Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

[Adventageous]

A hint of creedal language seems to be creeping in, Advent, this raises concern about your intentions. You have already twisted the story of Enoch and misrepresented the Lord’s work. Will you next misrepresent Jehovah God Himself?

Time will tell, no doubt.

The word "advent", in my usage, does not have anything to do with "credal language". As I have stated in several places in the forums, I am not a "credal" person. I do not adhere to any creeds (any, not the creed of Aquiliea, Apostles creed, Nicean creed, Athanasian creed, the material of Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas; 3rd Part, Question 52; Article 4, Reply To Objection 1, &c. as they all carry their individual errors which are contrary to scripture. No, I am not here at present to argue / defend that position. I am just stating my present postion to be clear).

The word "advent" simply means:

​

"... advent (n.) "important arrival," ... (in reference to the "coming" of Christ), which was in late Old English, from Latin adventus "a coming, approach, arrival," in Church Latin "the coming of the Savior," from past participle of advenire "arrive at, come to," from ad "to" (see ad-) + venire "to come" (from a suffixed form of PIE root *gwa- "to go, come"). Related: Adventual. ..." - Advent - Etymology, Origin & Meaning​

From another:

"... AD'VENT, noun [Latin adventus, from advenio, of ad and venio, to come. See Find.]​

​

A coming; appropriately the coming of our Savior ... with reference to the coming of Christ in the flesh, and his second coming to judge the world." - Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Advent​

In matters of the word "coming", one of its synonyms is "advent" - COMING Synonyms & Antonyms - 76 words | Thesaurus.com

In matters of the word "advent", one of its synonyms is "coming" - ADVENT Synonyms & Antonyms - 16 words | Thesaurus.com

According to Strong's Concordance, on the koine Greek word G3952, translated as "coming" in 1 Cor. 15:23 KJB) is:

"G3952​

παρουσία​

parousia​

par-oo-see'-ah​

From the present participle of G3918; a being near, that is, advent (often, return; specifically of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physical aspect: - coming, presence." - Strong's Greek: 3952. παρουσία (parousia) -- Coming, presence, arrival​

​

Thayer's Greek Lexicon says the same, "... the coming, arrival, advent ..." - Strong's Greek: 3952. παρουσία (parousia) -- Coming, presence, arrival​

Here are two books as early as 1493 & 1555 using the phrase "Second Advent" of Jesus -

​

1493 - "second advent" Jesus - Google Search​

​

1555 - "second advent" Jesus - Google Search​

​

The Latin Vulgate of Jerome, reads:

1Co 15:23 unusquisque autem in suo ordine primitiae Christus deinde hii qui sunt Christi in adventu eius​

Is using a Latin originating word incorrect? I would be careful with using "Calvary" (Luk. 23:33 KJB) then, since it too stems from the Latin calvaria "skull" - Calvary - Etymology, Origin & Meaning of the Name

I think both are just fine, as English language has many Latin root originating words.

Other texts, have related words:

1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.​

That word “revealed” - “apokalyptō” “ἀποκαλύπτω” has many other complimentary partners in the Scripture which all speak of the same events:

1 Cor. 15:32 KJB - But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

The English word “coming” in the Greek is “parousia” “παρουσία” and means “presence, the advent, the coming, the arrival, the future visible return of Jesus from Heaven to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the Kingdom of God” [Strong's Concordance] [See Mat. 24:37 and compare to Luk. 17:26,30].

The same word can be viewed in many other passages: [Mat. 24:3,27,37,39; 1 Cor. 16:17; 2 Cor. 7:6-7, 10:10; Php. 1:26, 2:12; 1 Thes. 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23; 2 Thes. 2:1,8,9; Jam. 5:7-8; 2 Pet. 1:16, 3:4,12; 1 Jhn. 2:28].

