Overview time line chart of the 7 years

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Ronald D Milam

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In that case you qualifications/experience exceeds that of this Author giving you the credibility required to dismiss what he teaches.:)
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View attachment 76176
And...............the Pharisees & Scribes were learned men, whilst the Disciples were babes plucked from amongst normal men, or Unlearned Men as was the traditional jargon of the time. We both know many, many men with great degrees wo are ignorant right? Some call boys girls and girls boys, many think there is no God, many of these learned men with degrees in the Theological world say its ok to be gay or have abortions etc. etc. so you can never win any argument my friend by putting forth degrees, they mean noting in reality, its God who gives wisdom.
 

Ronald D Milam

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Ronald, you did not say in your post what day (of the 2520 day 7 years) the abomination of desolation statue image will be set up.
You do the math, if the 70th week is 2520 days, and the 1290 happens 1290 days before Jesus' 2nd coming that means all we have to do is subtract 1290 from 2520 and the answer will be on day 1230 out of the 2520 days of the 70th week. Or 30 days before the middle of the week 1260 and 45 days after the 1335 event where the Two-witnesses show up.
 

Ronald D Milam

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Ronald, the 1290 days and 1335 days both begin when the abomination of desolation is setup.

The 1335 days end the day of Jesus's return. The 1290 days end 45 days before Jesus's return. The 45 days difference is when the kings of the earth will gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His army of heaven.
All three end when Jesus shows up on day 2520. God just reversed the way we look at them, He remember, wanted this locked up until the end of time. So He cloaked it by giving one number in the middle of the week first, and people thus was like, ohhhh 1260 days in this happens, YESSSSSSSSSS but the Holy Word is clearly referring to WHAT ENDS THESE WONDERS, and since they had no clue about Jesus yet per se, the could not grasp it. The 2nd Coming ends all of these wonders, means the 1260 countdown starts when the Beast conquers Israel and ends with the 2nd coming of Jesus. Likewise, the other two numbers also end when Jesus returns. The 2nd Coming is the FULCRUM POINT.
 

Douggg

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You do the math, if the 70th week is 2520 days, and the 1290 happens 1290 days before Jesus' 2nd coming that means all we have to do is subtract 1290 from 2520 and the answer will be on day 1230 out of the 2520 days of the 70th week. Or 30 days before the middle of the week 1260 and 45 days after the 1335 event where the Two-witnesses show up.

This seems to be your interpretation...

day 1..................................................................day 1230 AoD set up.................................................1290 days...................................................................day 2520

day 1..................................................day1185 TW's begin their 1260 days of testimony...............................................day 2475 TW's killed......day 2520

One of the problems with your interpretation is that the 1335 days in Daniel 12:12 does not infer anything about the TW's.

Also, the 1260 days of the TW's testimony time corresponds to the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 of Israel being fed the word of God.


table of time frames.jpg
 

Douggg

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All three end when Jesus shows up on day 2520. God just reversed the way we look at them, He remember, wanted this locked up until the end of time. So He cloaked it by giving one number in the middle of the week first, and people thus was like, ohhhh 1260 days in this happens, YESSSSSSSSSS but the Holy Word is clearly referring to WHAT ENDS THESE WONDERS, and since they had no clue about Jesus yet per se, the could not grasp it. The 2nd Coming ends all of these wonders, means the 1260 countdown starts when the Beast conquers Israel and ends with the 2nd coming of Jesus. Likewise, the other two numbers also end when Jesus returns. The 2nd Coming is the FULCRUM POINT.
All of the 15 end times time frames of events end - by the day that Jesus returns. But not all end on the same day of Jesus's return.

table of time frames.jpg
 

Douggg

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@Ronald D Milam

Here is a table of all the like time frames. I made with just typing in my post. So you can do the same. The vertical midpoint, I made by typing a capital "i".


FIRST HALF.........................................................I..............................................................SECOND HALF
................................................................................I..............42 months, Revelation 11:2..............................
................................................................................I...............42 months, Revelation 13:5.............................
................................................................................I................time/times/half time, Revelation 12:14.....
................................................................................I................time/times/half time, Daniel 7:25................
................................................................................I................time/times/half time, Daniel 12:7................
........1260 days, Revelation 12:6..................I...................................................................................................
........1260 days, Revelation 11:3..................I...................................................................................................
...............................................................7 years, Daniel 9:27.............................................................................
...............................................................7 years, Ezekiel 39:9............................................................................
 
