"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[XtraPercept]

Funny to me that in Hebrew it is called the 'shema,' pronounced like "shame-ah," in that it is to the so-called church's shame-ah that they can't believe such a simple statement:

"Hear O Israel, the LORD your God is One!"

But @JustMe, for whom do you contend? If for Truth, then consider if He would smile on your approach, as complaisance trumps skill in debate for the purpose of glorifying God.

 

[JustMe]

When I first joined internet debating websites at the tender age of fifty, I entered a thread entitled did Jesus claim to be God when he walked this earth? In my innocence I left a simple message. 'No he didn't' I immediatley got pounced on by a pentecostal telling me I was misleading people. He then hounded me around the website for two weeks demanding I discuss the subject with him. To say I was stunned is not an overstatement. In going to various trinitarian denominational churches for over forty years, I had never once heard it stated from pulpit Christ is God himself, let alone you must believe it to inherit eternal life
I rang a friend who had also been to trinitarian churches for forty years, and asked him if he'd ever heard it stated from the pulpit. He hadn't either.
The internet is a strange place at times

Before I turned 17, I would have responded just like you. Growing up in a religious trinitarian setting until I got married, I would still firmly say NO, since I was never taught that the Son was also God, nor did I ever hear it mentioned to make me say 'yes.'

I have been banned several times on these kinds of websites because I strongly disagreed with the popular belief that the Son of God is also the God the Son, and I expressed my opposition openly. However, I have calmed down a bit since then, as it hasn't been helpful in the long term, and my message often falls on deaf ears.

 

[JustMe]

Funny to me that in Hebrew it is called the 'shema,' pronounced like "shame-ah," in that it is to the so-called church's shame-ah that they can't believe such a simple statement:

"Hear O Israel, the LORD your God is One!"

But @JustMe, for whom do you contend? If for Truth, then consider if He would smile on your approach, as complaisance trumps skill in debate for the purpose of glorifying God.

I don't know, although my first knee-jerk reaction is that the truth, for the truth, is number one. Pleasing others or compromising to get along, would be far from my mind at that point.

 

[JustMe]

You, a non-Christian, telling @amigo de christo , a Christian that knows Scripture backwards and forwards, to read the Bible, is truly a sight to behold.

You spew your poison,,,,and are blaspheming God while insulting His children.

There should be no further response to you or your buddies.

Sounds like you need some sleep, or a little break. Take care...the year is still new

 

[XtraPercept]

Before I turned 17, I would have responded just like you. Growing up in a religious trinitarian setting until I got married, I would still firmly say NO, since I was never taught that the Son was also God, nor did I ever hear it mentioned to make me say 'yes.'

I have been banned several times on these kinds of websites because I strongly disagreed with the popular belief that the Son of God is also the God the Son, and I expressed my opposition openly. However, I have calmed down a bit since then, as it hasn't been helpful in the long term, and my message often falls on deaf ears.

With irrationality as a foundation (in that incomprehensibility is inextricable from the trinity; the mystery math of three being one), all manner of divine meaning is willfully abdicated from Scripture for the belief that justification comes after death in the escape from a fiery hell to eternal bliss by virtue of insistence in self-righteousness.

It is completely delusional in a tragedy of divinely comedic proportions.

 

[XtraPercept]

I don't know, although my first knee-jerk reaction is that the truth, for the truth, is number one. Pleasing others or compromising to get along, would be far from my mind at that point.

The truth is that the God of truth delights in kindness and compassion, and would have that His servants demonstrate His regality at all times. If you wish to serve Him, then strive to do so. You might begin by considering how you could utilize truth and understanding to provide benefit among those with whom you share it.

But of course, it is the fear of God from which stems all wisdom.

 

[XtraPercept]

I don't know, although my first knee-jerk reaction is that the truth, for the truth, is number one. Pleasing others or compromising to get along, would be far from my mind at that point.

