Is it possible to lose salvation?

[rvmb]

I don't remember did you say 2 Timothy 3:16 does not apply to all the scriptures in the New Testament, because it was written before the New Testament was completed?

Please watch this short video let me know what you think, is the information useful or not?

Since Christ taught 2 Tim 3:16 through Paul, ALL Scripture = ALL Scripture :)

 

[rvmb]

And again I ask, why do you limit yourself to the writings of Paul, do any of the other Bible writers count?

"do any of the other Bible writers count?"
ABSOLUTELY, to their respective audiences/age
Was Job saved by the teachings of the 12 ?
Why not, if all the writers count ? :)

 

[LoveYeshua]

"do any of the other Bible writers count?"
ABSOLUTELY, to their respective audiences/age
Was Job saved by the teachings of the 12 ?
Why not, if all the writers count ? :)

You have made yourself clear Paul first and no one else.

 

[walter]

you're

I don't remember, did we talk about 2 Timothy 3:16 ?

 

[rvmb]

You have made yourself clear Paul first and no one else.

Christ made it clear that Paul as Apostle & Minister has the authority to teach Salvation to believers today.
Want the verses, again ?

 

[walter]

Christ made it clear

I agree Christ made it clear!

 

[Christian Soldier]

I agree.

I agree.

Proverbs 14:12
New King James Version
There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

1 Corinthians 2:14
Berean Standard Bible
The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Matthew 7:13
Berean Standard Bible
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

Matthew 13:13-15
New International Version
This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “’You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

John 8:43
New King James Version
Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.

Luke 11:9
New King James Version
“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Proverbs 2:6
King James Bible
For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

John 14:26
New International Version
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Proverbs 8:17
English Standard Version
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Luke 13:24
New International Version
“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

Proverbs 14:12, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Matthew 7:13, Matthew 13:13-15, John 8:43 These scriptures explain the difficulty for many.

Luke 11:9, Proverbs 2:6, John 14:26, Proverbs 8:17, Luke 13:24 These scriptures use words like: knock, and it will be opened to you,
For the LORD giveth wisdom, the Holy Spirit... will teach you all things, and those who seek me diligently find me, make every effort to enter through the narrow door.


Isn't Jesus words here referring to where he is going?

I'm not sure why you listed all of those verses of scripture, but if you are trying to make them say that some "seek", "knock", "enter through the narrow door" etc. then that means that Gods Word contradicts itself. Because we find this in >>>>

Romans 3:10-12 “As it is written:
'There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.' ”.

How do you reconcile these verses with your theory and opinion, that some defy God and do exactly what He said nobody does.
You can appreciate the dilemma your theory creates for me, I'm forced to choose between embracing your theory or what God said, as your theory contradicts Gods Word.

As you would appreciate, the choice is a no brainer for me.

 

[Christian Soldier]

It is not a matter of difference. Scripture says He came to save sinners, not saints. I John 1:10, is this verse in your Bible? How about Rom 3:23?

What is pathetic is that you cannot even defend your own position. Where is your counter statement to the verses cited based on your opinion. You do not understand the English language either. You go so far outside of logic and reason that it makes you sound absurd and ridiculous.

I actually already did. All you do is deny any evidence and make dumb commits like that above without even presenting your opinion rationally. Your comments prove you don't understand your own position enough to counter any contrary statement.

But you have been blinded by the perverted "Arminian" version of the gospel, to the point where you are hallucinating about some non existent verses and I offered you my house to show me one but all you did was show me your perverted interpretation of unrelated verses and you have been pushing demonic doctrine.

I have given you a truck load of verses that prove my theology to be Biblically correct, but all you have offered in your defence of the perverted gospel is lies and perverted interpretations that don't line up with any scripture at all.

Here's what Gods Word reveals about those who pervert His Word.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Can you see what happens when someone rejects the truth of the gospel?. God actually gives them over to a debased mind, then they are unrestrained and they sink to the lowest depths of depravity.

 

[walter]

I'm not sure why you listed all of those verses of scripture, but if you are trying to make them say that some "seek", "knock", "enter through the narrow door" etc. then that means that Gods Word contradicts itself. Because we find this in >>>>

Romans 3:10-12 “As it is written:
'There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.' ”.

How do you reconcile these verses with your theory and opinion, that some defy God and do exactly what He said nobody does.
You can appreciate the dilemma your theory creates for me, I'm forced to choose between embracing your theory or what God said, as your theory contradicts Gods Word.

As you would appreciate, the choice is a no brainer for me.

Don't you feel that we should include all the scriptures we can find that are relevant, to determine our understanding?

The first five scriptures explain one thing, and the rest of the scriptures explain another. Wouldn't all the scriptures be considered the truth?

Could it be that the first five scriptures are explaining the difficulty of understanding things, and the remaining scriptures are explaining that if we knock the door will be opened, if we are diligent, and exert ourselves, we will find the truth?

