- Jul 11, 2015
- 8,494
- 1,698
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
Amil interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12 vs Genesis 9:15
- Thread starter Davidpt
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Christ's Spirit cannot dwell permanently in earthen bodies that die. Jesus is the first-fruit of the resurrection / regeneration. IN HIM all things are already new but down here the rest will follow when He returns. God quickened the body of Christ by the Spirit, and by the Spirit He rose again from the dead bodily. When He returns He will return bodily and HE HIMSELF will make all things new.
By and large yourself and those who agree with you are traveling in the opposite direction to what Christ Himself understands and reveals about the NEW heavens and NEW earth.
Last edited:
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, you have a religious denominational understanding of How Christ by His Holy Spirit dwells within us.
IF you ARE born again, surely you can attest to this following truth:
John 11
[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?
All born again Christians ARE already a NEW creature, by the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit!!
See also 1 John 5:13.
But if you can't attest to John 11:26, then you have serious problems with your relationship with the Lord.
Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Last edited:
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
We can if you want. But, I know you will likely site secular sources who are against God and the Bible, so I can't take that seriously.
We should consider both. But, the real problem here is that you are almost completely lacking in spiritual discernment and you believe a lot of things that are false because you rely entirely on your own fallible human wisdom for understanding.
LOL. You crack me up. There is physical evidence of a global flood and the Bible clearly teaches a global flood. You just ignore it because you trust secular scientists over the Bible and over Christians who are scientists. You obviously have a low view of the Bible because you are not willing to just accept what it teaches.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That's because Revelation 19:15-21 is symbolic and 2 Peter 3:10-12 is not. Do you think Jesus will literally be coming from heaven on a white horse and literally slaying people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, you have your own religious denominational understanding of How Christ by His Holy Spirit dwells within us. You adhere to the same denominational interpretation of John 11:23-26 that almost all denominations adhere to.
* The One God who exists from eternity unto eternity is a Spirit (John 4:24) and the source of all existence, and all life [zoe]. The life [zoe] that is in Him is eternal life [zoe aionios].
* God alone has/possesses life [zoe] in Himself (John 1:4; John 5:26).
In the New Testament eternal life is always called "zoe aionios (life eternal) -
- The Greek texts of the New Testament never call eternal life "zao aionios" (alive forever).
The following three biblical verses tell us about who alone possesses life [zoe] in Himself, who gives it, and who receives it, and how it is received:
1. John 1:4: "In Him (the Word of God) was life [zoe] and the life [zoe] the light of men."
2. John 5:26: "For as the Father hath life[zoe] in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life [zoe] in himself."
3. 1 John 5:11: "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life [zoe aionios], and this life [zoe] is in his Son."
Only the Son has (possesses) life [zoe] in Himself. We are given life [zoe] in the Son.
Zoe is the word the Greek uses for life.
Zao is the word it uses for living / being alive. To be alive [zao] forever is to be immortal. The source of living | being alive [zao] is life [zoe]:
Greek Septuagint translation of Genesis 2:7: καὶ ἔπλασεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον χοῦν ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐνεφύσησεν εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ πνοὴν ζωῆς καὶ ἐγένετο ὁ ἄνθρωπος εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν.
The words in English: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life [zoe]; and man became a living [zao] soul [psuche]." *
* The Hebrew word can also be translated as living being - as in the NETfree translation.
Zao (The Greek word used for “living” in Genesis 2:7 in the Septuagint is ζῶσαν (zōsan), which is derived from the root verb ζάω [zaō] ) *
* zaō means to live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead) (from Thayer's Greek Lexicon).
(1) Eternal life [zoe] is IN THE LAST ADAM (1 John 5:11) ; and
(2) Immortality - being alive [zao] forever
- is THROUGH THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF THE LAST ADAM
- because He is the Word of God in whom is life [zoe] (John 1:4),
who became flesh (John 1:14), lived [zao], and
died for our sins, and
rose again bodily from the dead, and
as the Father has life [zoe] in Himself,
so He has given to the Son to have life [zoe] in Himself (John 5:26),
and He is THE resurrection of the body from the dead [o' anastasis] AND the life [zoe] (John 11:25), who alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16), so that whoever believes in Him will live [zao] (following the resurrection from the dead), though He die (John 11:25).