Don't be disingenuous. You looked up the word online. The deeper meaning, as one as skilled as you purport yourself to be should recognize, is one of amicability, a skill of social ability born of genuine love for another person as could only be demonstrated by one operating in the euphoria of true salvation.

Euphoria being from latin for one carried well or one who bears good things or even one who carries theirself well, but the truest sense is the everlasting joy of unity with the God of truth.

Edit: I really don't know if it is theirself or themself, but I don't like editing so I'll know for next time it comes up but not right now...

 

[JustMe]

With irrationality as a foundation (in that incomprehensibility is inextricable from the trinity; the mystery math of three being one), all manner of divine meaning is willfully abdicated from Scripture for the belief that justification comes after death in the escape from a fiery hell to eternal bliss by virtue of insistence in self-righteousness.

It is completely delusional in a tragedy of divinely comedic proportions.

Well expressed, and concluding with an unexpected and divine pun. It could be interpreted as a reference to Dante's perspective on discovering the true spiritual truth in the end. Despite profound mental and physical confusion and suffering, which can be deeply discouraging, this process is seen as part of a divine plan—a larger, divinely guided journey toward ultimate truth and clarity. This aligns with the belief that even those in darkness can achieve a redemptive, salvific outcome. Perhaps the widespread delusion many experience today will dissipate completely before the final judgment arrives.

 

[Adventageous]

Funny to me that in Hebrew it is called the 'shema,' pronounced like "shame-ah," in that it is to the so-called church's shame-ah that they can't believe such a simple statement:

"Hear O Israel, the LORD your God is One!"

But @JustMe, for whom do you contend? If for Truth, then consider if He would smile on your approach, as complaisance trumps skill in debate for the purpose of glorifying God.

Hello. I am going to quote from the following book, pages 18-19 - Godhead - The Eternal Heavenly Trio : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

"... [page 18] Finally, what of Deu. 6:4 KJB, HOT, wherein it seems that [H430] “אלהינו”, “élohëynû” is singularity, rather than true plurality? Look at the text carefully:​

​

Deuteronomy 6:4 KJB - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:​

​

Deuteronomy 6:4 HOT - שׁמע ישׂראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד׃​

​

Deuteronomy 6:4 HOT Transliterated - sh'ma yis'räël j'hväh élohëynû j'hväh echäd​

​

What the text plainly says, is not what many say that it says. What the text plainly says, is that, “Listen (Hear with understanding), (the peoples of the) Israel (descendants of Jacob / Israel): JEHOVAH (singular family name) our (the peoples, by creation of and covenant relationship to) “élohëynû” (Gods, plurality; N-mpc | 1cp; Noun, masculine, plural, genitival pronoun, 1st person, common, plural – biblehub.com/interlinear/Deuteronomy/6-4.htm ) [is] “one” (a unity of, a harmony of, a chord of; singularity of purpose, not of Persons / Beings; see the ‘marriage’ of Man (Adam) & Woman (Eve) by the Holy Spirit of God, Gen. 2:24 KJB, HOT, [H259] “אחד׃”, “echäd”, “one”) JEHOVAH (singular family name). [page 18-19]​

​

In other words, the Eternal family (élohëynû) of Persons / Beings shares a singular Family name (JEHOVAH), as well as a singular goal, and / or purpose in their Eternal love. The Father is “JEHOVAH”, “the Ancient of days” (Dan. 7:9,13,22 KJB), thus ‘JEHOVAH Sr.’, and the Son is “Jesus” “JEHOVAH” (H3444; H3068; “ישׁועתה ליהוה”; Gen. 49:18; Exo. 14:13; 2 Chr. 20:17; Jon. 2:10; Psa. 119:174 HOT), or “JEHOVAH” “E / Immanuel” ((Psa. 46:7,11 KJB) Psa. 46:8,12 HOT, (H3068; H5973; H430), “יהוה ... עמנו... אלהי”), or ‘JEHOVAH Jr.’ (a Son with the same name as His Father; Exo. 23:21; Mat. 1:21; Jhn. 5:43, 10:25 KJB), and the Holy Ghost / Spirit, is “the [Holy] Spirit of the LORD (JEHOVAH)” (2 Sam. 23:2 KJB, HOT; &c.), or ‘JEHOVAH’s Holy Spirit’. While this Chapter’s primary function is to discuss [H430] “אלהים”, “'ĕlôhı̂ym” as true plurality, the other sentiments and the name (JEHOVAH) of [H430] “אלהים”, “'ĕlôhı̂ym” shall be discussed in further detail in the Chapters to follow. ..."​

