Refuting Losing Salvation! (B)

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Netchaplain

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“To renew them again” - Implying that they had been before renewed, or had been true Christians. The word “again” - πάλιν palin - supposes this; and this passage, therefore, confirms the considerations suggested above, showing that they were true Christians who were referred to. They had once repented, but it would be impossible to bring them to this state “again.” This declaration of course is to be read in connection with the first clause of Hebrews 6:4, “It is impossible to renew again to repentance those who once were true Christians should they fall away.” I know of no declaration more unambiguous than this. It is a positive declaration. It is not that it would be very difficult to do it; or that it would be impossible for man to do it, though it might be done by God; it is an unequivocal and absolute declaration that it would be utterly impracticable that it should be done by anyone, or by any means; and this, I have no doubt, is the meaning of the apostle. Should a Christian fall from grace, he “must perish,” he never could be saved.



“They crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh . . .” “It means that such an act of apostasy would be equivalent to crucifying him in an aggravated manner. Of course this is to be taken “figuratively.” It could not be literally true that they could thus crucify the Redeemer (again, impossible to re-crucify Christ—NC). “The meaning is, that their conduct would be “as if” they had crucified him; it would bear a strong resemblance to the act by which the Lord Jesus was publicly rejected and condemned to die. The act of crucifying the Son of God was the great crime which out-peers any other deed of human guilt. Yet the apostle says that should they who had been true Christians fall away and reject him, they would be guilty of a similar crime. It would be a public and solemn act of rejecting him. It would show that if they had been there they would have joined in the cry “crucify him, crucify him.”



Albert Barnes: 2Pe 2:22—“The sow that was washed . . . “This proverb is not found in the Old Testament, but it was common in the Rabbinical writings, and is found in the Greek classics. See Wetstein, in loc. Its meaning is plain, and of the truth of what is affirmed no one can have any doubt. No matter how clean the swine is made by washing, this would not prevent it, in the slightest degree, from rolling in filth again. It will act out its real nature. So it is with the sinner. No external reformation will certainly prevent his returning to his former habits; and when he does return, we can only say that he is acting according to his real nature - a nature which has never been changed, any more than the nature of the dog or the swine. On the characteristics of the persons referred to in this chapter, 2 Peter 2:9-19, see the introduction, Section 3.



“This passage is often quoted to prove “the possibility of falling from grace, and from a very high degree of it too.” But it is one of the last passages in the Bible that should be adduced to prove that doctrine. The true point of this passage is to show that the persons referred to never “were changed;” that whatever external reformation might have occurred, their nature remained the same; and that when they apostatized from their outward profession, they merely acted out their nature, and showed that in fact there had been “no” real change. This passage will prove - that there are abundant facts to confirm - that persons may reform externally, and then return again to their former corrupt habits; it can never be made to prove that one true Christian will fall away and perish. It will also prove that we should rely on no mere external reformation, no outward cleansing, as certain evidence of piety. Thousands who have been externally reformed have ultimately shown that they had no religion, and there is nothing in mere outward reformation that can suit us for heaven. God looks upon the heart; and it is only the religion that has its seat there, that can secure our final salvation.”



Albert Barnes: Heb 10:26 “For if we sin willfully,....]” “Which is not to be understood of a single act of sin, but rather of a course of sinning; nor of sins of infirmity through temptation, or even of grosser acts of sin, but of voluntary ones; and not of all voluntary ones, or in which the will is engaged and concerned, but of such which are done on set purpose, resolutely and obstinately; and not of immoral practices, but of corrupt principles, and acting according to them; it intends a total apostasy from the truth, against light and evidence, joined with obstinacy.