Jesus to Martha: (whose brother had just died): "Your brother shall rise again".
Martha: "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection [anastasis] at the last day."
Jesus: "I am the Resurrection [anastasis] and the ZOE! (the life).
He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live (ZAO: he shall be alive)."
(The resurrection of the dead renders the one who died alive again):
"And whoever is ZAO (alive) and believes in Me shall never die." (shall be immortal) (John 11:23-26).
Below is an example of the conflation of zoe (life) with zao (to be alive | living) in the doctrine taught by your denominational misinterpretation of scripture, by your replacing of the word zao (alive in the body) with the word zoe (spiritual life):
25 ".. He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he
The above eisegesis (putting into the text a meaning that is not there) - which your own particular denominational understanding of scripture does, along with almost all other denominations' understanding of scripture - completely takes away the following from the context:
Jesus to Martha: (whose brother had just died): "Your brother shall rise again".
Martha: "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection [anastasis] at the last day."
Jesus: "I am the Resurrection [anastasis] and the ZOE! (the life). He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live (ZAO: he shall be alive)."
Compare the above with:
"If Christ's Spirit is in you,
(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness. (Romans 8:10)
(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised [egeiro] Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised [egeiro] Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:11).
The result of Christ's Spirit in a human being quickening the dead body (making it alive again) is the resurrection of the body from the dead when Christ returns.
-- "When Christ, who is our life [zōḗ], shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." (Colossians 3:4) --
* Eternal Life (zōē aiōnios) is given * in Christ * to fallen human beings - the key words * in Christ * that appear in the text are ignored by your own personal denominational doctrine and understanding of what it means to have life [zoe] and what it means to be alive [zao].
* In the New Testament eternal life is always called "zoe aionios (life eternal). The Greek texts of the New Testament never call eternal life "zao aionios" (alive forever).
1. ζωή (zōē) is a noun, and refers to life as God has (and possesses) it, and gives it.
-- The source of all life [zoe] is God --
* Divine, spiritual, and eternal life
* Life that comes from God and is sustained by Him *
* Zoe can refer to eternal life (which God gives us in Christ), or to the life-time of the creature, as it does in certain verses, for example:
James 4:14
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life [zōḗ] (your life-time)? It is even a vapour, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away.
2. ζάω (zaō) - to live | to be alive (verb)
Meaning
Zaō simply means to live, to be alive, or to continue living. To be alive forever is to be immortal - the source of which is "zoe aionios (life eternal).
Range of use
* Physical existence (being alive)
* Manner of life (“how one lives”)
* Vitality (living toward God)
Examples
* Romans 14:8: “If we live (zaō), we live to the Lord.”
* Galatians 2:20: “It is no longer I who live (zaō), but Christ who lives in me.”
* Luke 20:38: “For all live (zaō) to Him.”
In short, zaō = the act or state of living | of being alive, i.e to be actively living | alive.
Throughout the New Testament,
Zoe (noun) pertains to life - the origin and only source of which is God who alone possesses life in Himself, and has given to the Son Jesus alone to have in Himself.
Zao (verb) - whenever it is used in reference to the creature - pertains to living | being alive - the creature.
zoe aionois: eternal life.
zao: to live | to be alive. *
* By implication in certain verses, zao also alludes to the source of living | being alive - which is life itself [zoe], which is of God, is in the Word of God, and given by God through the Word (hence, subsequent to the fall of Adam, now in Christ) to the descendants of created humans (the creature), for example in Acts 17:28:
Compare:
John 1:4
"In Him (the Word of God) is life [zoe] and the life [zoe] is the light of men." *
with:
Acts 17:28
For in him we live [zao], and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
Compare also for example John 6:63 with Matthew 4:4:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth (makes alive [zao] what was dead); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life [zoe].
