB are the temple.
And if one is not part of that , the heavenly , oh dear they only in da erkness and remain in bondage and death .
THE FLESH profits nothing . DO KEEP that in mind . ITS JESUS preaching time FRED J .
for whether one is born g entile or was born jew
No faith IN JESUS CHRIST means NO FAITH IN GOD and to not beleive
the testimony that GOD gave OF the SON
WELL any jew or g entile who does that , calls GOD , calls God a LIAR .
NOT the shoes any jew or gentile wants to be in at all .

 

[Fred J]

yes i know they were declared as chris tains , i beleive first in antioch , i beleive chapter twelve of acts .

That's the truth and is written in the Holy Bible.

As far as true israel or true jerusalem ,

Where are these words of yours written in the scripture??

cause there is a jerusalem that is in BONDAGE with her children which is earthen
THEN there is HEAVENLY JERUSALEM , wherein GOD and the LAMB are the temple.

But we cannot include 'all Israel' in bondage, because by the will of GOD, blindness in part has come upon them.

And moreover too, deliberately GOD consigned them to disobedience for the sake of the Gentiles' salvation through the Gospel.

And when the full number of the Gentiles in salvation have come in, by this 'all Israel shall be saved' in the end.

By the same mercy GOD shown to the Gentiles, the same HE will show to 'all Israel' in the end, and HE'll take away their sins.

As for those who are in bondage and of Hagar, are the 'heathens' like her generation the world, which loves it's own.

Why do we say the world loves it's own one with the generation of Hagar??

For example, as you can witness about Palestine's false claims and evil cause, to push Israel the people of GOD from their land to the sea, is supported by the world.

Like Jesus said and is written, "The god of this world(satan) have blinded the minds of unbelievers."

And if one is not part of that , the heavenly , oh dear they only in da erkness and remain in bondage and death .

Yes i agree in regards all Gentiles or Heathens, but not 'all Israel' the apple of HIS eye.

THE FLESH profits nothing . DO KEEP that in mind . ITS JESUS preaching time FRED J .

Yes, for the Gentiles and the remnant of Jews who are meant to be saved under the election of grace.

 

[Fred J]

It's very sad too why the church unable to understand Christ given to Paul to serve us, the mystery about the 'unsaved Israel' according to Romans ch. 11.

If we, beginning also with the remnant of Israel, were saved under the election of grace and through faith, the gift of GOD and not of ourselves.

We were also like rebellious Israel, even the saved remnant of Israel, once 'blind', and GOD made us 'born again' or 'born from above' in order to 'see' HIS Kingdom

When in these last days HE decided to speak to Israel first, then us Gentiles, by HIS Son and the Holy Ghost, as HE will and planned this before the foundation of the world.

Since Israel's rebellion against the Gospel and their Messiah, hence GOD showed us Gentiles 'mercy' that we should be saved by the Gospel?

According to the same chapter, it's GOD's will that blindness in part is happened to Israel, and moreover who conclude them all(unsaved Israel) in unbelief.

For the sake of the Gentiles and until the full number of them in this world have come in saved, and then finally GOD extends HIS 'mercy' to all unsaved Israel?

Even without ministering and witnessing our Gospel to them and without their repentance(v.29), that HE'll take away their sins in the end(v.26&27)?

Even when scripturally only in the last days 'two witnesses' will be sent to Israel, therefore do you think they'll minister and witness our Gospel of salvation to them?

Then what about the rest of the blind and unsaved Israel prior to the last days generation, who died cum buried without hearing our Gospel and not saved?

Apparently it makes no sense that 'all' the 'unsaved Israel' shall be saved by our Gospel calling. for repentance and salvation.

But rather the last days generation of Israel will be ministered and witnessed the Gospel which brings them conviction, that they and their fathers have rejected and crucified their true Messiah.

To that they'll probably repent and receive the 'mercy' of GOD and the reconciliation with GOD in the end.

i strongly believe this in my spirit because in the book of Acts, the Apostles ministered and witnessed to the leaders of Israel, firstly the Gospel of conviction rejecting and crucifying their true Messiah.

i believe during this time, Paul who's probably there was convicted as well but yet not convinced, hence until he had a personal encounter with the Lord.

For the record, things that are not in the Holy Bible and just my spirit, are just to be taken into consideration and not justification.

Thank you and shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[rebuilder 454]

But you did agree to amigo's claim, that the spiritual Mt Zion is in Heaven.

How about agreeing on the contrary, that the spiritual Mt Zion of Heaven is here on earth and in us the 'body of Christ/church, as apparently for the Kingdom of GOD is 'at hand'.

And for every true born again who've attained it here on earth, whereby spiritually they worship the ABBA/FATHER in spirit and truth.

This what Jesus promised the Samaritan women, who in time passed they worship at Mt Sinai and the Jews in the Temple.

Rev 14
Mt zion in heaven.
Hard to wiggle out of that.

 

[PinSeeker]

...made up words like, 'true Israel' or 'true Jerusalem', which is 'lame'.

