Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[David in NJ]

I disagree. Matthew 24:15, contains the Greek words for “holy place”. Since, I don’t speak original koine Greek, I’ll appeal to Thayer’s, whose lexicon has the holy place meaning the temple building in Matthew 24:15.

• a. an inhabited place, as a city, village, district: Luke 4:37; Luke 10:1; Acts 12:12; Acts 16:3; Acts 27:2, 8; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Thessalonians 1:8; Revelation 18:17 (G L T Tr WH); τόντόπον καί τό ἔθνος, the place which the nation inhabit, i. e. the holy land and the Jewish people, John 11:48 (cf. 2 Macc. 5:19f); τόπος ἅγιος, the temple (which the Sept. of Isa. Ix. 13 calls ὁ ἅγιος τόπος τοῦΘεοῦ), Matthew 24:15.

This understanding of the word as the temple is supported by the context - Jesus answering the disciples question about when the temple destruction would occur.

JESUS said the earthbound Temple in Jerusalem was to be destroyed.

Question: Why did JESUS have the Holy Place destroyed?

 

[claninja]

Question: Why did JESUS have the Holy Place destroyed?

Does Jesus say why the temple is destroyed in Matthew 24?

 

[David in NJ]

Does Jesus say why the temple is destroyed in Matthew 24?

Good Afternoon and GREAT question = Thank You

Matthew ch24 is not a stand-alone chapter but is Dependent on all that was previously Spoken by Christ to His disciples.

God's Question to us is: "What did my SON Speak of concerning the reason for the destruction of that temple in Jerusalem"?

 

[claninja]

Good Afternoon and GREAT question = Thank You

Matthew ch24 is not a stand-alone chapter but is Dependent on all that was previously Spoken by Christ to His disciples.

God's Question to us is: "What did my SON Speak of concerning the reason for the destruction of that temple in Jerusalem"?

ok, well then you are going beyond my original argument, which was about matthew 24.

 

[David in NJ]

ok, well then you are going beyond my original argument, which was about matthew 24.

God is All about getting us to trust Him and thereby going Beyond our limited understanding.

Together with Christ we can SEE from His Word that HE has All the Answers to our questions.

Shalom

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


I mainly want to focus on this portion---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

A) a time before the millennium begins

B) a time during the millennium

C) a time after the millennium ends

During which of these, A), B) and C), can we assume they are martyred because they did none of these things at the time?

Does it make sense they can be martyred during A) for refusing to do this? Yes.


What about during C)? No.

That leaves B). What about during B) then? No. And here are some reasons why.

In order to be martyred for the reasons they are, it involves everything in Revelation 13 having been fulfilled. Except how could anything in Revelation 13 involve the millennium when both Premil and Amil have satan in the pit during the millennium, and that Amil also has the beast in the pit during the millennium?

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.


Does this sound like the beast is still in the pit at this point? Until the beast rises up out of the sea, where is it logically located in the meantime if not in the pit? And why can't 'sea' here simply be code for the bottomless pit? Compare Revelation 13:1 with Revelation 17:3, 8.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up (anabaino) out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns , and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy


Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend (anabaino) out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.



In my opinion, the 10 crowns upon the 10 horns that are all on the head that was wounded and is healed, can be explained per the following. After all, do not crowns and kings go together.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Based on all of the above, and what else can be added to the OP that hasn't been added yet, how is it reasonable that Amil can be a valid view? Revelation, plus passages elsewhere outside of Revelation, reveal that it is the 42 month reign of the beast that precede the 2nd coming. Therefore, in order for Amil to be a valid position, the 42 month reign of the beast must occur during satan's little season. But how can it when Revelation 20:4 already reveals that the 42 month reign of thebeast precede satan's little season?

A+B+C = No Millennium Exist In Scripture, it's a man made fairy tale

 

[David in NJ]

A+B+C = No Millennium Exist In Scripture, it's a man made fairy tale

Brother, NEVER mock God's words

A.) Genesis 5:5 - "So Adam lived a total of 930 (literal) years, and then he died."

B.) Luke 18:29-30 So He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

PROPHECY = Do NOT mock GOD's PROPHECY = Revelation 2:24-29
But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—
as I also have received from My Father; and I will give him the morning star.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

C.) Revelation 20:4-6 = PROPHECY FULFILLED at His Second Coming
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[Marty fox]

JESUS said the earthbound Temple in Jerusalem was to be destroyed.

Question: Why did JESUS have the Holy Place destroyed?

Luke 19
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

 

[Truth7t7]

Brother, NEVER mock God's words

A.) Genesis 5:5 - "So Adam lived a total of 930 (literal) years, and then he died."