"It is written, Man shall not live [zao] by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Eternal life [zoe] is in the Word of God - John 1:4).
The living [zao] GOD, who has and possesses life everlasting [zoe aionios] in Himself, is the GOD of all living [zao] creatures, which were created by Him.
You adhere to the same denominational interpretation of John 11:23-26 that almost all denominations adhere to.
Alive
god-of-the-living.blogspot.com
Last edited:
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Since you wrote a book, I will have to reply in two posts.Unfortunately, you have your own religious denominational understanding of How Christ by His Holy Spirit dwells within us. You adhere to the same denominational interpretation of John 11:23-26 that almost all denominations adhere to.
* The One God who exists from eternity unto eternity is a Spirit (John 4:24) and the source of all existence, and all life [zoe]. The life [zoe] that is in Him is eternal life [zoe aionios].
* God alone has/possesses life [zoe] in Himself (John 1:4; John 5:26).
In the New Testament eternal life is always called "zoe aionios (life eternal) -
- The Greek texts of the New Testament never call eternal life "zao aionios" (alive forever).
The following three biblical verses tell us about who alone possesses life [zoe] in Himself, who gives it, and who receives it, and how it is received:
1. John 1:4: "In Him (the Word of God) was life [zoe] and the life [zoe] the light of men."
2. John 5:26: "For as the Father hath life[zoe] in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life [zoe] in himself."
3. 1 John 5:11: "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life [zoe aionios], and this life [zoe] is in his Son."
Only the Son has (possesses) life [zoe] in Himself. We are given life [zoe] in the Son.
Zoe is the word the Greek uses for life.
Zao is the word it uses for living / being alive. To be alive [zao] forever is to be immortal. The source of living | being alive [zao] is life [zoe]:
Greek Septuagint translation of Genesis 2:7: καὶ ἔπλασεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον χοῦν ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐνεφύσησεν εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ πνοὴν ζωῆς καὶ ἐγένετο ὁ ἄνθρωπος εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν.
The words in English: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life [zoe]; and man became a living [zao] soul [psuche]." *
* The Hebrew word can also be translated as living being - as in the NETfree translation.
Zao (The Greek word used for “living” in Genesis 2:7 in the Septuagint is ζῶσαν (zōsan), which is derived from the root verb ζάω [zaō] ) *
* zaō means to live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead) (from Thayer's Greek Lexicon).
(1) Eternal life [zoe] is IN THE LAST ADAM (1 John 5:11) ; and
(2) Immortality - being alive [zao] forever
- is THROUGH THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF THE LAST ADAM
- because He is the Word of God in whom is life [zoe] (John 1:4),
who became flesh (John 1:14), lived [zao], and
died for our sins, and
rose again bodily from the dead, and
as the Father has life [zoe] in Himself,
so He has given to the Son to have life [zoe] in Himself (John 5:26),
and He is THE resurrection of the body from the dead [o' anastasis] AND the life [zoe] (John 11:25), who alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16), so that whoever believes in Him will live [zao] (following the resurrection from the dead), though He die (John 11:25).
Jesus to Martha: (whose brother had just died): "Your brother shall rise again".
Martha: "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection [anastasis] at the last day."
Jesus: "I am the Resurrection [anastasis] and the ZOE! (the life).
He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live (ZAO: he shall be alive)."
(The resurrection of the dead renders the one who died alive again):
"And whoever is ZAO (alive) and believes in Me shall never die." (shall be immortal) (John 11:23-26).
Below is an example of the conflation of zoe (life) with zao (to be alive | living) in the doctrine taught by your denominational misinterpretation of scripture, by your replacing of the word zao (alive in the body) with the word zoe (spiritual life):
25 ".. He who believes in Me, though he die, yet heshall be spiritually alive. 26 And whoever isspiritually aliveand believes in Me shall bespiritually aliveforever and ever. Do you believe this?"