Fred, grace and peace to you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a "true Israel," clearly, in God's Word, although those exact words don't appear.

Paul says in Romans 2:28-29 the following:

"For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."​

And then in Romans 9:6-8, 23-24:

"But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring...vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory⁠ ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles..."​

And then in Romans 11:25-26:

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved..."​

So, there is a true Israel, so to speak, which is to say the Israel of God, and true Jews of God, who are not of the Israel of God merely because they are ethnically Jewish, but "children of the promise" through Isaac, and of all ethnicities ~ a great multitude from every tongue, tribe, and people group, and circumcised by the Holy Spirit. "True Israel" is to be understood as consisting of all those called by God and born again of the Spirit of God. This is the true household of God, His Israel.

Again, grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

@Fred J

And now back to Revelation 20 and the resurrection... <smile>

Yes, the mention in Revelation 20:4-5 of a first resurrection strongly implies that there is a second resurrection. The difference between the two is that... well:

First resurrection: Spiritual and individual in nature, when, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:5-6, we, each at our own appointed time, are "made... alive together with Christ⁠... and raised up with Him and seated... with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." This is how we, as John says in Revelation 20:6, are "blessed and holy" and "share in the first resurrection" and thus "the second death has no power" over us "but (are) priests of God and of Christ, and... reign with Him (during these) thousand years."

Second Resurrection: Physical and general in nature, when, as John says in John 5:28-29, happens at the "...hour... coming when all who are in the tombs hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." So, all will be physically resurrected after the close of these "thousand years," God's millennium, which is not literally one thousand earth years but the fullness of God's time in which, again, as Paul says in Romans 11:25-26, "the fullness of the Gentiles is brought into God's Israel and the partial hardening that is now on Israel is completely removed and thus all of God's Israel saved."

And after this second resurrection, the final Judgment will occur, which Jesus portrays graphically in Matthew 25:31-46... and John "shows us" in his vision in Revelation 20:11-15.

You see?

Grace and peace to you, my friend.

 

[Luther7]

5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of GOD and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Dear readers,

The scripture reads, 'first resurrection', and not, 'the resurrection', could it be there's a 'second resurrection' after the 'thousand years'?

Also it reads, 'But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished'.

In other words, there's no resurrection of the dead until the thousand years were finished?

We know the second coming of Jesus will be until the clouds, where the dead in Christ shall rise and the living, both will be changed, and taken up to meet Him in the clouds.

Therefore this is the 'first resurrection' which takes place after the Great Tribulation, where the church saints came out of it persecuted dead or alive.

Then His third coming with His angels on earth to confront the beast and kings of the earth, and their armies, who'll wage war.

Furthermore it reads, 'Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such second death hath no power'.

Looks like not all who are in Christ hath part in the first resurrection, as also relating to the parable, 'one will be taken while the other left behind' and the 'ten virgins'.

So the church left behind will face a thousand years, hence the second death hath power over them?

Thank you and shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

The Bible does not teach that there is a " second resurrection". Anyone who takes part in the " first resurrection" is resurrected unto eternal life, and will not experience the " second death", which is the death of the soul.
So because there is one resurrection of all humanity at the last day of this world, the "second death" is the "resurrection of damnation", as we read in John 5:28-29:

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice 29 and shall come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation.

I strongly believe that in that day whatever remains of the bodies of the unsaved dead will literally be resurrected and fill the face of the earth. It could be a body that was just buried or tiny particles of a body from a thousand years ago. It will all be on the surface of the earth.

So then I do not believe the unsaved will be resurrected into a new body that will be capable of enduring millions of years ( for ever and ever) of fiery torture and torment. And Jesus does confirm this:

Matthew 10:28:
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

When you study the word " hell" ( in both Testaments) you will find out that it is a reference to " the grave" or " death".

And it is a very sombering topic to discuss. My hope is that everyone I know and love ( including myself) is saved and ready to live for ever. The New World Order ( great tribulation) is fast approaching. May God have mercy on us.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Bible does not teach that there is a " second resurrection". Anyone who takes part in the " first resurrection" is resurrected unto eternal life, and will not experience the " second death", which is the death of the soul.
So because there is one resurrection of all humanity at the last day of this world, the "second death" is the "resurrection of damnation", as we read in John 5:28-29:

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice 29 and shall come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation.

I strongly believe that in that day whatever remains of the bodies of the unsaved dead will literally be resurrected and fill the face of the earth. It could be a body that was just buried or tiny particles of a body from a thousand years ago. It will all be on the surface of the earth.

So then I do not believe the unsaved will be resurrected into a new body that will be capable of enduring millions of years ( for ever and ever) of fiery torture and torment. And Jesus does confirm this:

Matthew 10:28:
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

When you study the word " hell" ( in both Testaments) you will find out that it is a reference to " the grave" or " death".

And it is a very sombering topic to discuss. My hope is that everyone I know and love ( including myself) is saved and ready to live for ever. The New World Order ( great tribulation) is fast approaching. May God have mercy on us.