“After that we have received the knowledge of the truth;” “Either of Jesus Christ, or of the Scriptures, or of the Gospel, or of some particular doctrine, especially the principal one, salvation by Christ; of which there may be a notional knowledge, when there is no experimental knowledge; and which is received not into the heart, but into the head: and whereas the apostle speaks in the first person plural, we, this is used not so much with regard to himself, but others; that so what he delivered might come with greater weight upon them, and be more readily received by them; when they observed he entertained no hard thoughts or jealousies of them, which would greatly distress the minds of those that were truly gracious. Moreover, the apostles use this way of speaking, when they do not design themselves at all, but others, under the same visible profession of religion, and who belonged to the same community of believers; see 1 Peter 4:3 compared with Acts 22:3. Besides, these words are only hypothetical, and do not prove that true believers could, or should, or do sin in this manner: to which may be added, that true believers are manifestly distinguished from these persons, Hebrews 10:38.”



Albert Barnes - Verse 39. “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition,....”. There is a drawing back which is not unto perdition; persons may be attended with much unbelief, may be very cold and indifferent to Gospel ordinances, may fall into great sins, and may greatly backslide, and yet be recovered, as David, Peter, and others: and there is a drawing back to perdition; when Christ is rejected as the alone Saviour; when he is not held to as the head; when false doctrines and damnable heresies are given into; and when men draw back, and never return, nor are they, nor can they be returned, and their apostasy is total, and final: but true believers do not, and cannot draw back in this sense; because they are held fast in the arms, and with the cords of everlasting love, are chosen of God unto salvation, are given unto Christ, and secured in him; they are redeemed and purchased by him; they are united to him, and built upon him; they are interested in his prayers and preparations, and are his jewels, and his portion; they are regenerated, sanctified, inhabited, and sealed by the Spirit of God, and have the promises and power of God, on their side.”
 

ProverbsInPink

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We cannot fall from the hand of Christ. Ever.
If his covenant wasn't eternal and irrevocable as he said,then skeptics may have an argument though not a valid one.

The meaning of the scripture actually tells us,if we were not purchased with a price and saved eternally then Jesus failed on the cross.
God calls us. He knew us before the womb. When he is within us do we think we can surprise him if we have doubts? If we lose faith does he evict himself from us and take his seal with him? No.

Let every man be called a liar that says to God's Elect,you can lose what God gave you through no choice if your own,by your choice.

Nonsense. God knew whom he called. And his grace is eternally securing us.
 

Paul Christensen

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“To renew them again” - Implying that they had been before renewed, or had been true Christians. The word “again” - πάλιν palin - supposes this; and this passage, therefore, confirms the considerations suggested above, showing that they were true Christians who were referred to. They had once repented, but it would be impossible to bring them to this state “again.” This declaration of course is to be read in connection with the first clause of Hebrews 6:4, “It is impossible to renew again to repentance those who once were true Christians should they fall away.” I know of no declaration more unambiguous than this. It is a positive declaration. It is not that it would be very difficult to do it; or that it would be impossible for man to do it, though it might be done by God; it is an unequivocal and absolute declaration that it would be utterly impracticable that it should be done by anyone, or by any means; and this, I have no doubt, is the meaning of the apostle. Should a Christian fall from grace, he “must perish,” he never could be saved.

“They crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh . . .” “It means that such an act of apostasy would be equivalent to crucifying him in an aggravated manner. Of course this is to be taken “figuratively.” It could not be literally true that they could thus crucify the Redeemer (again, impossible to re-crucify Christ—NC). “The meaning is, that their conduct would be “as if” they had crucified him; it would bear a strong resemblance to the act by which the Lord Jesus was publicly rejected and condemned to die. The act of crucifying the Son of God was the great crime which out-peers any other deed of human guilt. Yet the apostle says that should they who had been true Christians fall away and reject him, they would be guilty of a similar crime. It would be a public and solemn act of rejecting him. It would show that if they had been there they would have joined in the cry “crucify him, crucify him.”



Albert Barnes: 2Pe 2:22—“The sow that was washed . . . “This proverb is not found in the Old Testament, but it was common in the Rabbinical writings, and is found in the Greek classics. See Wetstein, in loc. Its meaning is plain, and of the truth of what is affirmed no one can have any doubt. No matter how clean the swine is made by washing, this would not prevent it, in the slightest degree, from rolling in filth again. It will act out its real nature. So it is with the sinner. No external reformation will certainly prevent his returning to his former habits; and when he does return, we can only say that he is acting according to his real nature - a nature which has never been changed, any more than the nature of the dog or the swine. On the characteristics of the persons referred to in this chapter, 2 Peter 2:9-19, see the introduction, Section 3.