The above eisegesis (putting into the text a meaning that is not there) - which your own particular denominational understanding of scripture does, along with almost all other denominations' understanding of scripture - completely takes away the following from the context:
Jesus to Martha: (whose brother had just died): "Your brother shall rise again".
Martha: "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection [anastasis] at the last day."
Jesus: "I am the Resurrection [anastasis] and the ZOE! (the life). He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live (ZAO: he shall be alive)."
Compare the above with:
"If Christ's Spirit is in you,
(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness. (Romans 8:10)
(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised [egeiro] Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised [egeiro] Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:11).
The result of Christ's Spirit in a human being quickening the dead body (making it alive again) is the resurrection of the body from the dead when Christ returns.
-- "When Christ, who is our life [zōḗ], shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." (Colossians 3:4) --
* Eternal Life (zōē aiōnios) is given * in Christ * to fallen human beings - the key words * in Christ * that appear in the text are ignored by your own personal denominational doctrine and understanding of what it means to have life [zoe] and what it means to be alive [zao].
* In the New Testament eternal life is always called "zoe aionios (life eternal). The Greek texts of the New Testament never call eternal life "zao aionios" (alive forever).
1. ζωή (zōē) is a noun, and refers to life as God has (and possesses) it, and gives it.
-- The source of all life [zoe] is God --
* Divine, spiritual, and eternal life
* Life that comes from God and is sustained by Him *
* Zoe can refer to eternal life (which God gives us in Christ), or to the life-time of the creature, as it does in certain verses, for example:
James 4:14
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life [zōḗ] (your life-time)? It is even a vapour, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away.
2. ζάω (zaō) - to live | to be alive (verb)
Meaning
Zaō simply means to live, to be alive, or to continue living. To be alive forever is to be immortal - the source of which is "zoe aionios (life eternal).
Range of use
* Physical existence (being alive)
* Manner of life (“how one lives”)
* Vitality (living toward God)
Examples
* Romans 14:8: “If we live (zaō), we live to the Lord.”
* Galatians 2:20: “It is no longer I who live (zaō), but Christ who lives in me.”
* Luke 20:38: “For all live (zaō) to Him.”
In short, zaō = the act or state of living | of being alive, i.e to be actively living | alive.
Throughout the New Testament,
Zoe (noun) pertains to life - the origin and only source of which is God who alone possesses life in Himself, and has given to the Son Jesus alone to have in Himself.
Zao (verb) - whenever it is used in reference to the creature - pertains to living | being alive - the creature.
zoe aionois: eternal life.
zao: to live | to be alive. *
* By implication in certain verses, zao also alludes to the source of living | being alive - which is life itself [zoe], which is of God, is in the Word of God, and given by God through the Word (hence, subsequent to the fall of Adam, now in Christ) to the descendants of created humans (the creature), for example in Acts 17:28:
Compare:
John 1:4
"In Him (the Word of God) is life [zoe] and the life [zoe] is the light of men." *
with:
Acts 17:28
For in him we live [zao], and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
Compare also for example John 6:63 with Matthew 4:4:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth (makes alive [zao] what was dead); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life [zoe].
"It is written, Man shall not live [zao] by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Eternal life [zoe] is in the Word of God - John 1:4).
The living [zao] GOD, who has and possesses life everlasting [zoe aionios] in Himself, is the GOD of all living [zao] creatures, which were created by Him.
You adhere to the same denominational interpretation of John 11:23-26 that almost all denominations adhere to.
Alive
PART #1
For my understanding, you did not have to go to such a great length to describe the words of the Lord's written words to me.
I AGREE 100%.
However, for HOW we discern and understand His Truth, THAT IS the issue at hand.
2B Cont'd
Earburner
Well-Known Member
PART #2
Let it be known to all, that the written biblical words are manifested in the literal, historical, prophetical, spiritual and most of all they are ETERNAL.