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Douggg

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Let's add the 1335 days and 1290 days..


FIRST HALF.........................................................I..............................................................SECOND HALF
................................................................................I...........42 months, Revelation 11:2.................................
................................................................................I............42 months, Revelation 13:5................................
................................................................................I.............time/times/half time, Revelation 12:14........
................................................................................I.............time/times/half time, Daniel 7:25...................
................................................................................I.............time/times/half time, Daniel 12:7...................
........1260 days, Revelation 12:6..................I...................................................................................................
........1260 days, Revelation 11:3..................I...................................................................................................
...............................................................7 years, Daniel 9:27.............................................................................
...............................................................7 years, Ezekiel 39:9............................................................................
.............................................................I................................1335 days, Daniel 12:12.....................................
.............................................................I................................1290 days, Daniel 12:11.........I....45 days.......
 
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Douggg

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Since the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 and the time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14 are in the same chapter, let's put those on the same line. What do you think about the table ? Easy to understand ?


FIRST HALF.................................................mid-point....................................................SECOND HALF
................................................................................I...........42 months, Revelation 11:2.................................
................................................................................I............42 months, Revelation 13:5................................
................................................................................I.............time/times/half time, Daniel 7:25...................
................................................................................I.............time/times/half time, Daniel 12:7...................
........1260 days, Revelation 12:6..................I..............time/times/half time, Revelation 12:14........
........1260 days, Revelation 11:3..................I...................................................................................................
...............................................................7 years, Daniel 9:27..............................................................................
...............................................................7 years, Ezekiel 39:9.............................................................................
.............................................................I................................1335 days, Daniel 12:12......................................
.............................................................I................................1290 days, Daniel 12:11.........I.....45 days.......
 
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rvmb

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And...............the Pharisees & Scribes were learned men, whilst the Disciples were babes plucked from amongst normal men, or Unlearned Men as was the traditional jargon of the time. We both know many, many men with great degrees wo are ignorant right? Some call boys girls and girls boys, many think there is no God, many of these learned men with degrees in the Theological world say its ok to be gay or have abortions etc. etc. so you can never win any argument my friend by putting forth degrees, they mean noting in reality, its God who gives wisdom.
""so you can never win any argument my friend by putting forth degrees""
Degrees aside friend, using verses what is it about the following that you don't agree with ?
***
1766546896905.png
 
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Ronald D Milam

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The rapture before the 1st of the 7 seals were opened. (circled)
This contradicts:

2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Never heard of Larkin but he was 100% correct in the timing of the rapture. 2 Thess. 2:1-6 is about the DEPARTURE of the Church, not the departure of the faith. Paul heard they thought they were in God's wrath so he says I beseech (ask urgently) via the Gathering unto Christ. (Modern lingo, I am asking your very urgently, by way of the Rapture unto Jesus Christ, that you guys STOP FEARING that you ae in the DOTL, far that fay of wrath cannot happen until the DEPARTURE [of the Church].......later he says remember I told you this when I was with you......this is why he doesn't go back into great detail in the letter, he has already explained these things unto them when he was with them.

What most who see this way miss is Paul is not saying the Anti-Christ must come before the Rapture, he is saying that BOTH the AC and the DEPARTURE [of the Church] must happen before the Wrath of God can fall. That is why he begs them to stop living in fear. They can not ever be in the DOTL, because the future Anti-Christ (E.U. President IMHO) will enter into the Agreement with Israel (Israel simply joins the E.U.) via the E.U. That ONE ACTION sets everything off, God's anger at Israel is rekindled because they had no right to "give away His land" and at the exact same moment the Pre Trib. Rapture happens. So, they could never be in the DOTL.


The Judgement seat of Christ happens at the 7th trumpet:

Rv 11:15-18
5 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
 

Ronald D Milam

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""so you can never win any argument my friend by putting forth degrees""
Degrees aside friend, using verses what is it about the following that you don't agree with ?
Any argument can be right or wrong, but not because its of mankind/men, only because it is of God. We have a holy spirit truth detector. I hear a preacher for 5-10 minutes and tell you if he is of God or not. The point is that is a bad argument, a better one would be to show the scriptures and to show how a multitude of people believe something to be true. Anytime we revert to one or 2 men we can get off-tracked. Beware of Men's Traditions.
 

shepherdsword

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Never heard of Larkin but he was 100% correct in the timing of the rapture. 2 Thess. 2:1-6 is about the DEPARTURE of the Church, not the departure of the faith. Paul heard they thought they were in God's wrath so he says I beseech (ask urgently) via the Gathering unto Christ. (Modern lingo, I am asking your very urgently, by way of the Rapture unto Jesus Christ, that you guys STOP FEARING that you ae in the DOTL, far that fay of wrath cannot happen until the DEPARTURE [of the Church].......later he says remember I told you this when I was with you......this is why he doesn't go back into great detail in the letter, he has already explained these things unto them when he was with them.