“This passage is often quoted to prove “the possibility of falling from grace, and from a very high degree of it too.” But it is one of the last passages in the Bible that should be adduced to prove that doctrine. The true point of this passage is to show that the persons referred to never “were changed;” that whatever external reformation might have occurred, their nature remained the same; and that when they apostatized from their outward profession, they merely acted out their nature, and showed that in fact there had been “no” real change. This passage will prove - that there are abundant facts to confirm - that persons may reform externally, and then return again to their former corrupt habits; it can never be made to prove that one true Christian will fall away and perish. It will also prove that we should rely on no mere external reformation, no outward cleansing, as certain evidence of piety. Thousands who have been externally reformed have ultimately shown that they had no religion, and there is nothing in mere outward reformation that can suit us for heaven. God looks upon the heart; and it is only the religion that has its seat there, that can secure our final salvation.”



Albert Barnes: Heb 10:26 “For if we sin willfully,....]” “Which is not to be understood of a single act of sin, but rather of a course of sinning; nor of sins of infirmity through temptation, or even of grosser acts of sin, but of voluntary ones; and not of all voluntary ones, or in which the will is engaged and concerned, but of such which are done on set purpose, resolutely and obstinately; and not of immoral practices, but of corrupt principles, and acting according to them; it intends a total apostasy from the truth, against light and evidence, joined with obstinacy.



“After that we have received the knowledge of the truth;” “Either of Jesus Christ, or of the Scriptures, or of the Gospel, or of some particular doctrine, especially the principal one, salvation by Christ; of which there may be a notional knowledge, when there is no experimental knowledge; and which is received not into the heart, but into the head: and whereas the apostle speaks in the first person plural, we, this is used not so much with regard to himself, but others; that so what he delivered might come with greater weight upon them, and be more readily received by them; when they observed he entertained no hard thoughts or jealousies of them, which would greatly distress the minds of those that were truly gracious. Moreover, the apostles use this way of speaking, when they do not design themselves at all, but others, under the same visible profession of religion, and who belonged to the same community of believers; see 1 Peter 4:3 compared with Acts 22:3. Besides, these words are only hypothetical, and do not prove that true believers could, or should, or do sin in this manner: to which may be added, that true believers are manifestly distinguished from these persons, Hebrews 10:38.”



Albert Barnes - Verse 39. “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition,....”. There is a drawing back which is not unto perdition; persons may be attended with much unbelief, may be very cold and indifferent to Gospel ordinances, may fall into great sins, and may greatly backslide, and yet be recovered, as David, Peter, and others: and there is a drawing back to perdition; when Christ is rejected as the alone Saviour; when he is not held to as the head; when false doctrines and damnable heresies are given into; and when men draw back, and never return, nor are they, nor can they be returned, and their apostasy is total, and final: but true believers do not, and cannot draw back in this sense; because they are held fast in the arms, and with the cords of everlasting love, are chosen of God unto salvation, are given unto Christ, and secured in him; they are redeemed and purchased by him; they are united to him, and built upon him; they are interested in his prayers and preparations, and are his jewels, and his portion; they are regenerated, sanctified, inhabited, and sealed by the Spirit of God, and have the promises and power of God, on their side.”
The Apostle John says that those who "went from us, were never with us from the start". What this means is that one who is truly born again of the Spirit of God through faith in Christ will never depart from Christ, because he has become a new creature in Christ with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Not everyone who puts on the Christian badge, professes Christianity, and joins a church, is truly born again of the Spirit of God.. Saying the sinners' prayer has sent more people to hell because they have walked forward in a church or at a crusade, said the prayer and then depended on it without going on to make their election sure. They have depended on the prayer and then carried on as before without any changes. True conversion requires seeking God for a genuine change of heart, which can only come through a work of the Holy Spirit in them.
 