 

[GodsGrace]

You've been telling lots of lies and making false promises for a long time now. And I see you're still trying to scheme and deceive people with your demonic doctrines.

You don't get my house by making false promises to show me non existent verses of scripture, to support your false gospel.

I will gladly give my house and the rest of my possessions, to the first person who produces a single shred of evidence to support your (saved by works) perverted version of the gospel

You should hang your head in shame, as I have exposed your scam. Who would be so foolish as to decline the offer of a free house and other assets, and I'm not joking either.

Where's my house?
Where are my cars?

Looks like YOU are the liar.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I don't remember did you say 2 Timothy 3:16 does not apply to all the scriptures in the New Testament, because it was written before the New Testament was completed?

Please watch this short video let me know what you think, is the information useful or not?

yes it is useful, today for us, scripture is all of the bible but then, it most likely if not almost certainly meant the old testament.

very interesting! thank you Walter.

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Cor 9:27 is a lose salvation verse, really ??
Paul was worried about being DISQUALIFIED from teaching
Let me know GG if you want to dispute that first :)

I gave you 7 verses.
So you agree with the other 6?
(that they refer to loss of salvation).

But you think 1 Cor 9:27 is about Paul being disqualified from TEACHING?

Yes sir.
I'm willing to discuss.

So where in 1 Cor 9 - you start at which verse -
makes you believe Paul is speaking about being disqualified from teaching?

 

[GodsGrace]

Is it possible to crush an aluminum can and then restore it back to its original shape?

Analogies never work well with scripture.

Use scripture instead.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Christ made it clear that Paul as Apostle & Minister has the authority to teach Salvation to believers today.
Want the verses, again ?

this message is for you so you may understand the path you have chosen;

This text lays out a clear and truthful point: it distinguishes between knowing about salvation and knowing how to walk in it. It shows why Jesus’ teaching is essential and why Paul’s letters, though important, are not a complete guide on their own. Hoping it can help people understand the path to life more clearly. It offers clarity that can really make a difference for someone searching for truth.

Jesus did not only announce salvation. He taught the way to salvation. He spoke clearly about repentance, obedience, keeping God’s commandments, loving God and loving others, forgiving, praying, resisting sin, and doing the will of the Father. He explained what real faith looks like in daily life and took time to teach people step by step. Anyone who listened to Jesus could understand how to walk the path that leads to life.

Paul’s writings are different in purpose and content. Paul explained the meaning of Jesus’ sacrifice, the grace of God, faith, and the power of the cross. He showed that salvation is God’s gift and that no one can earn it by effort alone. This explanation is important, but it is not the same as teaching the way of life Jesus taught.

Paul did not, in his letters, clearly explain the way to salvation in detail. He did not walk Gentiles through God’s commandments. He did not explain obedience the way Jesus did. He did not teach the Sermon on the Mount, the commandments one by one, or how to live them from the heart. His letters were written to address problems, correct behavior, and encourage faith, not to fully teach people how to enter and walk the path of life.

For Gentiles especially, this matters. Many Gentiles had no background in the commandments, the covenant, or Jesus’ earthly teaching. Simply hearing that Jesus died and that grace saves is not enough by itself to show them how to live in obedience to God. Without knowing what sin is, without knowing God’s commandments, and without hearing Jesus’ own instructions, a Gentile can easily believe in words while missing the way to eternal life.

This is why Paul’s writings cannot stand alone. Paul explained Jesus’ sacrifice, but he did not fully explain how to walk in salvation. That teaching comes from Jesus Himself. Paul makes sense only when his letters are read under Jesus’ words and God’s commandments. Without that foundation, the message becomes incomplete, and salvation is reduced to a statement instead of a lived obedience that leads to life.

 

[GodsGrace]

this message is for you so you may understand the path you have chosen;

This text lays out a clear and truthful point: it distinguishes between knowing about salvation and knowing how to walk in it. It shows why Jesus’ teaching is essential and why Paul’s letters, though important, are not a complete guide on their own. Hoping it can help people understand the path to life more clearly. It offers clarity that can really make a difference for someone searching for truth.

Jesus did not only announce salvation. He taught the way to salvation. He spoke clearly about repentance, obedience, keeping God’s commandments, loving God and loving others, forgiving, praying, resisting sin, and doing the will of the Father. He explained what real faith looks like in daily life and took time to teach people step by step. Anyone who listened to Jesus could understand how to walk the path that leads to life.

Paul’s writings are different in purpose and content. Paul explained the meaning of Jesus’ sacrifice, the grace of God, faith, and the power of the cross. He showed that salvation is God’s gift and that no one can earn it by effort alone. This explanation is important, but it is not the same as teaching the way of life Jesus taught.

Paul did not, in his letters, clearly explain the way to salvation in detail. He did not walk Gentiles through God’s commandments. He did not explain obedience the way Jesus did. He did not teach the Sermon on the Mount, the commandments one by one, or how to live them from the heart. His letters were written to address problems, correct behavior, and encourage faith, not to fully teach people how to enter and walk the path of life.