Unfortunately, most believers barely contemplate the spiritual depth of their understanding by the Lord's Holy Spirit.
Your long winded explanation is a prime example of how most study the Bible.
Yes, to utilize the conscious mind of our "natural man" to read words is absolutely necessary, but it is NOT at all capable for discerning the Lord's Truth through HIS words.
Therefore the analyzing and the "wringing of the hands" over biblical words, syllables and grammar is nothing but learning by the wisdom of men, and shall fall short of His spiritual truth.
Most all denominational theologians, bishops, reverends and pastors dare not to venture beyond their own indoctrination. The result of that is, most all of the literal churches are feeding their flocks only by that which is literal and historical.
So then, for all that you wrote, I shall sum it up by you reviewing the words/scriptures that I previously posted to you in #203.
And, to bring this to a close, I suggest that you thoroughly read and study by the Holy Spirit (the mind of Christ), and not by the wisdom of men, the whole of KJV 1Cor. ch. 2.
However, since you seem to be "hot and heavy" into the ways of "the wisdom of men", I suggest that you "compare" the word "mansion" with the word "abode". Please see John 14:2, 23, and if you can, please express the paramount value of what the Holy Spirit is saying in regards to what/who exactly the mansions are.
Let it be known to all, that the written biblical words are manifested in the literal, historical, prophetical, spiritual and most of all they are ETERNAL.
Unfortunately, most believers barely contemplate the spiritual depth of their understanding by the Lord's Holy Spirit.
Your long winded explanation is a prime example of how most study the Bible.
Yes, to utilize the conscious mind of our "natural man" to read words is absolutely necessary, but it is NOT at all capable for discerning the Lord's Truth through HIS words.
Therefore the analyzing and the "wringing of the hands" over biblical words, syllables and grammar is nothing but learning by the wisdom of men, and shall fall short of His spiritual truth.
Most all denominational theologians, bishops, reverends and pastors dare not to venture beyond their own indoctrination. The result of that is, most all of the literal churches are feeding their flocks only by that which is literal and historical.
So then, for all that you wrote, I shall sum it up by you reviewing the words/scriptures that I previously posted to you in #203.
And, to bring this to a close, I suggest that you thoroughly read and study by the Holy Spirit (the mind of Christ), and not by the wisdom of men, the whole of KJV 1Cor. ch. 2.
However, since you seem to be "hot and heavy" into the ways of "the wisdom of men", I suggest that you "compare" the word "mansion" with the word "abode". Please see John 14:2, 23, and if you can, please express the paramount value of what the Holy Spirit is saying in regards to what/who exactly the mansions are.
Last edited:
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Instead of creating a red herring by making assertions in your self-exaltation that imply that your human wisdom and 'understanding' is above that of any other human who can see your error - except maybe Christ Himself - and cannot possibly come from the natural man in your case (but not anyone else's), explain what any of the above has to do with the passage you brought up, which was
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life [zoe]: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live [zao - shall be alive]:
26 And whosoever liveth [zao] and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11).
Stick to the subject you brought up please.
In your own OPINION - (not in your OPINION of yourself and of your own natural human wisdom which you claim you get from God),
but in your OPINION why is it that the inspired Word of God penned by the apostle John has Jesus describing Himself as the resurrection of the dead and the life [zoe], saying that whoever believes in Him shall live| be alive [zao] though they die bodily - in the context of Jesus telling Martha that her brother who had just died, will rise again?
No one's interested in your self opinions of your own "profound" insight into how the interpretations of those who disagree with your own are in disagreement because THEY have "natural human wisdom" which is not possibly of the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit of His own Word, while YOU are superior.
So if you cannot answer or refuse to answer the questions because you cannot answer them, it will bring your obvious inability to do so to light, and that will bring this topic to its conclusion.
