IF YOU ONLY FOLLOW JESUS THEN YOU MUST KEEP THE LAW

[Doug]

[Matthew 5:17 KJV] "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
[Matthew 5:18 KJV] "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
[Matthew 5:19 KJV] "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
[Matthew 5:20 KJV] "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

There are those who say Jesus was talking only about the ten commandments, but in the above passage Jesus is talking about the commandments of the law, not just the ten.

There are those who say they follow Jesus. If that is the case then you must also keep the law.
There are those who say we aren't obligated to keep the ceremonial laws. I don't agree with this. I say if you contend we must keep the law then we would have to keep the entire law. Nevertheless, I will not consider the ceremonial sacrificial laws. What I will do, is cite the laws and commandments that you would have to keep to follow Jesus teaching you to keep the commandments.

[Leviticus 11:4 KJV] "Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: [as] the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:5 KJV] "And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:6 KJV] "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:7 KJV] "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you."

[Leviticus 12:3 KJV] "And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised."

[Leviticus 19:19 KJV] "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee."

[Leviticus 19:26 KJV] "Ye shall not eat [any thing] with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times."

[Leviticus 19:27 KJV] "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

[Leviticus 19:30 KJV] "Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD."

[Leviticus 23:4 KJV] "These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons."

If you want to keep the commandments for a blessing then you also have to accept that there were also cursing's for not keeping them.

[Leviticus 26:15 KJV] "And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, [but] that ye break my covenant:"
[Leviticus 26:16 KJV] "I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it."

You would have to justify saying Jesus only meant to keep the ten commandments and explain why the law Jesus said to keep could be set aside as not pertaining to you.

 

[saved by grace 101]

[Matthew 5:17 KJV] "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
[Matthew 5:18 KJV] "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
[Matthew 5:19 KJV] "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
[Matthew 5:20 KJV] "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

There are those who say Jesus was talking only about the ten commandments, but in the above passage Jesus is talking about the commandments of the law, not just the ten.

There are those who say they follow Jesus. If that is the case then you must also keep the law.
There are those who say we aren't obligated to keep the ceremonial laws. I don't agree with this. I say if you contend we must keep the law then we would have to keep the entire law. Nevertheless, I will not consider the ceremonial sacrificial laws. What I will do, is cite the laws and commandments that you would have to keep to follow Jesus teaching you to keep the commandments.

[Leviticus 11:4 KJV] "Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: [as] the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:5 KJV] "And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:6 KJV] "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:7 KJV] "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you."

[Leviticus 12:3 KJV] "And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised."

[Leviticus 19:19 KJV] "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee."

[Leviticus 19:26 KJV] "Ye shall not eat [any thing] with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times."

[Leviticus 19:27 KJV] "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

[Leviticus 19:30 KJV] "Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD."

[Leviticus 23:4 KJV] "These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons."

If you want to keep the commandments for a blessing then you also have to accept that there were also cursing's for not keeping them.

[Leviticus 26:15 KJV] "And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, [but] that ye break my covenant:"
[Leviticus 26:16 KJV] "I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it."

You would have to justify saying Jesus only meant to keep the ten commandments and explain why the law Jesus said to keep could be set aside as not pertaining to you.

According to dispensationalism, Paul who was in the BOC went to people outside of the BOC to have decided which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow. Only four were mentioned, three of which it is widely accepted were to keep the peace at the meeting. Paul subjected himself to their decision(a decision promoted by James) inasmuch as he took the letter from those dispensationalists consider outside of the BOC, to gentile converts, who accepted the Jerusalem churches decision. It would be rather strange, if dispensationalists are correct, for Paul to allow himself, and gentile believers, who were in the BOC to be dictated to by those outside of the BOC.

 

[Soyeong]

[Matthew 5:17 KJV] "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
[Matthew 5:18 KJV] "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
[Matthew 5:19 KJV] "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
[Matthew 5:20 KJV] "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

There are those who say Jesus was talking only about the ten commandments, but in the above passage Jesus is talking about the commandments of the law, not just the ten.

There are those who say they follow Jesus. If that is the case then you must also keep the law.
There are those who say we aren't obligated to keep the ceremonial laws. I don't agree with this. I say if you contend we must keep the law then we would have to keep the entire law. Nevertheless, I will not consider the ceremonial sacrificial laws. What I will do, is cite the laws and commandments that you would have to keep to follow Jesus teaching you to keep the commandments.

[Leviticus 11:4 KJV] "Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: [as] the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:5 KJV] "And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:6 KJV] "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he [is] unclean unto you."
[Leviticus 11:7 KJV] "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you."

[Leviticus 12:3 KJV] "And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised."

[Leviticus 19:19 KJV] "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee."

[Leviticus 19:26 KJV] "Ye shall not eat [any thing] with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times."

[Leviticus 19:27 KJV] "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

[Leviticus 19:30 KJV] "Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD."

[Leviticus 23:4 KJV] "These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons."

If you want to keep the commandments for a blessing then you also have to accept that there were also cursing's for not keeping them.

[Leviticus 26:15 KJV] "And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, [but] that ye break my covenant:"
[Leviticus 26:16 KJV] "I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it."

You would have to justify saying Jesus only meant to keep the ten commandments and explain why the law Jesus said to keep could be set aside as not pertaining to you.

Indeed, Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so it does not work for someone to take the position that we should only follow what they said but not what they considered to be an authoritative source. For example, Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Jesus notably did not specify that we should live by every word that comes from the mouth of God…unless He commands something that has an aspect that could be considered to be ceremonial, in which case that would be unreasonable for God to command and we should rebel against Him.