For Gentiles especially, this matters. Many Gentiles had no background in the commandments, the covenant, or Jesus’ earthly teaching. Simply hearing that Jesus died and that grace saves is not enough by itself to show them how to live in obedience to God. Without knowing what sin is, without knowing God’s commandments, and without hearing Jesus’ own instructions, a Gentile can easily believe in words while missing the way to eternal life.

This is why Paul’s writings cannot stand alone. Paul explained Jesus’ sacrifice, but he did not fully explain how to walk in salvation. That teaching comes from Jesus Himself. Paul makes sense only when his letters are read under Jesus’ words and God’s commandments. Without that foundation, the message becomes incomplete, and salvation is reduced to a statement instead of a lived obedience that leads to life.

Great post!
You have such great patience.

Very well explained.

Paul worked more on the theology of Christianity - this cannot be denied.
Jesus was teaching everyone HOW to become saved and in very simple and direct ways that EVERYONE could understand.

This is why Jesus taught for everyone
and Paul taught for everyone.

Great point LY....we need BOTH in order to get a complete picture.

After Jesus died....some understanding of what happend had to be investigated...
this is what Paul did. I believe NT Wright wrote a book about this.

However, their teachings do NOT conflict
and IF they did...
we'd have to dismiss Paul from the classroom and HEAR AND OBEY JESUS.

 

[Rightglory]

But you have been blinded by the perverted "Arminian" version of the gospel, to the point where you are hallucinating about some non existent verses and I offered you my house to show me one but all you did was show me your perverted interpretation of unrelated verses and you have been pushing demonic doctrine.

Still on the obfuscation road. None of the above even applies to me. They are simply your means to omit any rational reply.

I have given you a truck load of verses that prove my theology to be Biblically correct, but all you have offered in your defence of the perverted gospel is lies and perverted interpretations that don't line up with any scripture at all.

You have given none. Your verses don't show that salvation cannot be lost. You have not even shown that a person even has salvation in this life, I'm referencing the subjective aspect of one's salvation. Furthermore, they are simply your personal interpretation of scripture. Everyone of those 49,00 figure you used earlier make the same claim. All you have is one person's opinion against another. If there are a thousand denominations there are a thousand truths being established no different than yours.
This is why you can so glibly state that any other opinion is false, which it is, based on the theory that everyone's version is the truth, for himself.
Are you even able to discuss rationally about your views? Or just post your opinion and deny all other comments, carte blanche

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

did you say 2 Timothy 3:16 does not apply to all the scriptures in the New Testament, because it was written before the New Testament was completed?

The devil tries to claim parts of God's Word are not inspired.

Is it possible to crush an aluminum can and then restore it back to its original shape?

All things are possible with God.

Was Job saved by the teachings of the 12 ?
Why not

Job was in Abraham's bosom and Jesus taught the Gospel to the OT saints when He went in to hell and they all got born again.

Christ made it clear that Paul as Apostle & Minister has the authority to teach Salvation to believers today

Actually it's the teachings of Jesus Christ that saves and Paul even spoke about that...

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

We are to withdraw ourselves from those that do not accept the teachings of Jesus Christ who don't know it was Jesus Who led the NT writes on what to write thru the leading and revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Glad we got this all cleared up!

 

[walter]

yes it is useful, today for us, scripture is all of the bible but then, it most likely if not almost certainly meant the old testament.

very interesting! thank you Walter.

2 Timothy 3:15 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. Would this include the New Testament scriptures that were available to Timothy, to make Timothy wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus?

AI Overview

Yes, while 2 Timothy 3:15 primarily refers to the Old Testament scriptures Timothy knew from infancy, these foundational writings, along with the emerging New Testament (apostolic teachings), collectively make believers wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus, as the OT points to Him and the NT reveals Him fully. The "holy writings" established his faith, but the complete understanding of salvation fully unfolds with Jesus, the fulfillment of those scriptures, making all Scripture essential.
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2 Peter 3:15-16
Berean Standard Bible
Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him.
16 He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

1 Thessalonians 2:13
New King James Version
For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.

If we consider 2 Peter 3:15-16 and 1 Thessalonians 2:13 The Thessalonians considered the Old Testament as the word of God, without the Old Testament explaining this. Shouldn't we do the same and consider the words in the New Testament as inspired knowledge that leads to everlasting life, through faith in Christ Jesus,?

 

[walter]

The devil tries to claim parts of God's Word are not inspired.

Either way, I agree with you, the Thessalonians believed the Old Testament was inspired, even though, I don't think the Old Testament explains that specifically?

I believe the New Testament is inspired even though the Apostle Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3:16 before the last books in the Bible were completed.

 

[Berean]

I don't remember, did we talk about 2 Timothy 3:16 ?

What about it?