Netchaplain

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True conversion requires seeking God for a genuine change of heart, which can only come through a work of the Holy Spirit in them.
True and Amen PC! If one is a genuine Christian it will eventually manifest itself (Mat 12:33). It's been wisely said that, "everyone that should be saved will be saved", according to God's omniscient foreknowledge! This answers to the wonder that God doesn't give eternal life to those He knows are not genuine.
 
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Rudometkin

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Christians: "Sin leads to condemnation for the believer!"

GOD: "Where sin abounds, Grace abounds." Romans 5:20
 

Netchaplain

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Christians: "Sin leads to condemnation for the believer!"

GOD: "Where sin abounds, Grace abounds." Romans 5:20
Hi R, and thanks for the reply! Yes, if one thinks a believer would want to live in sin; but God keeps all believers from evil (2Th 3:3), i.e. all they will ever want from now on is to "please" Him (Phl 2:13). It's comforting to know that Christ's Blood removes "unwilful sins" (Heb 10:26).
 
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JLB

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God keeps all believers from evil

What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector
. Matthew 18:12-17


Look at the steps Jesus teaches us, to redeem one of His sheep who is lost.


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.


But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.


But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector
.


In the end, if the brother who sinned, doesn’t want to listen to the brother, then two brothers, then the church, he is to be considered as lost; like a heathen or tax collector.



So a brother in Christ, one of His sheep, can indeed become lost is they choose to.
 

Rudometkin

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What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector
. Matthew 18:12-17


Look at the steps Jesus teaches us, to redeem one of His sheep who is lost.


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.


But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.


But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector
.


In the end, if the brother who sinned, doesn’t want to listen to the brother, then two brothers, then the church, he is to be considered as lost; like a heathen or tax collector.



So a brother in Christ, one of His sheep, can indeed become lost is they choose to.
Let him be to you.

Jesus also said no man can be plucked from His hand.
 

JLB

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Let him be to you.

Jesus also said no man can be plucked from His hand.

‘Refusing to repent and be forgiven and cleansed of sin, is not being plucked from His hand, it’s being stubborn and rebellious.
 
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Netchaplain

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Matthew 18:12-17
Look at the steps Jesus teaches us, to redeem one of His sheep who is lost.
Hi J, and always appreciate your replies and comments! Jhn 18:9 "“Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.” I's been wisely said, "all that should be saved will be saved." "lost none" of whom God gave the Lord Jesus. If you weren't given, you weren't saved, because only those who were given are saved. They were given from eternity past, because God knew all who will be saved. The crux point is "lost none!"
But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

In the end, if the brother who sinned, doesn’t want to listen to the brother, then two brothers, then the church, he is to be considered as lost; like a heathen or tax collector.

So a brother in Christ, one of His sheep, can indeed become lost is they choose to.
I can't find any Scriptures that relates heathen or tax collectors as sinners or considered lost; they are just outside of the church.

"The offending person in Matthew 18:17 is typically understood to be a Christian who has sinned against another believer. If they refuse to repent after being confronted, they may be treated as an outsider to the church community. -The Gospel Coalition

"The offending one" in Matthew 18:17 is understood to be a fellow Christian or "brother/sister" within the church, as the entire passage (Matthew 18:15-17) describes a process for resolving conflict and sin within the Christian community, with the goal of restoration (fellowship), but treating the unrepentant as "outsiders" (Gentiles/tax collectors) if they persist in refusing to listen to the church. -Google AI

The offender is just considered to be wrong. Besides, those who do not forgive will not be forgiven, which is the lifestyle of a sinner anyway.
 

JLB

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I can't find any Scriptures that relates heathen or tax collectors as sinners or considered lost; they are just outside of the church.

‘Yes heathens and tax collectors refer to those who are not saved, and in the case of Jesus’s teaching, these brothers in Christ are no longer saved.


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’

And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.

