I'm asking where you find in Scripture that Jesus is a created angel? Jesus created all that was created, therefore He was not Himself created.
Do you believe Jesus and Michael refer to the same being?
Much love!
Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?
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Do you believe Jesus and Michael refer to the same being?
Much love!
Let's not forget that capitalizations in Scripture are the commentary of the translators. That wouldn't do to forget, or act as though it's not so.
Much love!
Wrangler
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Do you ever notice the words are always something short of "Person A is almighty God incarnate - while also 3 persons make up the person of almighty God, the F, S & HS, who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you don't believe it, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever?" The words suggest a mirror: Reflects. Manifests. The image of. Oher words suggest a container: Almighty God is IN Person A. Almighty God dwells in Person A. One plausible explanation for this use of language is because Person A is NOT almighty God incarnate.
- Do I believe George Washington is manifest in US quarters? Yes.
- Do I believe US quarters ARE George Washington. No.
Arguably more importantly, is the metaphysical importance of this conclusion. As a result of me concluding US quarter are NOT George Washington there is no loss of the honor due him, no diminishing his pre-eminence in America's founding, etc. There is no law stating one must take an oath that US quarters ARE George Washington in order to be a US citizen. The absence of such wording is telling.
This is not the case for Christ being a man - and only a man. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22 is most compelling, the guarantee of our own resurrection; "first fruits" mean like to follow. If Jesus is not a man - and only a man - then who is the first like us to guarantee our own resurrection?
Wrangler
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Agreed, in theory. In practice, I am Groot. I speak English. Do you think it is an arbitrary choice by translators to sometimes use capital-LORD and other times use lowercase-Lord? Or do you suppose there is good reason for the translation decision?
Wrangler
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Beebster
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Hi marks, I'm not trying to hijack your conversation but I saw this and wanted to comment.
I believe Christ was the first being God the Father created. From then on Christ and his Father created/are creating everything, including Christ. Christ is still being created.
I am not JW and I do not believe in a trinity.
I do believe Jesus Christ is God (not God the Father, but certainly our Father) and I believe he is Yahweh.
Peace.
You do not believe in the Trinity.
But you believe Jesus is God but not the Father.
Exactly what the Trinity teaches.
So, if you don't believe in the Trinity...
but you believe Jesus is God....
Are you aware that you've just stated that there are two Gods?
And yet there is only one God.
amigo de christo
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Always remember the creator Was not created but rather did the creating of all that is .
As i am sure you already know that . These people actually beleive GOD created JESUS .
God never created himself . HE simply spoke and it was created .
and now a word .
IN the beginning was THE WORD
and the WORD was GOD . Jesus aint some JW creation of micheal the ark angel or whatever else these people believe .
JESUS , THE WORD , WAS NOT CREATED , THE WORD CREATED all that was . but the WORD was not created
IT CREATED . enjoy that .
In theory but not in practice? Do you then build your theology on the translator's choice? Appeal to Authority?
Much love!
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Beebster
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amigo de christo
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Verily verily i type unto thee
The WORD was not created , THE WORD CREATED .
GOD SPOKE and said LET THERE BE LIGHT and THERE WAS LIGHT .
The word was not created , the WORD created . The very essence of the FATHER
G OD is SPIRIT and HE IS LIFE , HIS WORD IS SPIRIT and IS LIFE .
The word was not created , THE WORD CREATED ALL THAT WAS AND ALL THAT IS .
I hope that makes sense . cause i am quite worn out with folks
running around making void the DIETY OF CHRIST , WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD .
And not only was the WORD with GOD , The word was God . ITS HIS OWN ESSENCE .
There once was man who brought to his class a bucket filled with the very waters of the ocean itself .
He stood before His class and told them i have here in this bucket the ocean .
And they laughed him to scorn and said ALAS that is but a b ucket with the waters of the ocean
IT is not THE ocean , the ocean is far greater .
The man then said , WHAT If it showed you from whence this water came .
SO he took his class back to the ocean and poured the very waters of the ocean out of the bucket
and back into the ocean . The class was fooled by the bucket , as this people is fooled by the flesh suit
JESUS wore . BUT IT IS THE SAME OCEAN , same waters and all .
THE WORD simpl y TOOK On flesh . Same water was returned to the ocean from whence it came .
SAME with the SON . THE WORD was not created , THE WORD CREATED all things .
GOD CREATED ALL T HROUGH JESUS CHRIST . AND HE IS his own essence , HIS OWN SPIRIT
HIS OWN WORD . probably dont make sense . But i did try .
Here's what you said:
"I am not JW and I do not believe in a trinity.
I do believe Jesus Christ is God (not God the Father, but certainly our Father) and I believe he is Yahweh."
You said you do NOT believe in the Trinity.
Then
You said that you believe Jesus is God.
This means that there are two Gods.
amigo de christo
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Beebster
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Well, that may be what you think it means based on your definition of "God."
If I were to state that Yahweh is God and baal is God then I would agree with your statement.
God is a family. And God is one.
So, why do suggest that Yeshua is an angel at all? Are you suggesting he is? Can you provide this information in scripture?
Wrangler
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Well, it’s more like I tend to stay in my lane. There is one thread I started about the original language of Scripture. That’s how little interest I have in ancient, foreign languages.
I claim the Bible begins, In the beginning, God even though I know that’s not original language words. I abhor foreign language, generally. Forgive my preference for communicating in my native tongue.
I’m willing to dabble but will soon be headed for the door, leave the thread.
Perhaps I misunderstood you, that Jesus was created. Is that what you believe?
Much love!
Let me suggest we disconnect this subject, and then regroup if and when you may want to readjust and read my previous posts to you on this subject. I believe posts #89 thru 91 and #95 cover the contents of both of our inputs.
Thanks
That will be fine. I didn't really see anything that answered my question to you, though I see where you may not have been speaking of Jesus in terms of being God, rather, that you see Jesus as someone other than the OT "Angel of the LORD". Is that correct?
Though I still do wonder, do you believe Jesus to be God? A created being? Who do you say He is?
Much love!
No Beebser....what I stated is what you posted.
Let's try again....
You said that God Father is God.
You said that the Son is God.
BUT
You do NOT believe in the Trinity/Godhead.
So....
Pay attention:
You have just created two Gods.
If God is a family...please explain HOW.
How can God be a family AND be ONE.
I'm asking you to hone in on your belief system.
You're going to have to begin to understand and/or accept the Trinity
UNLESS you want to create two Gods.
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