There are also many other words that also describe Jesus' visible, physical, audible, tumultuous, glorious, triumphant and literal return at His appointed time:

“to come and / or arrive” “erchomai” “ἔρχομαι” [Mat. 24:30, 26:64; Jhn. 14:3; 1 Cor. 11:26; Rev. 1:7],​

​

“to appear visibly” “optanomai” “ὀπτάνομαι” [Heb. 9:28],​

​

“to return” “analyō” “ἀναλύω” [Luk. 12:36],​

​

“to reveal” “apokalypsis” “ἀποκάλυψις” [2 Thes. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:7; Luk. 17:29-30],​

​

“to manifest” “epiphaneia” “ἐπιφάνεια” [1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 4:8; Tit. 2:13],​

​

“make manifest” “phaneroō” “φανερόω” [1 Pet. 5:4],​

​

“come” “hēkō” “ἥκω” [Rev. 2:25],​

​

“to return” “hypostrephō” “ὑποστρέφω” [Luk. 19:12].​

I myself, unashamedly, am a Seventh-day Adventist (2008-present). I often swap between "advent", "coming", "parousia", &c, as I feel led to alternate between them all. Even God, in the scripture, uses multiple words that mean the same thing (as many examples may be provided as needful, in Hebrew, Syriack or koine Greek, or simply English translation thereof).

 

[MatthewG]

It’s the wrapping of an age.

The first mention of the book of life was in the Old Testament.

This book of life to me was - “genealogy documentation concerning the twelve tribes of Israel.”


While I believe Revelation 20 has been completed and wrapped up. The remaining pictures are that of the remaining two chapters.

I don’t worry if my name is in the book of life or not. It’s unreasonable to even think or worry about.

That’s all I have to say on this thread.

 

[Hiddenthings]

This will be my last reply upon this topic, as I believe it is presently distracting from the OP's intent to study Rev. 20:1-15, though it seem to be very important to you, which is why I have spent so much time upon it thus far with you.

Not important at all, this was a test to see whether you could engage with the text itself, namely Hebrews 11 and 1 Corinthians 15, which clearly show that all people have not yet received the promise until the fullness of the Gentiles is complete. The fact that you could not address these passages highlights your inability to open the Word and let it speak for itself. You are skilled at speaking to Scripture, but when it comes to letting the Word speak to you, it seems your ears are closed.

An example follows:

Yes, as I (and yourself) have stated Christ Jesus upon His resurrection from the dead, became the "firstruits" of them that slept ... (1 Cor. 15:20,23 KJB). Please take careful notice of that last piece of phrasing, "of them that slept". This is why I went through so much trouble to cite many texts, and to respond to various points, that Enoch, Moses, Elijah are very much alive and in glory (having been glorified and taken back to Heaven (3rd)), and not sleeping in the dust of the earth at the time of Jesus' resurrection.

These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. Heb 11:13.

And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

What you need is to remove Enoch from Hebrews 11...can you do this Advent?

Every person in Hebrews 11 died in faith
Every person in Hebrews 11 did not receive what was promised i.e eternal life, Kingdom of God on Earth etc.

You are trying to rewrite Hebrews 11 by saying:

1. Enoch did not die
2. Enoch received what was promised

In both cases, you twist the text to support your “heaven-going” doctrine, which undermines your credibility in this discussion, because you are unwilling to acknowledge your error in light of the very clear evidence.

This reflects a blindness on your part, as you have approached the Word with preconceived beliefs that are not taught anywhere in the inspired text.

If your approach is to contradict the writer of Hebrews 11 with your own dogma, you should be upfront and admit it. Otherwise, you need to take heed of the context of Hebrews 11, which clearly shows that all mentioned died and none have yet received the promised reward for their faith.

As I mentioned earlier, this goes to credibility, if you cannot accept the context or the plain meaning of the text, how can anyone have confidence in what you say about Revelation 20?

It’s not good to hear that you’re in poor health. Although I haven’t read the prayer forum, I do sincerely hope and pray that your health is restored soon, or that the Lord returns, if that be His will.

 

[Adventageous]

It’s the wrapping of an age.

The first mention of the book of life was in the Old Testament.

This book of life to me was - “genealogy documentation concerning the twelve tribes of Israel.”


While I believe Revelation 20 has been completed and wrapped up. The remaining pictures are that of the remaining two chapters.

I don’t worry if my name is in the book of life or not. It’s unreasonable to even think or worry about.

That’s all I have to say on this thread.

Well, thank you for stopping by and leaving a comment.

While I disagree with your position that "Revelation 20 has been completed and wrapped up", I do appreciate your taking the time to share your position.

