Is it possible to lose salvation?

[walter]

No matter what we want to call it, shouldn't we include all these scriptures in our understanding?

Ephesians 2:8-10
Contemporary English Version
You were saved by faith in God, who treats us much better than we deserve. This is God's gift to you, and not anything you have done on your own. 9 It isn't something you have earned, so there is nothing you can brag about. 10 God planned for us to do good things and to live as he has always wanted us to live. This is why he sent Christ to make us what we are.

James 1:22
New International Version
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

Luke 8:21
New International Version
He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”

Matthew 7:17
Berean Standard Bible
Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Hebrews 5:9
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And in this way he was perfected and became the cause of eternal life to all those who obey him.

Matthew 28:20
New King James Version
teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Matthew 7:21
New King James Version
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

1 John 3:7
NASB 1995
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

Matthew 7:24
New International Version
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Luke 6:46
New International Version
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

 

[PinSeeker]

Certainly not at birth.

Hmmm. Try again... <smile> Well, actually, right, we don't become that way at birth, as if we were not that way before. But we are born that way. "By nature," as Paul says there in Ephesians 2:3. So, naturally. It is the natural human condition. From birth.. even from conception, really. By nature.

We may become a reprobate (Rom 1) or a vessel of wrath (Rom 9) when God's patience has endured (Rom 9:22)

That's not what the text says, ProDeo. What Paul is saying, ProDeo, is that even though they are in this state ~ "by nature," so from conception/birth ~ God endures them with much patience. Now, for many ~ God's elect ~ they do, at the time of new birth by the Spirit, become vessels of mercy... because they receive His mercy. As God Himself says (and Moses in Exodus and Paul here quotes Him as saying, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So, Paul says, "He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills." I mean, case in point; this can be so, so hard to accept. But yet it is what it is.

Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

Are we all sinners?, of course.

Right, by nature. So, by nature, we are all reprobate. This is the natural human condition. From birth. See above.

Amen and blessings.

To you also. Grace and peace to you.

 

[ProDeo]

Right, by nature. So, by nature, we are all reprobate. This is the natural human condition. From birth. See above.

So, when we leave the womb, we are already with one foot in hell ?

Babies of wrath?

Then explain what Paul says about children :

1Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

or is it :

Efez 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

It can't be both.

Your turn.

 

[Christian Soldier]

why do you need to belong to a demination, why choose one in particular, why not just follow the words if Jesus, is he not the cornerstone of the church? about Jesus, except fot his parables, his words are clear, for the parables, I know their meaning so just ask me if you need. Jesus followers followed him and him only, he is the one we look up to and no one else. only Judas was against Christ,and perhaps one of siblings that is all. the jews were against him and rejected him but there were divisions also there some did believe.

I don't belong to a denomination, because the Body of Christ (the Church is not made up of opposing denominations who hate each other). There is no hate in the Body of Christ, we are all one Body, and nobody has ever hated their own flesh.

Your advice doesn't make any sense at all, you say "why not just follow the words of Jesus". I already tried to explain why that's impossible. You are suggesting that I become a cannibal, and blood drinker. Can you see how ridiculous your suggestion is.
You also suggest I hate my own family, that is pure hate speech, then you tried to convince me that you know the meaning of scripture, and that I should ask you. But my better judgement tells me to run as far away from people like you.

The awful truth is, there are none who understand Gods Word, and there are none who follow Him. Not even His favourite Apostle peter believed in Him, that's why Jesus referred to him as Satan. Not to mentioned the rest of His Apostles, who also deserted Him because they didn't believe in Him and they wanted nothing to do with Him.

This is how all of us are, we pretend to believe in Him while it costs us nothing, but we quickly betray Him and dessert Him when it costs us money or our friends or reputation. This is also why everyone twists the scriptures to justify their rejection of the awful truth.

The good news for those of us who are the elect of of God, is that Jesus knows that we will betray Him, but thank God we are not saved by our obedience or good works. We are saved by grace.

Isaiah 53:3: "He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him."

Matthew 16:23 "But He turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men'"

John 16:32 "Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me".

If Gods people (the elect) reject Him and His Word. What hope is there for the fake Christians?

 

[Christian Soldier]

You are a joke. Nice parody though.
You work very hard to keep from explaining just how all your contradictions of scripture work. By the way Arminius is in the same boat as Calvin on several issues as well. His view in many respects are much different from Calvinism, but he is still a man and his personal view has no more validity than Calvin's.
I understand your dilemma since within early Protestantism, the idea of the solas was developed. Its premise was that the freedom of the individual conscience was paramount. Thus when a protestant studies scripture what he develops in his mind as the meaning is his truth. Which is how there can be thousands of truths. It is mind boggling to actually understand such nonsense especially when they claim the name of the Holy Spirit is the cause of all these truths. It is a gross misunderstanding of the work of the Holy Spirit to say the least.

But carry on,
Happy New Year

No, your theology is a joke because it is not supported by any scripture. It is all based on your idol Jacob Arminius.
You have bee ducking and weaving, trying to evade the question of who you are.