But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector
.
Matthew 18:15-17
 

Netchaplain

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‘Yes heathens and tax collectors refer to those who are not saved, and in the case of Jesus’s teaching, these brothers in Christ are no longer saved.
I'm going to stick to what I have shared. Thanks for the replies!
 

Davy

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True and Amen PC! If one is a genuine Christian it will eventually manifest itself (Mat 12:33). It's been wisely said that, "everyone that should be saved will be saved", according to God's omniscient foreknowledge! This answers to the wonder that God doesn't give eternal life to those He knows are not genuine.

You got 'on the Scripture point' (falling away by a true believer) at the start, but then you start infusing men's doctrines into this topic. We are not to try and hide God's Truth in His Word just because it might hurt the feelings of those who do not yet understand. The Truth has never been that popular, and we should not try to smooth it over just because some are offended at the Truth.

God 'chooses' to not know who will fall away and who won't. It's a little thing He created called 'free will'.

Free will is involved for believers that are not chosen because love to God is not authentic if one is forced... to love Him. This is one of the main problems with man's doctrines of Calvinism. It believes God has already chosen all who will receive His Salvation. He has not. He only has an elect that He already owns, but all other believers still have free will to remain in Christ, or not.

Thus believers who are 'called' only are indeed true believers on Jesus Christ, and do intend to be saved by their Faith. It's not simply about, "well inside their nature, their becoming apostate shows their belief wasn't authentic." That idea is a doctrine of men because of their not yet understanding how God could allow those to fall away.


What Causes Apostasy of True Believers At the End:

When the coming final Antichrist/false-Messiah shows up in Jerusalem for the end of this world, sitting in a new stone temple there and proclaiming himself as God and over all that is called God or that is worshiped, many brethren will be told and believe that is our Lord Jesus Christ having come. It won't be. That first coming supernatural Messiah will be a FAKE Christ. That was Lord Jesus' subject in the Matthew 24:23-26 verses, and also by Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and 2 Corinthians 11.

That event of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 has not... happened yet today. A lot of Churches are pushing men's doctrines suggesting it's been happening with lower Church attendance, converting to other religions, etc., but that is not what Paul showed will cause that falling away. Paul linked that falling away with that coming "man of sin" who will play Christ in Jerusalem at the end of this world, deceiving the whole world, except Christ's already owned elect (Revelation 13:4-8).

Those apostates will not fall away because of some inner nature idea in their souls. They will fall away because they will wrongly believe that FAKE Christ truly is Lord Jesus. The main reason that will happen to them is because of who they LISTENED TO. This is what Apostle Paul was explaining in the 2 Corinthians 11 Scripture, about those false apostles who preach "another Jesus" (KJV). They are not prepared to reject that coming "man of sin" who will play our Lord Jesus Christ at the end. They don't even know about Christ's and His Apostle's warning about a false-Messiah that comes first, prior to Lord Jesus' coming.
 

Davy

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The additional matter on this topic is 'accountability'. Men's doctrines simply refer to the idea of accountability to mean when someone is old enough for their belief on Jesus Christ to be Faith on Christ in their adulthood.

But the idea of 'accountability' to God is about 'knowing', beyond all doubt, and being without excuse, with believing or not believing on Jesus Christ and God's Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ. This is a MAJOR POINT in that Hebrews 6 Scripture...

Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for
those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.
KJV


See that Scripture in 'red' above about the apostate who later falls away and rejects those spiritual gifts from TRUE BELIEF on The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit?? How then, can anyone try to claim, those were not true believers on Christ from the start??

If you, being a believer on Jesus Christ and His Salvation, and have 'experienced' the gifts of The Holy Spirit and of the powers of the world to come, that means you are... a true believer, and not just some maybe I'll believe and maybe I won't wishy-washy Christian. That FACT of Hebrews 6 about those who fall away demands that one looks deeper at the matter with just what... can cause that kind of falling away from 'accountability'. And once you have experienced those gifts and powers of the world to come, it means you are without excuse IF you fall away.