I agree that the book of life is mentioned in the OT:

Exo_32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.​

Exo_32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.​

God and Heaven records / witnesses:

Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you ...”​

​

Deuteronomy 31:28 KJB - “... and call heaven and earth to record against them.”​

​

Job 16:19 KJB - “... behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.”​

​

2 Corinthians 1:23 KJB - “Moreover I call God for a record ...”​

​

Philippians 1:8 KJB - “For God is my record ...”​

Books which record sin:

Exodus 32:32-33 KJB - “(v. 32) Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. (v. 33) And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”​

​

Isaiah 65:6-7 KJB - “(v. 6) Behold, it is written before me ... (v. 7) Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together ...”​

​

Jeremiah 2:22 KJB - “... thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.”​

See where sins are to be “blotted out” just before Jesus comes the 2nd time, when He comes out of the Most Holy Place in heaven, nearing the end of the Antitypical Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Zec. 3:1-7; Rev. 8:5, 18:1, 20:1-2 KJB; See also: Psa. 51:1,9, 109:13-14; Neh. 4:5; Jer. 18:23 KJB):

Acts 3:19 KJB - “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;”​

Books of Remembering / Remembrance:

​

Malachi 3:16 KJB - “... a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.”​

​

Ezekiel 18:24 KJB - “But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”​

Books which record our sorrows and trials:

Psalms 56:8 KJB - “Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?”​

​

Psalms 139:16 KJB - “... in thy book all my members were written ...”​

​

Ezekiel 2:10 KJB - “And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.”​

Book of the Living:

Psalms 69:28 KJB - “... blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.”​

Book of Life of the Lamb: Php. 4:3; Rev. 13:8, 17:8, 20:12,15, 21:27, 22:19 KJB

Other mentions of Books: Rev. 5:1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 KJB

[1.] There are Books of Heaven, in which things are written, which may be retained, or blotted out.​

​

[2.] God has His mind in which things are ‘remembered’ or ‘forgotten’.​

​

[3.] Forgiven Sin is Sin which is “covered” (Lev. 4:20,26,31,35; Psa. 32:1, 51:9a, 85:2; Neh. 4:5a; Isa. 44:22* (modification: “as a thick cloud” (see: Exo. 24:15-16, 40:34; also see: Job 36:32, 38:9; Psa. 105:39; Lam. 3:44; Eze. 32:7 KJB); Jer. 18:23(a); Mic. 7:19; Rom. 4:7 KJB) by the blood of Jesus until it is blotted out; See “cover” (Gen. 7:19-20, 38:15; Exo. 33:22; Deu. 33:12; Psa. 91:4, 104:6,9 KJB).​

​

[4.] Blotted Out Sin (Lev. 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Neh. 4:5b; Psa. 51:1,9b; Jer. 18:23b; Act. 3:19 KJB) is Sin which is gone forever, not written or remembered, whereas the opposite is also true (Psa. 69:28, 109:13-14 KJB).​

Consider those two things, [1] “cover” and [2] “blot out”, are separate and distinct, and not equal. If one’s sins are not “covered” by the blood, then they cannot be later “blotted out”. If one’s sins are covered, they are not yet blotted out, but if they are blotted out there is no longer any need for covering them:

​

Nehemiah 4:5 KJB - And cover not their iniquity, and let not their sin be blotted out from before thee: for they have provoked thee to anger before the builders.​

​

Jeremiah 18:23 KJB - Yet, LORD, thou knowest all their counsel against me to slay me: forgive not their iniquity, neither blot out their sin from thy sight, but let them be overthrown before thee; deal thus with them in the time of thine anger.​

Consider Psalms 51:1,9 KJB:

​

Psalms 51:1 KJB - To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.​

​

Psalms 51:9 KJB - Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.​

Notice the same two steps:

[1.] (v. 1) “Have mercy upon me” [forgiveness], (v. 9) “hide thy face” [forgiveness]​

​

[2.] (v. 1) “blot out my transgressions” [gone], (v. 9) “blot out all mine iniquities” [gone]​

1 John 1:9 KJB - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

It is clear that God would not have to “hide [cover] his face” from David’s, or the Christian’s, sins if doing so is to actually “blot” them out. When the sins are truly “blotted out” from the record of Heaven, and from the heart of the men and women here on earth, God no longer has to “hide [cover] his face” from them.

