The First Resurrection

[ewq1938]

Was Enoch appointed once to die? Was Elijah? Neither one died, so how do you reconcile that with the verse?

There are exceptions. Some never die a physical death, some die twice. Most will die once.

We know that it is appointed unto every single person (no exceptions) to come into this world dead in trespasses and sins, which most people would call spiritually dead.

So we can either go with your version and write an exception clause to cover Enoch and Elijah, plus the millions who get raptured if you hold to that. Or we can go with the death that comes first in a person's life and not have to invent exceptions to make it work.

I'm sticking with the latter.

The verse about being appointed to die is about physical death not a spiritual death.

 

[David in NJ]

The fact remains that the context of Rev 20 is about two resurrections of the dead. The first resurrection refers to the first group that is resurrected.

The fact remains:
JESUS is the Resurrection
JESUS is the Alpha and the Omega
JESUS is the Beginning and the End

What does it mean that JESUS is the Alpha and the Omega???


Also:
No JESUS = no First Resurrection
Know JESUS = Know First Resurrection

 

[WPM]

The fact remains that the context of Rev 20 is about two resurrections of the dead. The first resurrection refers to the first group that is resurrected.

Yes: spiritual resurrection in this life, and physical resurrection at the second coming after Satan's little season.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This shows Lazaurus was resurrected before Jesus, and that Jesus does not say he is the first resurrection.

Jesus was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality. That's the context of verses like these...

Acts 26:23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I’m glad you brought that up because I believe it applies to all believers. I think, although I can’t say for sure, that the second death is literally the second death. The first death is the condition we’re born in and the second death is when we die.

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead (condition we’re born in) bury their dead (people who died).

No, the second death will occur when Jesus returns in the future. That is when unbelievers will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), which is also called the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15). The first death is our physical death. Those who are figuratively dead in their sins and not born again will eventually suffer the second death when Jesus returns in the future.

 

[ewq1938]

The fact remains:
JESUS is the Resurrection
JESUS is the Alpha and the Omega
JESUS is the Beginning and the End

What does it mean that JESUS is the Alpha and the Omega???


Also:
No JESUS = no First Resurrection
Know JESUS = Know First Resurrection

None of that affects the context of Rev 20 being about the first of two groups to resurrect. That is what the first resurrection is, the first group to resurrect. Jesus is not being called the first resurrection in Rev 20.

 

[IndianaRob]

There are exceptions. Some never die a physical death, some die twice. Most will die once.





The verse about being appointed to die is about physical death not a spiritual death.

Every one of us, without exception, is born into the condition the Bible calls dead. That fits the verse exactly. No twisting, no bending, no exceptions needed.

And Jesus said whoever believes in him will never die, which harmonizes completely with reading that other verse as the condition we're born into rather than the death of the body. I know you'll say it means the second death, because that's the standard answer.

So you've got two verses that say one thing, and both of them have to be bent or added to in order to fit the other reading. It's like trimming puzzle pieces to make them fit. You can get them in, but the picture doesn't look like the picture anymore.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If I had to take a stab of the seven stars (messengers) to the seven candlesticks (churches)...

Original messenger - Church

1. Peter - Messianic
2. Paul - Early Gentile
3. Constantine - Greek Orthodox
4. Theodosius I - Catholic
5. Martin Luther - Protestant
6. John Wesley - The revived church (Methodist - Pentecostal)
7. Robert Shuller - The Country Club

One Church... Millions of congregations...
1. Ephesus - Messianic Jewish Church
2. Smyrna - Oriental Orthodox - The Roman persecutions were ten
3. Pergamos - Greek Orthodox - Pergos... A tower... Needed in the dark ages
4. Thyatira - Catholic - Middle ages
5. Sardis - Protestant - A sardis is a gem... Beautiful,,, Not much spiritually
6. Philadelphia - Wesleyan - Too bad the revivals didn't last longer
7. Laodicean - Word of Faith - Rich and have need of nothing?