You claim that your not a Calvinist (one who believes that salvation is by grace) as the bible clearly sates. So that means you believe that salvation is "by works", but you also deny this as well so that means you believe that "salvation is by nothing".

Why don't you stop your foolish nonsense and come out of the closet and let us see your true face. The longer you say locked in your "fortress of ignorance", the more condemnation you accumulate.

Can you please put me out of my misery and hit me with the awful truth, I promise I won't report you to the celestial police.

Now try to have a happy new year

 

[LoveYeshua]

I don't belong to a denomination, because the Body of Christ (the Church is not made up of opposing denominations who hate each other). There is no hate in the Body of Christ, we are all one Body, and nobody has ever hated their own flesh.

Your advice doesn't make any sense at all, you say "why not just follow the words of Jesus". I already tried to explain why that's impossible. You are suggesting that I become a cannibal, and blood drinker. Can you see how ridiculous your suggestion is.
You also suggest I hate my own family, that is pure hate speech, then you tried to convince me that you know the meaning of scripture, and that I should ask you. But my better judgement tells me to run as far away from people like you.

The awful truth is, there are none who understand Gods Word, and there are none who follow Him. Not even His favourite Apostle peter believed in Him, that's why Jesus referred to him as Satan. Not to mentioned the rest of His Apostles, who also deserted Him because they didn't believe in Him and they wanted nothing to do with Him.

This is how all of us are, we pretend to believe in Him while it costs us nothing, but we quickly betray Him and dessert Him when it costs us money or our friends or reputation. This is also why everyone twists the scriptures to justify their rejection of the awful truth.

The good news for those of us who are the elect of of God, is that Jesus knows that we will betray Him, but thank God we are not saved by our obedience or good works. We are saved by grace.

Isaiah 53:3: "He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him."

Matthew 16:23 "But He turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men'"

John 16:32 "Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me".

If Gods people (the elect) reject Him and His Word. What hope is there for the fake Christians?

there is no point for me to waste precious time writing to you trying to make you understand and I have to let you go, I can be of better use to others this way, take care and read more!.. and maybe, if God permits, you will understand scripture one day.

 

[Ezra]

252 POST LATER AND NO BODY HAS PROVEN A THING

 

[Rightglory]

No, your theology is a joke because it is not supported by any scripture. It is all based on your idol Jacob Arminius.
You have bee ducking and weaving, trying to evade the question of who you are.

You claim that your not a Calvinist (one who believes that salvation is by grace) as the bible clearly sates. So that means you believe that salvation is "by works", but you also deny this as well so that means you believe that "salvation is by nothing".

Why don't you stop your foolish nonsense and come out of the closet and let us see your true face. The longer you say locked in your "fortress of ignorance", the more condemnation you accumulate.

Can you please put me out of my misery and hit me with the awful truth, I promise I won't report you to the celestial police.

Now try to have a happy new year

As all discussions that are based on personal interpretation will never end with any agreement on any issue. That seems to be the standard fare for any Protestant discussion. Man's ego cannot be overcome and personal opinion ends up being as many truths as there are individuals proclaiming their truth. The Bible becomes smorgasbord of options rather than THE TRUTH.
So, have a good new year.

 

[PinSeeker]

So, when we leave the womb, we are already with one foot in hell ?

Deserving of it, yes. When we are newly born, we may or may not have sinned outwardly (and probably not), but this is not the issue. The problem is the state of the heart, the nature of the person, the spirit that person even as an infant has in him/her. We are born in this sinful state, just as David said of himself in Psalm 51:5 ~ "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Babies of wrath?

We are all "children of wrath" from the very get-go ~ conception, really ~ unless and until we are born again of the Holy Spirit. This is what Paul says, ProDeo. We have this sinful nature, the same sinful nature that Adam and Eve acquired, or took on, as a result of what he did in the events of Genesis 3. And so, "...sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned..." (Romans 5:12).

Then explain what Paul says about children :

1Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Well sure. Actually, to answer this, I'm going to try to get you to answer it correctly for yourself by asking you a question, ProDeo. What does 'holy' mean? Does it mean 'sinless,' without sin? Can anyone of any age be saved by his or her mother or father?

Now, you can answer that correctly, I'm sure, but I will: No. <smile> Paul is surely not saying the unbelieving spouse and/or the children are saved by this association or that he or she can actually make his or her spouse and/or children holy by any means. No person can save another or make him or her holy; only God can do that. However, the unbelieving spouse and children do come under the believing spouse's Christian influence, and so, as Paul notes, they are much more likely to be saved in due course through their own faith. So, God can do this through the believing spouse. Even before they are saved, though, they are in a real sense set apart ~ the true meaning of 'holy' ~ by God, from unbelievers and the evil of the world, even though they are unbelievers. Thus the positive spiritual and moral influence of the believing parent outweighs the negative influence of the unbelieving parent. But as for the believing spouse "making them sinless," even from birth? No.

or is it :

Efez 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

It can't be both.

It can. And is.

Your turn.

Sure; there ya go... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, ProDeo. Happy New Year.