What most who see this way miss is Paul is not saying the Anti-Christ must come before the Rapture, he is saying that BOTH the AC and the DEPARTURE [of the Church] must happen before the Wrath of God can fall. That is why he begs them to stop living in fear. They can not ever be in the DOTL, because the future Anti-Christ (E.U. President IMHO) will enter into the Agreement with Israel (Israel simply joins the E.U.) via the E.U. That ONE ACTION sets everything off, God's anger at Israel is rekindled because they had no right to "give away His land" and at the exact same moment the Pre Trib. Rapture happens. So, they could never be in the DOTL.
It is the falling away or apostasy of the church that happens before the man of sin is revealed."Not the "departure" of the church. Let's examine the text:

2 Th 2:1 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

1766561202626.png

Trying to redefine the word apostasy as "departure" is a desperate reach. It is used in only two places. Acts 21:21 where it means teaching gentiles apostacy from Moses and 2Th 2:3

AT Robertson:
1766561338977.png

It is a serious breach of definition to try and spin the word into "departure" It means to apostatize and is in line with what Paul teaches about the coming apostacy here:

2 Ti 3:1-5 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

1Th 2:3 has nothing to do with the "departure" of the church.
 

Douggg

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t is the falling away or apostasy of the church that happens before the man of sin is revealed."Not the "departure" of the church. Let's examine the text:

2 Th 2:1 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
You made a typo. You quoted 2Thessalonians2:3, but typed it as 2 TH 2:1.

2Thessalonians2:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, [the resurrection/rapture]

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ [the day of the Lord]is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [the transgression of desolation act, ToD, originally spoken of in Daniel 8:13]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The rapture/resurrection will take place at anytime between right this very second and when the Antichrist commits the ToD sit in the temple act claiming to be God. The ToD act will trigger the beginning of the day of the Lord.


ratpure window 8.jpg
 
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shepherdsword

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You made a typo. You quoted 2Thessalonians2:3, but typed it as 2 TH 2:1.

2Thessalonians2:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, [the resurrection/rapture]

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ [the day of the Lord]is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [the transgression of desolation act, ToD, originally spoken of in Daniel 8:13]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The rapture/resurrection will take place at anytime between right this very second and when the Antichrist commits the ToD sit in the temple act claiming to be God. The ToD act will trigger the beginning of the day of the Lord.


View attachment 76271
The text you quoted contradicts what you claim. It says there will be a great falling away from the faith and the antichrist will be revealed. There can be no rapture until that happens. The rapture happens at the second coming. As does the resurrection.

2 Th 2:2-4

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
(In other words, don't let anyone tell you the second coming/rapture can happen at anytime. Just the opposite of what you claim

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away(apostacy from the faith) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.(the one who causes the apostacy) (in other words, don't let anyone deceive you into thinking there is some supersecret rapture coming before the man of sin is revealed.

You have totally turned the text upside down with some Orwellian rewrite that actually does what Paul was warning against. It clearly states that the day will not come until there is a falling away and the man of sin revealed. We are to let no man deceive us otherwise.
 

Ronald D Milam

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It is the falling away or apostasy of the church that happens before the man of sin is revealed."Not the "departure" of the church. Let's examine the text:
I have been doing this 40 years my friend, it takes grunt work and an ability to hear the holy spirits silent correction. When I hear it I know it, the holy spirit bears witness. I wrote a blog on this nigh 10 years ago. It was never apostacy, just like gay in the 1930s meant happy. The first 10 English translations had DEPARTURE not a Falling Away. The KJV translators did this to take a swipe and their contemporary "foe" the RCC,

Is the Falling Away an erroneous teaching?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the end (now), as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the "true church can Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth as The Beast. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that had been around for 1100 some odd years at the time the KJV was written.
 