 

[XtraPercept]

Well expressed, and concluding with an unexpected and divine pun. It could be interpreted as a reference to Dante's perspective on discovering the true spiritual truth in the end. Despite profound mental and physical confusion and suffering, which can be deeply discouraging, this process is seen as part of a divine plan—a larger, divinely guided journey toward ultimate truth and clarity. This aligns with the belief that even those in darkness can achieve a redemptive, salvific outcome. Perhaps the widespread delusion many experience today will dissipate completely before the final judgment arrives.

Okay, cool. I hope to encourage you. My intent is to demonstrate the Gospel, and by your grasp of the word and manner of expression I gather you would likewise aim so high. God bless your efforts toward Him.

 

[JustMe]

Don't be disingenuous. You looked up the word online. The deeper meaning, as one as skilled as you purport yourself to be should recognize, is one of amicability, a skill of social ability born of genuine love for another person as could only be demonstrated by one operating in the euphoria of true salvation.

Euphoria being from latin for one carried well or one who bears good things or even one who carries theirself well, but the truest sense is the everlasting joy of unity with the God of truth.

Edit: I really don't know if it is theirself or themself, but I don't like editing so I'll know for next time it comes up but not right now...

So what is your point here?

Probing and analyzing my motives into why I love the truth in spirit and mind, at all costs, as benefit for your next move as in a game of strategy to win some kind of prize?

And yes, I do want to get along with everyone indeed, and love in behind most of what I say and do. And I'm not looking for a formal debate of wits on this forum. The truth still rings loudly, with me, and the spirit that possesses me.

 

[XtraPercept]

So what is your point here?

Probing and analyzing my motives into why I love the truth in spirit and mind, at all costs, as benefit for your next move as in a game of strategy to win some kind of prize?

And yes, I do want to get along with everyone indeed, and love in behind most of what I say and do. And I'm not looking for a formal debate of wits on this forum. The truth still rings loudly, with me, and the spirit that possesses me.

My only point was be authentic, and I may have diminished it by abrasiveness of my own, for which I apologize. I mean well.

I still need to learn to slow my roll. Speeding is the spoil and hastening is the prey, after all...

 

[JustMe]

Okay, cool. I hope to encourage you. My intent is to demonstrate the Gospel, and by your grasp of the word and manner of expression I gather you would likewise aim so high. God bless your efforts toward Him.

Well thank you. I am a little cautious at times and that can be a hindrance for me.

 

[XtraPercept]

Well thank you. I am a little cautious at times and that can be a hindrance for me.

Boldness comes from Certainty.

 

[Adventageous]

Boldness comes from Certainty.

I agree, and there is nothing more bold, in being so certain, in writing and publishing a book, for all the world to critique, and how do I know? Just ask JEHOVAH Elohiym in regards the Bible - "Before Abraham Was, I AM"

 

[Hiddenthings]

Hello. I am going to quote from the following book, pages 18-19 - Godhead - The Eternal Heavenly Trio : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

"... [page 18] Finally, what of Deu. 6:4 KJB, HOT, wherein it seems that [H430] “אלהינו”, “élohëynû” is singularity, rather than true plurality? Look at the text carefully:​

​

Deuteronomy 6:4 KJB - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:​

​

Deuteronomy 6:4 HOT - שׁמע ישׂראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד׃​

