The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

[amigo de christo]

Don't know what your definition of deconstruction is, but we always need to be careful of going beyond what is written, lest we become guilty of inventing our own religion. The bible simply isn't teaching that Jesus "deconstructed" the Law. Definition I have of deconstruction is "the reduction of something to its constituent parts in order to reinterpret or present it differently." Going by that definition I would argue that Jesus did the opposite of deconstructing....rather He consolidated the Law. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbour as yourself...on this hangs all the Law and the prophets." There's an old saying that goes, "the whole of something is greater than the sum of its parts." We no longer serve in the old way of the letter of the Law but in the new way of the Spirit....and His laws are written on our hearts/conscience. Jesus taught and gave us the heart/spirit of the Law which is something greater than the letter of it.

Deconstruction came of men . As usual it came in with partial truths of bad examples
but its real goal was to deconstruct the bible itself .

 

[amigo de christo]

That is deconstruction. Jesus boiled down 613 commands to two.

Look what happens when the Pharisees find Jesus (and His disciples) picking and eating grain on the Sabbath.
Food collection on the Sabbath is the most basic violation. Remember the Manna collection? (Ex.16)

Matthew 12:1-8 NIV
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath.
His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them.
2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him,
“Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?
4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—
which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests.
5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple
desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.
7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a]
you would not have condemned the innocent.
8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”


I think "the spirit of the law" is not a biblical statement, it is secular, having to do with human laws. The letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. The Bible says: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." - 2 Corinthians 3:6 NIV

Incorrect . JESUS was accused OF breaking the sabbath .
Falsely i might add . it was not sin to circumsize a child on the sabbath
and thus it was not sin to heal on the sabbath either .
Nor was it sin for david and his men to eat of the bread , WHEN IN DIRE NEED .
Its called learning to rightly divide the t ruth rather than TRYING to DECONSTRUCT .

 

[amigo de christo]

Don't know what your definition of deconstruction is, but we always need to be careful of going beyond what is written, lest we become guilty of inventing our own religion. The bible simply isn't teaching that Jesus "deconstructed" the Law. Definition I have of deconstruction is "the reduction of something to its constituent parts in order to reinterpret or present it differently." Going by that definition I would argue that Jesus did the opposite of deconstructing....rather He consolidated the Law. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbour as yourself...on this hangs all the Law and the prophets." There's an old saying that goes, "the whole of something is greater than the sum of its parts." We no longer serve in the old way of the letter of the Law but in the new way of the Spirit....and His laws are written on our hearts/conscience. Jesus taught and gave us the heart/spirit of the Law which is something greater than the letter of it.

Think not that i came to destroy the law but rather to fullfill .
The LOVE OF JESUS , OF GOD does not trangress , it would have f ullfilled .
Many do naught but try and plant confusion , deconstruction and other methods unto this people .
The LOVE of GOD would have LOVED GOD above all and then your neighbor as yourself .
THERE IS NO law against this , in fact it fullfills the law .
But many have and follow the love of this world which has preached sin and trangression , the acceptance of it
AS love . and that was super deadly on their part .

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you assume you can't have order without law?

There is no order in sin and trangression . Unbelief
There be only REBELLION to THE HOLY GOD .
Ya better start over my friend . Cause there is no LOVE OF GOD
in the allowance of sins and unbeleif as many a universalist has done .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Think not that i came to destroy the law but rather to fullfill .
The LOVE OF JESUS , OF GOD does not trangress , it would have f ullfilled .
Many do naught but try and plant confusion , deconstruction and other methods unto this people .
The LOVE of GOD would have LOVED GOD above all and then your neighbor as yourself .
THERE IS NO law against this , in fact it fullfills the law .
But many have and follow the love of this world which has preached sin and trangression , the acceptance of it
AS love . and that was super deadly on their part .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

Any love that allows rebellion , unbelief upon this people , cometh NOT of GOD .
Its a love that simply teaches REBELLION TO GOD as it omits HIS OWN GOSPEL
and the DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved .
God dont author that . the devil does .

 

[amigo de christo]

The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

Really Deep Topic and difficult to chart out in a forum…and clarify step by step ….
The Who, What, When, Why…

Glory to God,
Taken

Any love that allows rebellion , unbelief upon this people , cometh NOT of GOD .
Its a love that simply teaches REBELLION TO GOD as it omits HIS OWN GOSPEL
and the DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved .
God dont author that . the devil does .

 

[saved by grace 101]

The apostle Paul did not say the law was transitory. That's you, not Paul. What Paul said was transitory, or as the KJV says, was done away with, was the glory. Not the law itself.