shepherdsword

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I have been doing this 40 years my friend, it takes grunt work and an ability to hear the holy spirits silent correction. When I hear it I know it, the holy spirit bears witness. I wrote a blog on this nigh 10 years ago. It was never apostacy, just like gay in the 1930s meant happy. The first 10 English translations had DEPARTURE not a Falling Away. The KJV translators did this to take a swipe and their contemporary "foe" the RCC,

Is the Falling Away an erroneous teaching?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the end (now), as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the "true church can Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth as The Beast. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that had been around for 1100 some odd years at the time the KJV was written.
There is no way the word can be used to convey a church departure (from the earth). The historic usage as well as biblical usage is overwhelming evidence against it. This cannot be ignored:

The word "ἀποστασία" (apostasia) is only used in one other place. It is translated as the forsaking of Moses.

Ac 21:21
1 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake(apostasia) Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Let's look at NT usage:

ἀποστασία (apostasia)
Meaning: ἀποστασία literally means: a falling away, a defection, a rebellion, a deliberate abandonment of a former position

It comes from the verb: ἀφίστημι (aphistēmi)
Meaning: to stand away from, to withdraw, to depart, to rebel
So apostasia is not merely doubt or weakness; it is a willful departure from a previously held allegiance.

Key New Testament Usage
2 Thessalonians 2:3
μή τις ὑμᾶς ἐξαπατήσῃ … ὅτι ἐὰν μὴ ἔλθῃ ἡ ἀποστασία πρῶτον…
“Let no one deceive you… for that Day will not come unless the apostasy comes first…”
Here ἀποστασία refers to a large-scale rebellion against God and truth, not simply moral decline.
Greek Lexicon Definitions
BDAG
(standard Greek lexicon):
ἀποστασία — “defiance of established system or authority; rebellion, abandonment, apostasy
Important Theological Point
In biblical Greek, ἀποστασία always implies a prior attachment, then conscious withdrawal
You cannot commit apostasia unless you were once connected.

This is why in Scripture apostasy is far more serious than ignorance or unbelief—it is treachery, not merely error.

Let's look at classical Greek usage
Liddell-Scott-Jones (classical Greek):
ἀποστασία — “a standing off, revolt, defection”

In classical Greek there are no examples of religious usage but the term is ALWAYS used politically for revolt or rebellion.
 
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Douggg

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The text you quoted contradicts what you claim. It says there will be a great falling away from the faith and the antichrist will be revealed. There can be no rapture until that happens. The rapture happens at the second coming. As does the resurrection.
No. the rapture must take place before the Antichrist reveals himself to be the man of sin by committing the transgression of desolation act described in 2Thessalonians2:4

There will be a great falling away from the faith and the antichrist will be revealed as the man of sin - before the day of the Lord begins. Instead, you are saying before the rapture can happen. But that is incorrect. It is before the day of the Lord begins.

When the day of the Lord begins - it is also the beginning of God's wrath. 1Thessalonians5:9-11 says that Christians are not appointed to wrath, but to salvation.

1Thessalonains5:

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [the resurrection/rapture]

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

So the resurrection/rapture can take place anytime between right this very second and when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act.
 

shepherdsword

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No. the rapture must take place before the Antichrist reveals himself to be the man of sin by committing the transgression of desolation act described in 2Thessalonians2:4
That's not what the text says. "That day shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin revealed"
It's as clear as day.
 

Douggg

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That's not what the text says. "That day shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin revealed"
It's as clear as day.
The day of the Lord shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin revealed.

It is not saying - The day of the rapture shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin revealed.
 

shepherdsword

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The day of the Lord shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin revealed.

It is not saying - The day of the rapture shall not come except there come a falling away first and the man of sin revealed.
He doesn't say "day of the Lord" He is referencing the context of his previous letter. They were troubled because someone told them the day is at hand and could happen anytime.


This is what he is referring to
1 Th 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

He said this in reference to it.

2 Th 2:1-3

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(here he is referencing the coming of the Lord

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.(don't be troubled because that day cannot happen at any time, there are things that must happen first)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;(Here he tells them what must happen first)



You will never persuade me to go back and believe the pre-trib myth I held for so many years. I hoped to persuade you by showing what the scriptures mean but you keep spinning them to your paradigm. I think it's best to agree to disagree. Once evidence like this is so clearly rejected things tend to get ugly.