Last edited:
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Since you seem to be "hot and heavy" into the ways of "the wisdom of men" while in your own self-exaltation regarding the 'superiority' of your 'wisdom' above all those who see your error, I suggest you explain why - in your OPINION the context of John 14:1-2 is NOT what Jesus had been talking about already in John 13:33:
"Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
John 14:
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
-- -- Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father after He ascended into heaven - and after He had already prepared a place for the ones who believe in Him at the moment He said, "It is finished" (John 19:30), when He bowed His head and gave up His Spirit --
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Jesus had already told them that wither He goes, they cannot come.
Now He tells them that they nevertheless know where He is going, and the way to where He is going
- and because it was before He had died, risen again, AND BEFORE THE HOLY SPIRIT HAD COME TO THE HOUSE OF GOD, His disciples were still confused:
Explain why, in your "hot and heavy" human wisdom and self-exaltation, you believe the above and what is below is NOT the case:
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Compare:
(a) As I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
(b) Whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
(c) Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
But you cannot hear the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, or understand them, because in your own self-exaltation you believe and imply that your natural human wisdom is "of the Holy Spirit". So you fail to see that further on down - and still in the same context of speaking to His disciples about His departure - Jesus tells those who believe in Him and belong to Him:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Since in your own "hot and heavy" self-exaltation you are hard of hearing the Word of God and the Holy Spirit's enlightenment of His words, compare AGAIN:
John 14:
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions [G3438 mone]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
G3438: mone. from 3306; a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place):--abode, mansion.
G3306: meno: a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live [zao], ye shall live [zao] also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 13
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 14
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [G3438 mone] with him.
G3438: mone. from 3306; a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place):--abode, mansion.
G3306: meno: a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
What Jesus was telling them was that THEY were to become His Father's house - because HE was going to be sending the Holy Spirit down on God's house,
- and it happened on the Day of Pentecost - NOT in 70 A.D as your Preterist false doctrine asserts -
- and before you misinterpreted His words and claimed "Holy Spirit-inspired inspiration" for your misapplying and corrupting of Jesus' speech, implying that whoever sees your error is - unlike you in your self exaltation - inspired by their own "natural human" wisdom -
(i.e NOT loving your brethren the way Christ COMMANDED YOU TO - esteeming yourself "superior" to all who see your error)
what Jesus had already said was:
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
As I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Jesus is talking about the Temple (house) of God which Christ inhabits, by His Spirit:
As Paul tells those who BELIEVE Jesus and His words: each one who has the Spirit of Christ DWELLING IN HIM is the Temple (house) of God, and Peter tells us that together we are the living stones who form the one Temple of God (1 Peter 2:5).
Indeed there are many mansions in the house of God - THERE IS EVEN A ROOM FOR YOU, THOUGH YOU EXALT YOURSELF -
and in His Revelation Jesus allowed His apostle John to see what will also be - in a fuller and COMPLETE sense following the BODILY return of Christ AND THE BODILY RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD IN CHRIST:
"And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God." (Revelation 21:3).
PS: I DO NOT CARE if you accuse me of "writing a book" - cherry-picking of scriptures, taking verses out of their context is what YOU evidently prefer to do - I do not do that. THE BIBLE IS A BOOK, AND EACH BOOK OF THE BIBLE IS A BOOK, INSPIRED BY GOD, AND PENNED BY PROPHETS AND APOSTLES, AND HONEST HISTORIANS.
Last edited:
I was going to give a thorough response to you about why it’s hypocritical to argue why we should just believe the Bible and accept a global flood yet reject a 70AD coming because there’s not enough extra Biblical evidence for that. I was going to present the problem of people in the early church years, using scriptural arguments for a flat earth, until scientists proved that incorrect and how now people use scriptural arguments that agree with secular science. I was going to point out the many Christian scientists who believe in a local flood and the verses they use to show that. But …
I thought about it and I would say you are your own worst enemy, I think people who take an objective look at all the evidence and examine your responses will easily come to the conclusion that the flood was local. So keep on giving the responses in the same manner you do (personal attacks on integrity, intelligence, beliefs, and so on, without ever admitting there are other possibilities besides the ones you hold), it really helps make the case for the people you argue against.
