WATER BAPTISM CAUSES DIVISIONS

[GodsGrace]

You do acknowledge that you arent to apply the commands given to the twelve. In the same way you shouldnt apply what Jesus commanded Israel to obey to yourself

Slight difference Doug!
Can YOU forgive sins?
Can YOU remove demons?

Jesus gave these commands TO THE APOSTLES.....

But all of Jesus words are for ALL who will believe in Him.
Ditto for Paul's words.

Jesus said the Kingdom is WITHIN us and AMONG us...
it is not in some distant future.

Could you just state two commands that Jesus gave to Israel (the jews) that He did not mean for us?

Midnight here.
Tomorrow for the rest.

 

[Doug]

Didn't mean to offend.
Just concerned with the time it'll take.
Will begin tomorrow morning.

Ok no problem
I was only responding to statements you made,
just answer what you think is pertinent
You can be brief if you like

 

[Doug]

Could you just state two commands that Jesus gave to Israel (the jews) that He did not mean for us?

[Matthew 6:14 KJV] "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
[Matthew 6:15 KJV] "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."........to be forgiven they had to forgive

[Luke 18:22 KJV] "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me."...............Israel had to sell all to enter the kingdom

[Matthew 18:19 KJV] "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."
[Matthew 21:22 KJV] "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.".............only Israel was promised to receive what they asked for

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes it was for that time, Jesus said the kingdom was at hand, Israel had to receive Jesus as their Messiah and the Son of God. They didnt so the kingdom was postponed.

If Jesus said the kingdom was AT HAND...
it means just that.

Please find me a verse where Jesus, or one of the Apostles, states that the Kingdom is postponed.

There is the Kingdom of God --- which is within us and dwells among us.

There is the Kindom of heaven --- which is after we die and are fortunate enough to go with God.

(sometimes the can be interchanged but the context which determine which is being spoken of).

 

[GodsGrace]

In Romans 9 thru 11 he was dealing with Israel. Israel was to call on his name. Israel was to call on his name to be saved in the day of the Lord,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,[Acts 2:19 KJV] "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"

Agreed on Romans 9 to 11 although it does also mention Gentiles.

Romans 11:13 PAUL STATES HE IS SPEAKING TO THE GENTILES
Romans 11:17 THE GENTILES WERE GRAFTED IN
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,


The Gentiles were grafted in...
what could be more clear?

[Acts 2:20 KJV] "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:"
[Acts 2:21 KJV] "And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

THE LAST DAYS, referred to in Acts 2:20-21 (and before) is referring to RIGHT NOW.
THESE are the last days.
It is quoting the OT and the Apostles believed the were living in the last days.

Thus the letter to Thessalonians by Paul telling them to stop waiting for Jesus to return and get back to work.

 

[GodsGrace]

In John 3 it is those who believe on his name not his blood of the cross........[John 3:18 KJV] "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

It's the same Jesus...
whether or not He had died yet.

Don't you believe the OT believers were saved by the blood of Jesus?
Jesus died for everyone - past, present and future believers.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus gave Paul revelations that he didnt reveal in his earthly ministry

Paul knew nothing more that the Apostles.
But he developed Christian theology.
He gave a reason to the death of Jesus on the cross.
Jesus always knew He would die on the cross...
the Apostles could not believe it until they witnessed it.

Paul came after the cross and so had no problem believing it once it was revealed to him and he became a believer.

I cannot think of one thing Paul taught that Jesus and His Apostles did not.

 

[GodsGrace]

First of all whatever Paul says comes from Christ
Secondly it depends who is being told to do or not do something

Paul and the Apostles taught the same.
Whatever Jesus says to do...He means it for every one of His followers.

Except, as I've stated, what was specific to the Apostles.
FORGIVENESS OF SINS
EXCORSISM
BAPTIZING

 

[GodsGrace]

Lots of scholarly debate about the travels
Church traditional teachings arent history, they lack evidence

Not going to discuss the travels of the Apostles.
Peter was in Rome.
If you don't care to believe it - fine.

I'll tell you what there is NO scholarly debate about:
JESUS' TEACHINGS to all of His followers....
ALL.

 

[GodsGrace]

We can if he cant be found teaching it

I've offered scripture...
you don't accept it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Israel had to be saved first to be priests in the millennial kingdom to lead the Gentiles in the kingdom to the Lord

Apparently,l according to YOU, the plan you state above failed miserably since the Jews did not accept Jesus as their Messiah.

So...according to YOU...no one to lead the Gentiles in the "Kingdom" to the Lord.

Bad theology Doug.
Leave it behind.

 

[GodsGrace]

Scripture says otherwise............
[Matthew 13:10 KJV] "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?"
[Matthew 13:11 KJV] "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

Jesus spoke clearly.
He didn't go throughout all of Israel so that He would NOT be understood.

I'm not getting into discussing parables and why He used them and what He meant by the statement that some were not meant for them.

Perhaps Jesus wants those who hear Him to put their thinking caps on?
Just a clue.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you keep the sabbath................[Exodus 31:14 KJV] "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

ALL of what Jesus commanded are for everyone...
more than even the 10 commandments.

We should try to keep them all.

The Sabbath?
Jesus is our Sabbath.

Did JESUS keep the Sabbath???
Then neither are we required to.

 

[GodsGrace]

[Leviticus 20:10 KJV] "And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
Both should have been put to death, but they only brought the woman................

Ok
they only brought the woman.

Again....why didn't Jesus just have her stoned to death?

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul repeated all the ten but the sabbath and that we can fulfill the righteousness of the law by walking after the Spirit who transforms our minds

I agree.

 

[GodsGrace]

The ten commandments are the moral law applied to all (except the sabbath)
We cant keep them, they only revive sin in us
Paul as I said reflects them in his epistles, but we can now obey them because we have been buried and risen with Christ and can obey them by the Spirit

I agree.

 

[GodsGrace]

i have respect for you and am grateful for your concern.
I used to go to a Baptist church who had the gospel down pretty good but they applied what was for Israel to themselves. Their error is common, applying all Jesus taught Isreal is in the Bible but is not all to be applied to us. Jesus gives us our gospel and commandments thru Paul

This convo will have to end Doug.
You are not open to what the NT teaches and we are beginning to repeat.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus was commanding Israel to be righteous to enter the earthly kingdom

So you're saying that we do not have to obey jesus.
Basically, this is what you're stating.

 

[GodsGrace]

You do acknowledge that you arent to apply the commands given to the twelve. In the same way you shouldnt apply what Jesus commanded Israel to obey to yourself

I hear every word that comes out of the mouth of God.
It is for ME.
I apply it to my life to the best of my ability.

I don't believe God will say:

You did good not to obey Jesus --- that was only for Israel.

 

[GodsGrace]

[Matthew 6:14 KJV] "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"

So WE Gentiles are not to forgive?

[Matthew 6:15 KJV] "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."........to be forgiven they had to forgive

Ditto.

[Luke 18:22 KJV] "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me."...............Israel had to sell all to enter the kingdom

Oh for goodness sake Doug...
Do you not know the meaning of the parable of the Rich man?
Just learn it, it's easy.

Hint: We all have something we hate leaving behind.
Jesus DID say to count the cost if we want to follow Him.

This is a personal teaching meant for every believer
and NOT something to do with the Kingdom.

Come home brother!

[Matthew 18:19 KJV] "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."
[Matthew 21:22 KJV] "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.".............only Israel was promised to receive what they asked for

OK.
So now I need to stop praying too?

Come home brother!