God will not only have “bought” (Lev. 25:50,51; 1 Pet. 1:18; 2 Pet. 2:1 KJB) people by the perfection of Jesus (Heb. 5:9 KJB), by His very “blood” (Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14; Heb. 9:12; Rev. 5:9 KJB); He will have fulfilled the Everlasting Covenant, and “brought” (Lev. 25:38,42; 1 Pet. 3:18 KJB) those believing people to the perfection of His character (which is found in His Holy Law (The Ten Commandments; Exo. 20:1-17 KJB, see Jhn. 14:15; Exo. 20:6; Rev. 14:7 KJB; the written character of God), and in Christ Jesus (the living demonstration of that perfect character of the Father)).

I hope that is helpful. Thank you again for posting.

 

[MatthewG]

No problem have a good day.

 

[Adventageous]

... It’s not good to hear that you’re in poor health. Although I haven’t read the prayer forum, I do sincerely hope and pray that your health is restored soon, or that the Lord returns, if that be His will.

I really appreciate that kindness Hiddenthings. Thank you.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I cannot acknowledge any such thing as you presently request, because I am not in error upon the points I have provided, and with evidence, documented that position. I will let my responses up to this point stand as they are, and feel that they are sufficiently given so that all may decide to study the matter for themselves.

If this line of thinking continues, it reflects pride rather than the humility that comes from careful study of the Word. The evidence is clear: Hebrews 11 confirms the faithful have not yet received what was promised, and 1 Corinthians 15 clearly states that Christ is the firstfruits, and afterward those who sleep in him will be raised.

There is no elite group of random believers who have been given eternal life before the Lord Jesus Christ - that teaching is pure madness!

John 3:13 "No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man."

Genesis 5:24 "Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him."

It is impossible for you to accept Hebrews 11 - 1 Corinthians 15 - John 3:13 and Genesis 5:24 and teach heaven going.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Well, thank you for stopping by and leaving a comment.

While I disagree with your position that "Revelation 20 has been completed and wrapped up", I do appreciate your taking the time to share your position.

I agree that the book of life is mentioned in the OT:

Exo_32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.​

Exo_32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.​

God and Heaven records / witnesses:

Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you ...”​

​

Deuteronomy 31:28 KJB - “... and call heaven and earth to record against them.”​

​

Job 16:19 KJB - “... behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.”​

​

2 Corinthians 1:23 KJB - “Moreover I call God for a record ...”​

​

Philippians 1:8 KJB - “For God is my record ...”​

Books which record sin:

Exodus 32:32-33 KJB - “(v. 32) Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. (v. 33) And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”​

​

Isaiah 65:6-7 KJB - “(v. 6) Behold, it is written before me ... (v. 7) Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together ...”​

​

Jeremiah 2:22 KJB - “... thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.”​

See where sins are to be “blotted out” just before Jesus comes the 2nd time, when He comes out of the Most Holy Place in heaven, nearing the end of the Antitypical Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Zec. 3:1-7; Rev. 8:5, 18:1, 20:1-2 KJB; See also: Psa. 51:1,9, 109:13-14; Neh. 4:5; Jer. 18:23 KJB):

Acts 3:19 KJB - “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;”​

Books of Remembering / Remembrance:

​

Malachi 3:16 KJB - “... a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.”​

​

Ezekiel 18:24 KJB - “But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”​

Books which record our sorrows and trials:

Psalms 56:8 KJB - “Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?”​

​

Psalms 139:16 KJB - “... in thy book all my members were written ...”​

​

Ezekiel 2:10 KJB - “And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.”​

Book of the Living:

Psalms 69:28 KJB - “... blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.”​

Book of Life of the Lamb: Php. 4:3; Rev. 13:8, 17:8, 20:12,15, 21:27, 22:19 KJB

Other mentions of Books: Rev. 5:1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 KJB

[1.] There are Books of Heaven, in which things are written, which may be retained, or blotted out.​

​

[2.] God has His mind in which things are ‘remembered’ or ‘forgotten’.​

​

[3.] Forgiven Sin is Sin which is “covered” (Lev. 4:20,26,31,35; Psa. 32:1, 51:9a, 85:2; Neh. 4:5a; Isa. 44:22* (modification: “as a thick cloud” (see: Exo. 24:15-16, 40:34; also see: Job 36:32, 38:9; Psa. 105:39; Lam. 3:44; Eze. 32:7 KJB); Jer. 18:23(a); Mic. 7:19; Rom. 4:7 KJB) by the blood of Jesus until it is blotted out; See “cover” (Gen. 7:19-20, 38:15; Exo. 33:22; Deu. 33:12; Psa. 91:4, 104:6,9 KJB).​