B.) Luke 18:29-30 So He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

PROPHECY = Do NOT mock GOD's PROPHECY = Revelation 2:24-29
But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—
as I also have received from My Father; and I will give him the morning star.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

C.) Revelation 20:4-6 = PROPHECY FULFILLED at His Second Coming
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Jesus returns in fire destroying all the wicked (The End) don't try to change God's clear words below

"Destroyed Them All" When The Son Of Man Is Revealed!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 19
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

YES YES YES Brother Marty,

i was going to post this same scripture but wanted member clanja to reply.

Big Thank You Marty for posting Luke 19

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus returns in fire destroying all the wicked (The End) don't try to change God's clear words below

"Destroyed Them All" When The Son Of Man Is Revealed!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Absolutely

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Absolutely

You agreed with his claim that Jesus will destroy all of the wicked when He returns. But, you have repeatedly indicated that you believe some of the wicked will survive and populate the earth for a thousand years. What gives here? Why did you agree with him about that when that isn't what you believe?

 

[David in NJ]

You agreed with his claim that Jesus will destroy all of the wicked when He returns. But, you have repeatedly indicated that you believe some of the wicked will survive and populate the earth for a thousand years. What gives here? Why did you agree with him about that when that isn't what you believe?

Matthew 4:4 - But Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

 

[Truth7t7]

I

You agreed with his claim that Jesus will destroy all of the wicked when He returns. But, you have repeatedly indicated that you believe some of the wicked will survive and populate the earth for a thousand years. What gives here? Why did you agree with him about that when that isn't what you believe?

I Agree 100%

James 1:8KJV
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matthew 4:4 - But Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Dave I agree with Israelite, you claim a future Millennium will take place at the return of Jesus, and you voice unsaved humans will go into this Millennium?

Dave in the same breath you agree that Jesus returns in fire destroying all the unsaved wicked?

Dave you can't have your cake and eat it too, one is right and one is wrong, and God's words clearly show that when Jesus is revealed it will be in fire (The End) no Millennium following

Jesus returns in fire destroying all the wicked (The End) don't try to change God's clear words below

"Destroyed Them All" When The Son Of Man Is Revealed!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[David in NJ]

Dave I agree with Israelite, you claim a future Millennium will take place at the return of Jesus, and you voice unsaved humans will go into this Millennium?

Dave in the same breath you agree that Jesus returns in fire destroying all the unsaved wicked?

Dave you can't have your cake and eat it too, one is right and one is wrong, and God's words clearly show that when Jesus is revealed it will be in fire (The End) no Millennium following

Jesus returns in fire destroying all the wicked (The End) don't try to change God's clear words below

"Destroyed Them All" When The Son Of Man Is Revealed!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

All who are in Christ are my Brothers and Sisters = we love each other even when we disagree and at times things can get hot.
Christ always calls us back to Himself together as we are members of His Body.

GOD wants everyone to AGREE as well = "we cannot have our cake and eat it too" ​

CHRIST Says to us - here now - TODAY:
"I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

@Spiritual Israelite and @Marty fox - GOD never lies and HE is never double minded

 

[Truth7t7]

All who are in Christ are my Brothers and Sisters = we love each other even when we disagree and at times things can get hot.
Christ always calls us back to Himself together as we are members of His Body.

GOD wants everyone to AGREE as well = "we cannot have our cake and eat it too" ​

CHRIST Says to us - here now - TODAY:
"I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

@Spiritual Israelite and @Marty fox - GOD never lies and HE is never double minded

Please Choose one

1. Do the unsaved wicked enter a millennial kingdom at the Lords return?

Or

2. Are the unsaved wicked destroyed at the Lord's revealing (Destroyed Them All)?

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[ewq1938]

Please Choose one

1. Do the unsaved wicked enter a millennial kingdom at the Lords return?

Rev 19 promises this.

 

[David in NJ]

Please Choose one

1. Do the unsaved wicked enter a millennial kingdom at the Lords return?

Or

2. Are the unsaved wicked destroyed at the Lord's revealing (Destroyed Them All)?

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

JESUS Says Choose ALL = Choose to Believe EVERY Word that proceeds from the Mouth of GOD

JESUS Says: The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. = ALL of them

 

[Truth7t7]

JESUS Says Choose ALL = Choose to Believe EVERY Word that proceeds from the Mouth of GOD

JESUS Says: The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. = ALL of them

You directly avoided the question asked and went into a ramble "Why"?

Please Choose one

1. Do the unsaved wicked enter a millennial kingdom at the Lords return?

Or

2. Are the unsaved wicked destroyed at the Lord's revealing (Destroyed Them All)?

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.