"what shall be the sign of thy coming"

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have gone over this matter before with you.

Yes, and I see that you still can't count. Based on your ridiculous understanding of the chronology of the 7 trumpets, you think you count to 6 like this: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 5, 6.

You just can't be taken seriously because you have so many nonsensical beliefs like that.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty, are you asking if the great tribulation is from God or Satan ?

The great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation statue image is set-up on the temple mount. That is not something that God does, nor inspires. Satan is behind the actions by the false prophet to have the statue image made of the beast-king and placed on the temple mount.

So if the great tribulation is from satan then the wrath of God (as in the sets of 7 punishments) are dif from the great tribulation right?

 

[Douggg]

So if the great tribulation is from satan then the wrath of God (as in the sets of 7 punishments) are dif from the great tribulation right?

No, during the great tribulation. The great tribulation can be looked at as the conflict between Satan and God coming to a head.

Which the Lord Jesus Christ will stand on Satan the serpent's head and crush him.

Satan's influence begins the great tribulation - as intensified extension of Satan's rebellion against God.

During the great tribulation, the plagues of the seven trumpets and seven vials will smite the world which will be in a state of rebellion against God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

In Matthew 24:3, the disciples asked about what will be the sign of his coming.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

In Matthew 24:29-30a, Jesus explained what would be the sign of his coming and when. The sign of his coming will be the sign of the Son of man in heaven, Matthew 24:30a.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:29 is the powers of the heavens shaken, which is what will take place in the sixth seal event.

That is when the sign of the Son of man appears in heaven, that will send terror into the hearts and minds of the wicked. The sign will be Jesus, sickle in hand (from Revelation 14:14).

I agree. The sign of the fulfillment of Jesus' Coming is his coming from heaven to bring final judgment to the world, in preparation for a new heavenly age. The thing to keep in mind is that the Olivet Discourse began with Jesus teaching out of a comparison, or out of a contrast.

Jesus was showing that it was not a focus on Moses, on the Law, on the Temple, or on earthly things that were to be the expectation of his Disciples. Instead, they were to look to heaven, to see God bring something better through His Son--something that would fulfill Moses and surpass anything on earth that claimed to be messianic.

So it wasn't false Messiahs on the earth who promised an imminent Kingdom on earth. It wasn't a restoration of the Temple prescribed by Moses. It wasn't a fulfillment of the Prophets exclusively to Israel, as determined under the Law. That Covenant would be broken, and would only be a temporary fill-in until Christ came and became the final source of Redemption--something the Law could only prefigure and provide for temporarily.

So, this was the contrast Jesus was painting. Forget the beautiful Temple. Forget Moses and Elijah. Just listen to the Son, who in himself provides eternal Redemption. He will not provide redemption from within fallen humanity, but will come down from heaven from the eternal, immortal, perfect God. Anything we do in this age is just preparatory for that.

Matt 17.4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

Matt 24.Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
...4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. ..
6 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

[Truth7t7]

The book of Revelation is not a futurist book, as you imagine. Nor is it a preterist book as preterists imagine. It covers the entire time period from the first to the second coming of Christ. And it's not about Israel and Jerusalem, it's about Jesus Christ, His church and the enemies of Christ and His church.

Your claim is "False"

The book of Revelation is prophetic showing events that will take place in the "Future"

A Few Mentions

1. (The Beast) a evil human man Rev 13

2. Mystery Babylon the whole a future (Jerusalem) Rev 17-18

3. The two witnesses prophets returned, bringing plagues upon this earth, a remake of Moses-Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt Rev 11

4. Rev 6 & 16 "Future" events that will take place on this earth

 

[Douggg]

Yes, and I see that you still can't count. Based on your ridiculous understanding of the chronology of the 7 trumpets, you think you count to 6 like this: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 5, 6.

You just can't be taken seriously because you have so many nonsensical beliefs like that.

If anyone were to take you seriously - then you would make time line charts and post them.

Revelation 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. Can you count like that ? Using your numerical sequence must define the chronological order of events rationale - Revelation 8 and 9 must take place before the 42 months of Revelation 13. Which anyone reading those chapters knows is incorrect.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your claim is "False"

No, your claim is false. Both futurism and preterism are false end times belief systems. Both are extreme and unbalanced.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If anyone were to take you seriously - then you would make time line charts and post them.

LOL. Your childish response means nothing. Everyone else here but you sees no need for timeline charts.

Revelation 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. Can you count like that ?

Yes, that's how most people count. But, when it comes to the order of the trumpets you count like this: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 5, 6. It's just ridiculous.