Seven candlesticks - Seven generalized congregation - All unique - And Christ walking in the midst
Seven seals - Those names written in the Lambs Book of Life
Seven stars - Those messengers to the congregations

I believe the Lambs Book of Life must be sealed with the seven seals for the first resurrection to take place. Once the entire church is sealed it will be time for the trumpets to sound and

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on - 1 Corinthians 15

Once those trumpets sound, and the tribulation occurs as outlined in Revelation, then we will return with Christ to reign with him a thousand years...

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 2:6

This is all wild, baseless speculation. The book of Revelation was addressed to seven actual churches within the ancient Roman province of Asia in the first century. There's no basis for seeing them as representing anything beyond that.

 

[ewq1938]

Every one of us, without exception, is born into the condition the Bible calls dead. That fits the verse exactly.

Born dead is not the same as being appointed to die which means alive first then dying. Being born dead does not fit.

And Jesus said whoever believes in him will never die, which harmonizes completely with reading that other verse as the condition we're born into rather than the death of the body. I know you'll say it means the second death, because that's the standard answer.

It is the correct answer. All die physically, except for a few exceptions.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes.

Did Jesus or any other scripture say Jesus is the first resurrection?

Yes or No answer please, thank you.

Yes, other scripture describes Jesus as being the first resurrection. The only other verse in scripture that contains the Greek words "protos" (first) and "anastasia" (resurrection) together besides in Revelation 20 is this one....

Acts 26:23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first (protos) to rise (anastasis) from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

In 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 Paul gives the order of bodily resurrections with Christ's being first in order and then next in order being those who belong to Him at His second coming. The context is in relation to resurrections unto bodily immortality. Christ's was the first resurrection unto bodily immortality. You keep saying that Lazarus was resurrected before Jesus but he later died, so you are missing the context of the sense in which Jesus is the first resurrection.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The first resurrection in that passage is clearly speaking about a group of saved dead being resurrected by Jesus. Not sure how anyone can deny that.

Not sure how anyone can deny that Jesus's resurrection was the first resurrection when scripture explicitly teaches that (Acts 26:23, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, Colossians 1:18, Revelation 1:5), so that means having part in the first resurrection must involve having part in Christ's resurrection. And it does.

Colossians 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

We have part in His resurrection when we go from being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins to being spiritually "alive together with Him". That is what makes it so that the second death has no power over us (Revelation 20:6). It's not being bodily resurrected from the dead that makes it so that the second death has no power over us, it's having part in Christ's resurrection by identifying spiritually with His death and then being made alive spiritually by being "raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead". If being bodily resurrected from the dead was the means by which the second death had no power over us, then that would mean those who are alive and remain when Jesus returns would be out of luck because they will not be bodily resurrected since they obviously would not be physically dead.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You do not get it do you?

He did not conquer the grave. He did not overcome death. Jesus did. He was the first.

You are always trying to diminish the first resurrection of Christ.

He is so lacking in discernment that he can't even recognize in what sense that Jesus's resurrection was the first. And, apparently, verses like Acts 26:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 are not in his Bible. Comparing the resurrection of Lazarus to the resurrection of Christ the way he does is ludicrous. As if there is any comparison? Lazarus later died and Jesus obviously did not as His resurrection was the first unto bodily immortality. So, the mass bodily resurrection that will occur when Jesus returns cannot be the first resurrection in order since Paul indicated that Christ's resurrection itself was the first in order (1 Corinthians 15:22-23).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You quote Rev 20:6 out of context, as usual, as your theology denies scripture. No surprise as you also deny Rev 20:6 and its 1000 year reign on earth. You’ll see and learn soon enough, better start taking Jesus at His Word.

LOL. Look at you acting as if you are authoritative about scripture, which you are not. Do you deny that Christ's resurrection was the first resurrection despite scripture explicitly saying so in verses like Acts 26:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:20-23?

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Tell me, is a bodily resurrection required in order for the second death to not have power over you? Does the second death have power over you right now? Yes or no? Does it have power over the dead in Christ right now? Yes or no? The correct answer is no to both questions, so that means all Christians, whether physically dead or alive, have had part in the first resurrection since the second death has no power over any Christians, dead or alive. And we all have had part in Christ's resurrection spiritually by going from being dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ.