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: ”
2 Corinthians 3:7 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

I think further clarification is required as what you have said here is still confusing. Let me first start some are truths that are clearly revealed in Scripture, and with which I am sure would agree.
First, as you have already said, the law itself is not done away with, but is written on our hearts and minds. (2 Cor. 3:3; Heb. 8:10)
Second, nor has the penalty for transgression... Sin... For Paul elsewhere said the wages of sin... (Transgression against the law 1 John 3:4)...is death.
Thirdly, the law, which was at one time written on tables of stone, is now written on the heart. Note that there has been no change to the law. And the law that was on stone is a whole law, unchanged, except for the location.
And finally, I would l like to address some very poor exegesis by many in an attempt to justify a change to the Ten Commandments.
Let us settle once and for all that the change to the law mentioned in Hebrews 7:11-28, has absolutely nothing to do with the law written on stone, not subsequently to that law on our hearts. The change made to the law was to accommodate a change to the Priesthood. The law was changed to allow for Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest. Hebrews 7 explains this very clearly and simply. It is laziness and/or deceit to attempt to make it mean otherwise.

So the law remains as does the penalty. It is the same Ten Commandment law now written on our hearts as that which was on stone. So what is Paul talking about when he said we are no longer under the law? Because that law is now on my heart, does that remove my obligation to obey it? Does it remove the penalty of death if I disobey? If righteousness and justification comes to us from outside the law which you accurately claim, I think we need to affirm that it is only in and through Christ that the law is written on our hearts, there is no condemnation in Christ, and that without Christ, the law remains on stone and we are hence guilty of it's transgression.

With me so far?

If the penalty for transgression of the TC is still in place, would you feel comfortable telling a young teenager who had just reached puberty, that if they dwelt on any impure thought they were in danger of the fires of hell as they would be transgressing the TC?
If all ten are still exactly the same, that would mean, if a person does not observe a set Saturday sabbath they must be condemned to hell if the penalty for transgression is still in place?
Interestingly:
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Therefore:
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
You in your mind must know what has been placed in your mind, you cannot be in ignorance of it. The law in your heart MUST bring heartfelt consciousness of sin if you 'willfully' let's say transgress it. You cannot hide from law placed in your most in ward parts.
Therefore, if a person has no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath, only two things are possible, either that law as written is not placed in believers hearts and minds, or if it is, no one can be a christian without heartfelt consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set saturday sabbath. Interestingly, a particular denomination who insist on a set saturday sabbath, accept people as christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to follow it. Do they not understand the outworking of the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands?

 

[saved by grace 101]

""Why would it be any different today to be placed in a saved state than in biblical times?""
Scripture is our teacher :)
Is LAY HANDS a requirement to receive the HS today ?
All I can find is Eph 1:13, if there's a contradiction with other verses then why is that so ?

We've been over your point already

 

[St. SteVen]

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4

I've made an observation about this verse. I like the KJV

What it says is that sin is ALSO a transgression of the law.
Rather than a transgression of the law is sin.
Notice the word "also" in the interlinear below.

King James Bible
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[St. SteVen]

I've made an observation about this verse. I like the KJV

What it says is that sin is ALSO a transgression of the law.
Rather than a transgression of the law is sin.
Notice the word "also" in the interlinear below.

King James Bible
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

To be clear, this says that every sin is ALSO a transgression of the law. (break one, break all)
Which infers that not every transgression of the law is a sin. For example...

Matthew 12:5 NIV
Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple
desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

 

[St. SteVen]

Definition I have of deconstruction is "the reduction of something to its constituent parts in order to reinterpret or present it differently." Going by that definition I would argue that Jesus did the opposite of deconstructing....rather He consolidated the Law. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbour as yourself...on this hangs all the Law and the prophets."

Remember, when Jesus said, "...on this hangs all the Law and the prophets."
He meant the Books of the Law and Prophets. Not a reference to the laws themselves.

 

[saved by grace 101]

The apostle Paul did not say the law was transitory. That's you, not Paul. What Paul said was transitory, or as the KJV says, was done away with, was the glory. Not the law itself.

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: ”
2 Corinthians 3:7 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

I think further clarification is required as what you have said here is still confusing. Let me first start some are truths that are clearly revealed in Scripture, and with which I am sure would agree.
First, as you have already said, the law itself is not done away with, but is written on our hearts and minds. (2 Cor. 3:3; Heb. 8:10)
Second, nor has the penalty for transgression... Sin... For Paul elsewhere said the wages of sin... (Transgression against the law 1 John 3:4)...is death.
Thirdly, the law, which was at one time written on tables of stone, is now written on the heart. Note that there has been no change to the law. And the law that was on stone is a whole law, unchanged, except for the location.
And finally, I would l like to address some very poor exegesis by many in an attempt to justify a change to the Ten Commandments.
Let us settle once and for all that the change to the law mentioned in Hebrews 7:11-28, has absolutely nothing to do with the law written on stone, not subsequently to that law on our hearts. The change made to the law was to accommodate a change to the Priesthood. The law was changed to allow for Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest. Hebrews 7 explains this very clearly and simply. It is laziness and/or deceit to attempt to make it mean otherwise.

So the law remains as does the penalty. It is the same Ten Commandment law now written on our hearts as that which was on stone. So what is Paul talking about when he said we are no longer under the law? Because that law is now on my heart, does that remove my obligation to obey it? Does it remove the penalty of death if I disobey? If righteousness and justification comes to us from outside the law which you accurately claim, I think we need to affirm that it is only in and through Christ that the law is written on our hearts, there is no condemnation in Christ, and that without Christ, the law remains on stone and we are hence guilty of it's transgression.