Using your numerical sequence must define the chronological order of events rationale - Revelation 8 and 9 must take place before the 42 months of Revelation 13. Which anyone reading those chapters knows is incorrect.

LOL. The Bible wasn't written with chapter numbers. The book itself is clearly not all chronological, but the seals are chronological, the trumpets are chronological and the vials are chronological. There's no basis whatsoever for thinking otherwise. You make the numbering of the seals, trumpets and vials pointless. They are numbered to show the chronological order of them.

 

[Marty fox]

No, during the great tribulation. The great tribulation can be looked at as the conflict between Satan and God coming to a head.

Which the Lord Jesus Christ will stand on Satan the serpent's head and crush him.

Satan's influence begins the great tribulation - as intensified extension of Satan's rebellion against God.

During the great tribulation, the plagues of the seven trumpets and seven vials will smite the world which will be in a state of rebellion against God.

Jesus crushed satans head at the cross and resurrection

 

[Douggg]

Jesus crushed satans head at the cross and resurrection

Marty, Satan was influential in having Jesus crucified. i.e. Satan the serpent bruised his heal, as expressed in Genesis 3:15.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL. Jesus said let those in Judea flee to the mountains, not those in the entire world. You are not looking at the context. Also, it doesn't say it would be the greatest tribulation in history in scope. If that's what it meant, then the flood in Noah's day would be the greatest tribulation ever. But, no tribulation can top that in scope.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This does NOT say it would be the greatest tribulation ever in scope. You are twisting the text to say that. If that was the case, it would have to be something greater than the flood in Noah's day, which is not even possible. Only 8 people survived that. Jesus was saying that it would be great tribulation unlike any since the beginning of the world to that time. The great tribulation that Jesus referred to there doesn't have to be global in order to be unlike any other great tribulation that has occurred.

What happened in 70 AD was indeed unlike any other great tribulation that has ever occurred in the world. There was cannibalism and many other kinds of horrific deaths that occurred in Jerusalem at that time. Never has a religion (Judaism) and a people group experienced great tribulation on the scale that the Jews did in Jerusalem in 70 AD. No other religion and people group has ever had all of its sacred temples and buildings destroyed like that. No other city has been completely destroyed in the manner that Jerusalem was in 70 AD. No other people group had its religion and way of life completely taken away from them like it was from the Jews in 70 AD.


No flesh in Judea! You are ignoring the context. Jesus said those in Judea would need to flee, not those throughout the world. I am going by what Jesus said the scope of great tribulation would be and you are not.

You conveniently dodged "Nation Shall Rise Against Nation" showing (Global) Why?

"Nation Against Nation" (Global)

"No, Nor Ever Shall Be"

(World Wide) "There Should No Flesh Be Saved" (Global)

"NO" = "All" Flesh

Matthew 24:7 & 21KJV
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[Jay Ross]

Many people will miss the sign of Christs second coming because of the great falling away.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty, Satan was influential in having Jesus crucified. i.e. Satan the serpent bruised his heal, as expressed in Genesis 3:15.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Of course but what has that got to do with satan being defeated at the cross?

 

[Douggg]

Of course but what has that got to do with satan being defeated at the cross?

Do you have some verses ?

 

[Douggg]

Many people will miss the sign of Christs second coming because of the great falling away.

What do you mean will "miss" ?

The entire world will see the sign of the Son of man in heaven.

Revelation 6:

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Marty fox]

Do you have some verses ?

?

 

[Douggg]

?

Marty, you wrote "Jesus crushed satans head at the cross and resurrection"

I am asking you if you can reference any bible verses, regarding Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection, that say Satan's head was crushed (figuratively speaking) into doing so ?

 

[Truth7t7]

If anyone were to take you seriously - then you would make time line charts and post them.

Revelation 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. Can you count like that ? Using your numerical sequence must define the chronological order of events rationale - Revelation 8 and 9 must take place before the 42 months of Revelation 13. Which anyone reading those chapters knows is incorrect.

The book of Revelation is writen of parallel events in the same teaching, not chronological as dispensationalism falsely teaches

 

[Truth7t7]

Many people will miss the sign of Christs second coming because of the great falling away.

Nobody is going to miss the second coming, it will be global fire time

 

[Marty fox]

Marty, you wrote "Jesus crushed satans head at the cross and resurrection"

I am asking you if you can reference any bible verses, regarding Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection, that say Satan's head was crushed (figuratively speaking) into doing so ?

Colossians 2:15
15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross

Hebrews 2
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

John 12
31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

1 John 3
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work