Is not the second coming just like the lightning that comes out of the east, and shines unto the west, which is a local event? And how about Sodom and Gomorrah, that was a local event too.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You have nothing to refute the truth, so your words here are empty and meaningless.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
His second coming is not a local event. You are so blinded by preterism.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [a]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Yes, you do indeed make it obvious that though the Bible is a book, and each book of the Bible is a book, for your part you prefer to cherry-pick certain verses or short passages, taking them out of their context and forming doctrine around the eisegesis that results.
However, I DO NOT CARE what you choose to do with scripture in your belief that your natural human wisdom and understanding is wisdom given you of God and by the Holy Spirit while you take scripture out of context.
I do not do that. The Bible is a book, and each book of the Bible is a book - not written by you in your own natural human wisdom, but by those who penned scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
If only you were an example of someone who thoroughly reads and studies by the Holy Spirit (the mind of Christ) and not by the wisdom of men, your words could be taken as good advice. Unfortunately the fact that you seem to believe you are in a position to offer the advice even while you yourself adhere to false (AD 70 Preterist) doctrine, they are the words of someone wrapped in his own complacent self-exalted opinion that he alone does the very thing which he advises others to do, and that anyone who might see his error, DOES NOT.
I shake my head and leave your self-exaltation in the hands of my merciful Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, asking for His loving mercy and grace in the day your own "words of advice" embarrass you (because they will).
Last edited:
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I said your words will embarrass you at the time of Christ's return. I said nothing about your words condemning you. If your reading comprehension is that bad then I understand why you fail to understand the scriptures in so many respects. My mention of mercy and grace had to do with my wishing the love of Christ who understands all our human frailty - including yours - will be greater than your sense of embarrassment so that your embarrassment isn't as tough on you as it would be if Jesus were like you - the one who thinks in his hubris he can explain "what is wrong" with all those who can clearly see his doctrinal error - which you yourself are blinded to.
Last edited:
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
The second coming comes upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth. This is a one-off lightning strike...think super nova.
Very fitting as the Lord comes in great power and the Glory of his Father. What do you expect that to look like?
LK 21
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth. 36 But keep alert at all times [be attentive and ready], praying that you may have the strength and ability [to be found worthy and] to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man [at His coming].”
Yes, it is clearly said to occur locally lol.
The point is once lot left, no-one else survived, just like Noah's day.
That is why the Lord links them together.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
No, you still do not understand!!!
There will not be any embarrassment for anyone in Christ, because in the Day that Jesus returns in flaming fire, the former things will be passed away.
Rev. 21
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
You do ignore whatever scripture you choose to ignore and form your own non-biblical doctrine, don't you?
You commend yourself and your human wisdom as "the wisdom of God received by you through the Holy Spirit" in the same breath that you disparage the brother who disagrees with you as being guided only by his "natural human wisdom and understanding" - blind to the fact that in many cases, those who disagree with you are disagreeing with you because they are correct and you have misinterpreted the scriptures, and they can see your error.
Romans 14
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
Your (AD 70 Preterist) thinking has you puffed up in your own natural human wisdom, brother. That's why you judge your brother as inspired or guided only by his natural human wisdom but not by God the moment he disagrees with what in your hubris you believe you received from the Holy Spirit regarding scripture.
Your words will embarrass you when Christ returns, unless you admit your fault, and repent of it beforehand - because a great portion of scripture has been misinterpreted by you in order to make it comply with Preterist doctrine, which is false doctrine.
Last edited:
Then why didn’t Jesus say His coming would be like a bright shining star? That’s how He arrives when He is born, the star that the wise men followed.
If you have no issues speculating local lightning can be like a global super nova event then you should have no problems seeing how the flood can be a local event.
Right, and we’re not debating about who was left, only about whether it’s a local or global event.
Similar threads