 

[shepherdsword]

The article cites Gal 1:6 as a proof text against pagan influences and not the judaizing heresy that it is really about, and by extension, the entire epistle. Then proceeds to promote judiazing doctrine while bringing up the old canard of Constantine corrupted the church. Which is pretty amusing since the Arian resurgence occurs shortly after and became dominate over and against the Nicaens. It would take another 80 years for Arianism to finally die out. So if the goal was to corrupt the church, I would say he did a pretty awful job at it..

Unfortunately, there has been a resurgence of that old heresy of Arianism, that is deceiving many.

 

[LoveYeshua]

252 POST LATER AND NO BODY HAS PROVEN A THING

what do you need proved? all I know and talk about is from scripture and is always accompanied by proper verses in the proper context, I quadruple check everything especially for the opening posts before I post.

 

[Ezra]

what do you need proved?

i dont need a thing proved... i know (personal relationship ) in whom i have beloved. i also know my salvation is Kept by the power of God. . i dont know how you believe on our security of our salvation . at the Church i pastor we have a banner that reads. if your %99 saved your %100 lost .

i can go to bed at night knowing i am saved and wake up still saved. i also know if i sin i have a advocate and i also know if i sin i am to confess my sins.. (my part) then He is just and able to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness { His part . ] our security is NOT a license to sin paul covered that in romans 6

 

[Christian Soldier]

there is no point for me to waste precious time writing to you trying to make you understand and I have to let you go, I can be of better use to others this way, take care and read more!.. and maybe, if God permits, you will understand scripture one day.

Wish you lots of luck in convincing others to agree with your private opinions. Just remember that opinions are like noses, everybody has their own (unbiblical opinion)

 

[Christian Soldier]

As all discussions that are based on personal interpretation will never end with any agreement on any issue. That seems to be the standard fare for any Protestant discussion. Man's ego cannot be overcome and personal opinion ends up being as many truths as there are individuals proclaiming their truth. The Bible becomes smorgasbord of options rather than THE TRUTH.
So, have a good new year.

Gods people (born again believers) are supposed to encourage each other or as the Apostle Paul put it (exhort each other, to obedience and good works). But this is not possible if we don't have fellowship (fellowship is when two or more believers agree on bible doctrines and theology in general).

We don't agree on anything, since you don't believe any of the core bible doctrines. You don't believe that God is sovereign over all things, you don't believe what God said about salvation, you reject most of what the Lord Jesus said about salvation, sin, judgement, faith, grace, election, reprobation, predestination, the atonement and most other things pertaining to the correct interpretation of scripture.

You hold very firmly to the gospel according to Jacob Arminius, as with all Arminians, you deny it but your theology is identical to his and that's what matters. You refuse to disclose which Denomination, has indoctrinated you with your unbiblical theology.

You have never once found a single fault with any of my doctrinal views, because they are all based on Gods Word and I always back every statement with Gods Word. But you have never been able to support any of your claims by scripture, you always resort to mans philosophy and the wisdom of the ancient primitive Gnostics who taught heresy.

 

[PinSeeker]

...You refuse to disclose which Denomination...

It might be the Non-Denominational denomination. <smile>

Grace and peace to you, CS.

 

[Ezra]

You refuse to disclose which Denomination, has indoctrinated you with your unbiblical theology.

what denom has influenced indoctrinated you?

 

[LoveYeshua]

i dont need a thing proved... i know (personal relationship ) in whom i have beloved. i also know my salvation is Kept by the power of God. . i dont know how you believe on our security of our salvation . at the Church i pastor we have a banner that reads. if your %99 saved your %100 lost .

i can go to bed at night knowing i am saved and wake up still saved. i also know if i sin i have a advocate and i also know if i sin i am to confess my sins.. (my part) then He is just and able to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness { His part . ] our security is NOT a license to sin paul covered that in romans 6

Ezra, what did Jesus said we must to to be saved? do you what he asked?

 

[Ezra]

do you what he asked?

do what ?

 

[Wrangler]

252 POST LATER AND NO BODY HAS PROVEN A THING

Wrong. What proof will you accept? Christ said to abide in him AND he will abide in us. The only reason for him to say this is because we have the ability to NOT abide in him.

 

[Ezra]

Wrong. What proof will you accept? Christ said to abide in him AND he will abide in us. The only reason for him to say this is because we have the ability to NOT abide in him.

lol that is a age old argument look i could care less if you believe you can lose your salvation or if you dont . i can post just as many if not more scriptures on the security of salvation

1peter1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

if you got something You can lose that is kept by a power.. you never had anything to start with.

before you go off trying to prove me wrong which your not..because the true vine is dealing with chastisement . . never the less .. i do not buy into doing as one wants if they want when they want and still be saved.. they never had it to start with.. a true blue child of God will come to his senses < prodigal son > get out of the pig pen .note his father was happy to see him. his oldest brother was not happy dad threw a celebration.. He Goes after the one leaving the 99 behind btw the only way to survive is abide in him.. if your not abiding is him.. you never had salvation and can not bear fruit