 

[Davy]

And so Moses and Elijah were not... resurrected when Jesus was transfigured and spoke to them, as seen by His Apostles? What exactly is it that is resurrected anyway. Jesus' flesh was raised, but ours will not be. That's why Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, because neither does corruption (flesh) inherit incorruption (spirit body of the resurrection).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And so Moses and Elijah were not... resurrected when Jesus was transfigured and spoke to them, as seen by His Apostles?

No, they were not bodily resurrected. Scripture is clear that Jesus was the first to be bodily resurrected unto bodily immortality (Acts 26:23, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23).

What exactly is it that is resurrected anyway. Jesus' flesh was raised, but ours will not be.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Scripture says that our corruptible and mortal natural bodies will be resurrected and changed into incorruptible and immortal spiritual bodies like Jesus already has.

That's why Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, because neither does corruption (flesh) inherit incorruption (spirit body of the resurrection).

Paul was saying that corruptible and mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That doesn't mean our changed incorruptible and immortal bodies can't have flesh and/or blood in order to inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Davy]

No, they were not bodily resurrected. Scripture is clear that Jesus was the first to be bodily resurrected unto bodily immortality (Acts 26:23, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23).

What do you mean by "bodily resurrected". Do you actually think the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught for the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 is not a type of body??

It's obvious the primitive tribal thinking you have about the resurrection. You think our flesh body is raised from the casket. It is not. Only Lord Jesus' flesh body did not see corruption, and it was at some point quickened to a spirit body, as written in 1 Cor.15 and 1 Peter 3.

 

[IndianaRob]

No, the second death will occur when Jesus returns in the future. That is when unbelievers will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), which is also called the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15). The first death is our physical death. Those who are figuratively dead in their sins and not born again will eventually suffer the second death when Jesus returns in the future.

I'm with you on the second death. Where we differ is on the first, and on two other things: whether Paul was including himself in "we which are alive and remain," and what Jesus meant when he said whoever believes in him will never die.

So I don't have a counter to what you've said here.

 

[IndianaRob]

Born dead is not the same as being appointed to die which means alive first then dying. Being born dead does not fit.





It is the correct answer. All die physically, except for a few exceptions.

I would like to get your view on what Paul said.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul includes himself in those who would be alive and translated when Jesus comes. For his words to be true, either Paul somehow lives until a second coming still in our future, or he meant Jesus would come for him when it was his time to leave this world.

That second reading lines up with what Jesus said, that whoever believes in him will never die.

 

[WPM]

Not sure how anyone can deny that Jesus's resurrection was the first resurrection when scripture explicitly teaches that (Acts 26:23, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, Colossians 1:18, Revelation 1:5), so that means having part in the first resurrection must involve having part in Christ's resurrection. And it does.

Colossians 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

We have part in His resurrection when we go from being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins to being spiritually "alive together with Him". That is what makes it so that the second death has no power over us (Revelation 20:6). It's not being bodily resurrected from the dead that makes it so that the second death has no power over us, it's having part in Christ's resurrection by identifying spiritually with His death and then being made alive spiritually by being "raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead". If being bodily resurrected from the dead was the means by which the second death had no power over us, then that would mean those who are alive and remain when Jesus returns would be out of luck because they will not be bodily resurrected since they obviously would not be physically dead.

He cannot deviate off what he has been taught. The needle is stuck.

 

[Davy]

I'm with you on the second death. Where we differ is on the first, and on two other things: whether Paul was including himself in "we which are alive and remain," and what Jesus meant when he said whoever believes in him will never die.

So I don't have a counter to what you've said here.

He is still wrong IndianRob, because the "second death", as written in Rev.20, does not occur until after... Jesus' future "thousand years" reign with His elect. Where he is coming from is men's false doctrine called Amillennialism, which rejects any idea of a future literal 1,000 years reign by Christ and His elect.