 

[Doug]

According to dispensationalism, Paul who was in the BOC went to people outside of the BOC to have decided which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow. Only four were mentioned, three of which it is widely accepted were to keep the peace at the meeting. Paul subjected himself to their decision(a decision promoted by James) inasmuch as he took the letter from those dispensationalists consider outside of the BOC, to gentile converts, who accepted the Jerusalem churches decision. It would be rather strange, if dispensationalists are correct, for Paul to allow himself, and gentile believers, who were in the BOC to be dictated to by those outside of the BOC.

I am not sure I get your point. but James was not saying that Paul's converts were in view. They were deciding if the Gentiles who were converted by Peter in Acts 10 were to follow the whole law. These Gentiles were members of the believing remnant of Israel who only believed on the name of Jesus............[Acts 10:43 KJV] "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

 

[saved by grace 101]

I am not sure I get your point. but James was not saying that Paul's converts were in view. They were deciding if the Gentiles who were converted by Peter in Acts 10 were to follow the whole law. These Gentiles were members of the believing remnant of Israel who only believed on the name of Jesus............[Acts 10:43 KJV] "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

I know people will reason anything on these websites to support their views-but even so:

Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. Acts15:1&2

 

[Doug]

Indeed, Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so it does not work for someone to take the position that we should only follow what they said but not what they considered to be an authoritative source. For example, Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Jesus notably did not specify that we should live by every word that comes from the mouth of God…unless He commands something that has an aspect that could be considered to be ceremonial, in which case that would be unreasonable for God to command and we should rebel against Him.

Sorry I dont understand what you are saying

 

[Doug]

I know people will reason anything on these websites to support their views-but even so:

Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. Acts15:1&2

[Acts 15:7 KJV] "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."
Peter is talking about the Gentiles saved in Acts 10:45. The dispute was if they had to keep the law and be circumcised

 

[shepherdsword]

[Acts 15:7 KJV] "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."
Peter is talking about the Gentiles saved in Acts 10:45. The dispute was if they had to keep the law and be circumcised

Paul and John agree here:

1 Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

2 Jn 9-10 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[Doug]

Paul and John agree here:

1 Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,




2 Jn 9-10 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The doctrine maybe different

 

[saved by grace 101]

[Acts 15:7 KJV] "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."
Peter is talking about the Gentiles saved in Acts 10:45. The dispute was if they had to keep the law and be circumcised

I have discussed this with many dispensationalists, none of them have tried to explain this away as you have. Paul took the letter to the churches, not Cornelius and his family. But I do understand, anything will be stated-however extraordinary, in order to defend preconceived denominational beliefs.

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul and John agree here:

1 Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,




2 Jn 9-10 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

as would they all have agreed . To the trenches my friend

 

[saved by grace 101]

Paul and John agree here:

1 Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

2 Jn 9-10 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I would say Paul would have heartily endorsed Peter's words, they echo 1Cor15:1-4:

We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” Acts 10:39-43

 

[Doug]

I have discussed this with many dispensationalists, none of them have tried to explain this away as you have. Paul took the letter to the churches, not Cornelius and his family. But I do understand, anything will be stated-however extraordinary, in order to defend preconceived denominational beliefs.

[Acts 15:7 KJV] "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.".......If Peter isnt talking about the Gentiles saved in Acts 10:45 then who is it?
[Acts 15:10 KJV] "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?".........The Gentiles in Acts 10 are the ones in view as to whether they should be circumcised

 

[saved by grace 101]

[Acts 15:7 KJV] "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.".......If Peter isnt talking about the Gentiles saved in Acts 10:45 then who is it?
[Acts 15:10 KJV] "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?".........The Gentiles in Acts 10 are the ones in view as to whether they should be circumcised

The letter was delivered to the churches Paul had been part of and started. In my view, you do not help yourself by trying to make such an argument.

 

[Doug]

The letter was delivered to the churches Paul had been part of and started. In my view, you do not help yourself by trying to make such an argument.

Ok got it but what Gentiles was Peter talking about here..............[Acts 15:7 KJV] "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."

 

[saved by grace 101]

Ok got it but what Gentiles was Peter talking about here..............[Acts 15:7 KJV] "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."

Peter may well have been speaking about Cornelius and his household. However, the decision of the council, suggested by James, was taken in a letter to churches Paul was part of or had began, it was taken to gentiles in the BOC!

 

[Doug]

Peter may well have been speaking about Cornelius and his household.

[Acts 10:2 KJV] "[A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway."..............Cornelius was already devout. There is no verse where it says Cornelius was saved by Petr's preaching, but there is for Gentiles in Acts 10:45

 

[HealthyShape]

You were called to freedom, brothers.
Gal 5:13

Gospel is not "come to Christ and obey the Mosaic Law".

 

[saved by grace 101]

[Acts 10:2 KJV] "[A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway."..............Cornelius was already devout. There is no verse where it says Cornelius was saved by Petr's preaching, but there is for Gentiles in Acts 10:45

Irrelevant. The decision reached by the Jerusalem council was taken by letter to gentile churches you would believe were in the BOC. No getting around that Im afraid, no matter how many rabbit holes you desire to go down

 

[Button]

You were called to freedom, brothers.
Gal 5:13

Gospel is not "come to Christ and obey the Mosaic Law".

It's God's law.

Guess what?

The Gospel is God's law.