With me so far?

BTW
In my experience, over decades, those who relentlessly stress ''law''/the ten commandments live with a watered down version of those commands, I hope you will agree, that is not biblical. You have made clear your view the penalty of sin is in place for transgression, so let's look at some of what is entailed in obeying the TC:

You must never put anything before God in your life
You must not erect any graven image in your mind
You must not tell even a little fib about another
You must not dwell on any impure thought.
You must not look at a woman with lust in your eye(Jesus ratified the commandment)
You must not desire anything of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household.
Remember the wording, ''Thou shalt NOT'' No wiggle room for error, perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them
Should we move onto the second greatest commandment, and Jesus teaching concerning loving others
You must even love your enemies, for real in your heart, in thought, word and deed, those who may malign, harass or persecute you.
I do hope those who stress law with the penalty in place for transgression take note of all of this, as Jesus said:
The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you Matt 7:2

If you quoted me word for word I wrote, law as we naturally understand law to mean has been abolished, what is written in the moral law remains, apart from the wording of one!
So, if you were to transgress the commands as I mentioned them to you, would you expect to be cast into hell?

 

[Taken]

Any love that allows rebellion , unbelief upon this people , cometh NOT of GOD .
Its a love that simply teaches REBELLION TO GOD as it omits HIS OWN GOSPEL
and the DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved .
God dont author that . the devil does .

FREEWILL is of Gods Design For and Of His created and made Earthly manKind.

God Loves all of manKIND, whether or not ManKIND chooses to Love God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

This not referring to the laws themselves but rather the Books of the Law. (Torah)
Jesus goes on to refer to the laws as hearsay. "You have heard that it was said... But I tell you..."

Galatians 3:24 NIV
So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.

Nope. You are simply not understanding that by 'my' Lord Jesus giving the 'spirit' of those laws, He was contrasting the fallacy of the Pharisee thinking in their 'ROTE' application of those laws, like what YOU YOURSELF believe about them.

You cannot have Apostle Paul saying the 'law is good' per 1 Timothy 1:8 while YOU infer the law is not good, and at the same time claim to be a believing Christian. So who are you? A follower of the OCCULT?

 

[St. SteVen]

You cannot have Apostle Paul saying the 'law is good' per 1 Timothy 1:8 while YOU infer the law is not good, and at the same time claim to be a believing Christian.

Recommended reading.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Davy]

Recommended reading.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Nah... I had already read your posts on that before.

What YOU should read, is your Bible...

1 Timonthy 1:5-11
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Galatians 5
Romans 7 & 8

 

[Brakelite]

It is without the Mosaic Law. No kingdom is given the Mosaic Law to keep, neither earthly kingdoms nor the heavenly one.

What law then is the foundation of the kingdom of God?

 

[Brakelite]

Do you assume you can't have order without law?

All creation testifies to and is operating from the context of law. Science is the discovery of how law governs the planet. Science would not exist without law. Mathematics... Physics... Biology... All governed by laws established by our Creator.
Spiritual and human interpersonal relationships operate on a similar vein. Jesus explained this throughout His ministry. What law governs relationships between people, and between people and God?

 

[Brakelite]

If the penalty for transgression of the TC is still in place, would you feel comfortable telling a young teenager who had just reached puberty, that if they dwelt on any impure thought they were in danger of the fires of hell as they would be transgressing the TC?
If all ten are still exactly the same, that would mean, if a person does not observe a set Saturday sabbath they must be condemned to hell if the penalty for transgression is still in place?
Interestingly:
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Therefore:
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
You in your mind must know what has been placed in your mind, you cannot be in ignorance of it. The law in your heart MUST bring heartfelt consciousness of sin if you 'willfully' let's say transgress it. You cannot hide from law placed in your most in ward parts.
Therefore, if a person has no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday sabbath, only two things are possible, either that law as written is not placed in believers hearts and minds, or if it is, no one can be a christian without heartfelt consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set saturday sabbath. Interestingly, a particular denomination who insist on a set saturday sabbath, accept people as christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to follow it. Do they not understand the outworking of the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands?

The law being written on your heart isn't in the form of letters and words. It's in the form of love for God and your fellow man. In the practice and outworking of that love, the law is fulfilled, "for love is the fulfillment of the law". However, you and I know that there are times when we transgess the law, because we don't always love as we ought. When that happens, and or conscious pricks us, our response is not, "I must try harder to obey the law", but rather, "forgive me Father I have sinned, please fill me with your Spirit that I may love as you love". Then our lives change.
The same with the Sabbath. My church isn't interested in condemning anyone who keeps Sunday. We know that Sunday keepers love Jesus. Maybe not all as much as they ought, but not all Sabbath keepers love Jesus as they ought to either. But we will point out that the law hasn't changed. The 7th commandment hasn't changed. But we don't go round churches calling out adulterers except they commit that sin openly and it brings shame upon God's people. And the Sabbath? It's in the law. What's my recommendation? Love Jesus. Enquire of Him in serious prayer and soul searching what He would have you to do.
"If ye love Me, keep My commandments".