That brings us to the subject of 'spiritual blindness', like the "spirit of slumber" Apostle Paul spoke of in the Romans 11 Chapter. That spiritual blindness was first spoken of upon many in Israel in Isaiah 29. It is about God's accountability factor.

Paul showed in Romans 11 that God has spiritually blinded many of Paul's brethren the Jews away from The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Can those be held 'accountable' for their disbelief since God put that blindness upon them? No, they are not 'accountable' for their disbelief, not yet. When Jesus returns, then the Truth will be revealed to them, and then... they WILL be 'accountable' for their belief for, or against.

But these apostates here in Hebrews 6 which Paul points to, are already... accountable for their belief, simply because of having already experienced the gifts of The Spirit and powers of the world to come. Thus these are without excuse IF they fall away.

Many brethren believers on Jesus Christ will fall away to the coming false-Messiah, because of spiritual blindness having been put upon their minds. That is God's business to ask why, and when He will remove their blindness so that they may be held accountable for their belief.
 

Netchaplain

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Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for
those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.
KJV
I'm still researching these verses (for a long time) for the best understanding.
 

Davy

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I'm still researching these verses (for a long time) for the best understanding.

And you will keep struggling for the correct interpretation as long you listen to men's popular traditions on it. I know it is difficult to admit that a 'true' believer on Lord Jesus Christ can fall away and be held accountable for it, and thus not... saved. When Lord Jesus said to just believe on Him and you'll be saved, that is received in the absolutist sense, even though He did not mention there about the concept of falling away. That still does not mean certain ones cannot fall away.

Where the real difficulty most have with this, is how can a true believer be saved after 'unintentionally' falling away to worship the coming pseudo-Christ thinking he is Lord Jesus? Many brethren that God has 'blinded', just like how He has spiritually blinded many unbelieving Jews, has happened within Christ's Church also.

And when God is Who puts that "spirit of slumber" upon a believer on Jesus Christ, they can fall away to the false-Messiah that comes first, unintentionally.

This is about the concept that Jesus said of how that many are 'called', but few are chosen. His chosen very elect cannot fall away, ever, because He already owns them, and can intervene with them during this world. But those 'called' only, they must still be tested, and He will only intervene with them according to their Faith and their asking. Why God set this present 2nd world earth age up like this goes much deeper into matters written in His Word that are things hard to understand, like what Peter said about Paul's Epistles.
 

Davy

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This doesn't make enough sense for me.

Then you are a Calvinist??

You should... recognize the difference in Bible Scripture between Christ's elect whom He divinely intervened with, compared with those believers who believed by the preaching of His Apostles. Lord Jesus made this distinction between those two groups of His servants in His prayer of John 17...


This first part from verse 16 thru 19 Jesus is speaking about His very elect Apostles. The idea of being 'sent' is where the idea of the Greek word apostello (apostle) comes from.

John 17:16-21
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


This next verse, Jesus introduces a 2nd group of believers, those who would believe on Him by the preaching of His Apostles...

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but
for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;

Then Lord Jesus prays that both... groups of believers may be one in Him and in The Father...

21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
KJV



And the examples in the written Bible Scripture between those two groups should be obvious, as not all believers are 'chosen' like Jesus said (Matt.20:16). Apostle Paul was one of the greatest examples of a chosen sent one, an apostle. Jesus struck Paul blind when Paul was on his way to Damascus to hunt down Christians and bring them in chains to Jerusalem for trial by the Jews. That was divine intervention by Lord Jesus.

Yet Lord Jesus does not do that divine intervention for all believers. Yet Jesus even showed in Matthew 24:24 that it is impossible for His "very elect" to be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ. That is another pointer about His 'chosen' sent ones whom He already owns, the first group of John 17. They cannot fall away, ever.

Yet those called only can... still fall away, IF they allow themselves to be deceived. Jesus still allows these called to be tested by Satan. Otherwise, there would not be so many warnings against falling away mentioned by Lord Jesus and His Apostles in The New Testament Scriptures. And to deny the existence of that part of God's Word would be omitting a good portion of The New Testament Scriptures.
 
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