The great white throne judgement is after the millennium. And it says "the sea gave up her dead." Which means there's a resurrection, at the end, to the great white throne judgement, which is the judgment of the entire planet.
The second resurrection.

 

[Luther7]

Just as with many passages in Christ's Book of Revelation, many brethren for some reason 'forget' what they read in the rest of The Bible.

What did Apostle Paul teach that happens on the day of Christ's future return? what did Lord Jesus say will happen on the day of His future return?

In John 5:28-29, Lord Jesus showed on the day of His future coming ALL... in the graves will come forth, either unto the "resurrection of life", or unto the "resurrection of damnation." That ends any debate about there being another later raising of the dead after the "thousand years."

In 1 Corinthians 15:53-54, Apostle Paul showed on the "last trump", which is the final day of this world when Jesus returns, ALL will be 'changed' to the "spiritual body". In the Greek of those verses Paul reveals this, because English Bible translations did not bring that idea forth into the English there. The difference will be those in Christ will put on "immortality", their souls being made immortal and can never die, while the unsaved souls will still be "mortal" and liable to perish at the "second death".

What perishes at the "second death" is one's spirit with soul, not one's flesh body. The future resurrection and glorious body is not about getting a new flesh body. On the day of Christ's future return, this present time of flesh bodies will be over. The body type for the world to come will be a "spiritual body". It will depend on the condition of one's soul that will determine whether they have eternal life in Christ or instead perish at the "second death".

Davy, well said. I agree. And I think because you have " thousand years" in quotations you don't believe it's a literal thousand years.
In this time of apostasy I think the toughest barricade to break through is that teaching.

 

[Luther7]

The great white throne judgement is after the millennium. And it says "the sea gave up her dead." Which means there's a resurrection, at the end, to the great white throne judgement, which is the judgment of the entire planet.
The second resurrection.

Hello. When you compare scripture with scripture, you will not find anywhere the teaching of a " second resurrection". If you find anything, please let me know.

 

[Luther7]

The idea that there will still be people in flesh bodies, having children, etc., during Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect is a Jewish myth. It's an idea of those who have difficulty understanding that the only... body type of the world to come will be the "spiritual body" Paul taught. That is the body type of the future resurrection Paul showed, and it is not just for those of the 1st resurrection. It will be the body type of the unsaved also. There won't be any marriage, nor having children after Jesus returns.

Thus the Rev.20:5 verse is NOT about the wicked dead being raised after the "thousand years", nor about unsaved dying during the thousand years being raised after the thousand years. When Lord Jesus returns on the last day of this world, the concept of FLESH DEATH will be over and no more.

The Rev.20:5 verse is about a 2nd resurrection of putting on Christ by those preached to all throughout the "thousand years", and they convert to Jesus Christ and thus become "born again", and joined with the 1st resurrection saints after the thousand years, after they are tested by the devil who is loosed one final time after the thousand years.

What kind of idea was Lord Jesus referring with the below?

Matt 23:27
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
KJV

Luke 11:44
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
KJV

John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
KJV

John 3:5-6
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV

Lord Jesus in the above revealed His Salvation is to our 'spirit' by The Holy Spirit, not with a new flesh body. He showed those scribes and Pharisees against Him were 'spiritually dead' inside their flesh, even while they were yet alive walking around. It relates to the "second death" of one's spirit with soul at the final Judgment. During the future "thousand years", that "second death" is the only type of death that will remain. Flesh death will no longer exist after Christ's return.

Apostle Paul revealed this in the Greek of 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 with 4 different Greek words with 4 different meanings. Just as how it is today with man in flesh bodies, some of us have been "born again" by Faith on Jesus Christ, while others are spiritually dead for not having been "born again", meaning their 'spirit' by The Holy Spirit. Paul showed the mortal souls of the resurrected wicked will still be in a 'liable to die' condition, subject to the "second death". We all will manifest with the "spiritual body", but not all souls will be made immortal. Only those of the 1st resurrection when Jesus comes will have their souls made immortal. However, we ALL, the unsaved too, will manifest with the "spiritual body". Many preachers make the mistake of thinking that only those of Christ's Church will be given the "spiritual body". They do not heed what Paul taught in those 53-54 verses that it will be the condition of one's soul that will determine whether they perish or not. The "spiritual body" is simply a body type for manifesting in the heavenly dimension. It does not mean automatic Salvation in Christ.

"The idea that there will still be people in flesh bodies, having children, etc., during Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect is a Jewish myth."

So yes, I definitely agree with you . It is a teaching found in another religious text that made it's way into the Christian church.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Hello. When you compare scripture with scripture, you will not find anywhere the teaching of a " second resurrection". If you find anything, please let me know.

The sea gave up her dead.
The dead in Christ are raised from the dead.

Two separate resurrections.

If you can go against that, let me know.

 

[rebuilder 454]

"The idea that there will still be people in flesh bodies, having children, etc., during Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect is a Jewish myth."

So yes, I definitely agree with you . It is a teaching found in another religious text that made it's way into the Christian church.

No.
You are way off.
Your teaching made it's way into the church as error.