​

Deuteronomy 6:4 HOT Transliterated - sh'ma yis'räël j'hväh élohëynû j'hväh echäd​

​

What the text plainly says, is not what many say that it says. What the text plainly says, is that, “Listen (Hear with understanding), (the peoples of the) Israel (descendants of Jacob / Israel): JEHOVAH (singular family name) our (the peoples, by creation of and covenant relationship to) “élohëynû” (Gods, plurality; N-mpc | 1cp; Noun, masculine, plural, genitival pronoun, 1st person, common, plural – biblehub.com/interlinear/Deuteronomy/6-4.htm ) [is] “one” (a unity of, a harmony of, a chord of; singularity of purpose, not of Persons / Beings; see the ‘marriage’ of Man (Adam) & Woman (Eve) by the Holy Spirit of God, Gen. 2:24 KJB, HOT, [H259] “אחד׃”, “echäd”, “one”) JEHOVAH (singular family name). [page 18-19]​

​

In other words, the Eternal family (élohëynû) of Persons / Beings shares a singular Family name (JEHOVAH), as well as a singular goal, and / or purpose in their Eternal love. The Father is “JEHOVAH”, “the Ancient of days” (Dan. 7:9,13,22 KJB), thus ‘JEHOVAH Sr.’, and the Son is “Jesus” “JEHOVAH” (H3444; H3068; “ישׁועתה ליהוה”; Gen. 49:18; Exo. 14:13; 2 Chr. 20:17; Jon. 2:10; Psa. 119:174 HOT), or “JEHOVAH” “E / Immanuel” ((Psa. 46:7,11 KJB) Psa. 46:8,12 HOT, (H3068; H5973; H430), “יהוה ... עמנו... אלהי”), or ‘JEHOVAH Jr.’ (a Son with the same name as His Father; Exo. 23:21; Mat. 1:21; Jhn. 5:43, 10:25 KJB), and the Holy Ghost / Spirit, is “the [Holy] Spirit of the LORD (JEHOVAH)” (2 Sam. 23:2 KJB, HOT; &c.), or ‘JEHOVAH’s Holy Spirit’. While this Chapter’s primary function is to discuss [H430] “אלהים”, “'ĕlôhı̂ym” as true plurality, the other sentiments and the name (JEHOVAH) of [H430] “אלהים”, “'ĕlôhı̂ym” shall be discussed in further detail in the Chapters to follow. ..."​

I am satisfied with any exegetical approach that upholds Yahweh as the One, Singular, All-Powerful God, a Single Divine Person, who accomplishes His will through appointed agents, including angels, saints, and His Son.

 

[Adventageous]

I am satisfied with any exegetical approach that upholds Yahweh as the One, Singular, All-Powerful God, a Single Divine Person, who accomplishes His will through appointed agents, including angels, saints, and His Son.

The name is covered in the book, and the misunderstanding of English speakers and German letters, as the "w" in German is a "v" sound, since some of the scholars were German, and the Y to an actual J is also covered in its pronunciation.

As for the approach, as provided in the book, it is based in scripture, to which any may judge for themselves, as scripture asks them to.

The name of the Son is also included in the material.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The name is covered in the book, and the misunderstanding of English speakers and German letters, as the "w" in German is a "v" sound, since some of the scholars were German, and the Y to an actual J is also covered in its pronunciation.

As for the approach, as provided in the book, it is based in scripture, to which nay my judge for themselves, as scripture asks them to.

The name of the Son is also included in the material.

I have "the Book" and nowhere does teach the pre-existence of the Son of David or a triune god.

 

[XtraPercept]

To those who have much, more will be given. To those who have little, even what they have will be taken away...

 

[Hiddenthings]

To those who have much, more will be given. To those who have little, even what they have will be taken away...

The Lord gives abundantly to his servants and rightly requires a proportionate response, whereas men often give sparingly while demanding far more than they deserve.