​

[4.] Blotted Out Sin (Lev. 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Neh. 4:5b; Psa. 51:1,9b; Jer. 18:23b; Act. 3:19 KJB) is Sin which is gone forever, not written or remembered, whereas the opposite is also true (Psa. 69:28, 109:13-14 KJB).​

Consider those two things, [1] “cover” and [2] “blot out”, are separate and distinct, and not equal. If one’s sins are not “covered” by the blood, then they cannot be later “blotted out”. If one’s sins are covered, they are not yet blotted out, but if they are blotted out there is no longer any need for covering them:

​

Nehemiah 4:5 KJB - And cover not their iniquity, and let not their sin be blotted out from before thee: for they have provoked thee to anger before the builders.​

​

Jeremiah 18:23 KJB - Yet, LORD, thou knowest all their counsel against me to slay me: forgive not their iniquity, neither blot out their sin from thy sight, but let them be overthrown before thee; deal thus with them in the time of thine anger.​

Consider Psalms 51:1,9 KJB:

​

Psalms 51:1 KJB - To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.​

​

Psalms 51:9 KJB - Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.​

Notice the same two steps:

[1.] (v. 1) “Have mercy upon me” [forgiveness], (v. 9) “hide thy face” [forgiveness]​

​

[2.] (v. 1) “blot out my transgressions” [gone], (v. 9) “blot out all mine iniquities” [gone]​

1 John 1:9 KJB - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

It is clear that God would not have to “hide [cover] his face” from David’s, or the Christian’s, sins if doing so is to actually “blot” them out. When the sins are truly “blotted out” from the record of Heaven, and from the heart of the men and women here on earth, God no longer has to “hide [cover] his face” from them.

God will not only have “bought” (Lev. 25:50,51 KJB) people by the perfection of Jesus (Heb. 5:9 KJB), by His very “blood” (Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14; Heb. 9:12; Rev. 5:9 KJB); He will have fulfilled the Everlasting Covenant, and “brought” (Lev. 25:38,42 KJB) those believing people to the perfection of His character (which is found in His Holy Law (The Ten Commandments; Exo. 20:1-17 KJB, see Jhn. 14:15; Exo. 20:6; Rev. 14:7 KJB; the written character of God), and in Christ Jesus (the living demonstration of that perfect character of the Father)).

I hope that is helpful. Thank you again for posting.

You’re not showing much wisdom here, Advent. I wouldn’t blame Matthew for skipping over your screen dump, this is a terrible way to communicate, and you should stop using this approach immediately.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Adventageous

All you need to do is acknowledge that there is no evidence for Enoch, or the other four mentioned being raised or ascending to heaven.

Do this and we continue with Revelation 20.

 

[XtraPercept]

If this line of thinking continues, it reflects pride rather than the humility that comes from careful study of the Word. The evidence is clear: Hebrews 11 confirms the faithful have not yet received the promise, and 1 Corinthians 15 clearly states that Christ is the firstfruits, and afterward those who sleep in him will be raised.

There is no elite group of random believers who have been given eternal life before the Lord Jesus Christ - that teaching is pure madness!

John 3:13 "No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man."

Genesis 5:24 "Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him."

It is impossible for you to accept Hebrews 11 - 1 Corinthians 15 - John 3:13 and Genesis 5:24 and teach heaven going.

Hebrews 11, in part:

Faith means the assurance of things hoped for; it is our conviction about things that we cannot see. For it was by it that the men of old gained God's approval.

It is faith that enables us to see that the universe was created at the command of God, so that the world we see did not simply arise out of matter.

The chapter concludes thusly:

Yet though they all gained God's approval by their faith, they none of them received what He had promised, for God had resolved upon something still better for us, that they might not reach the fulfilment of their hopes except with us.

To comment on the line of your quote I emphasized, it was that they had not received what Christ has delivered to us who believe what God says. Which is faith, which is what we were hoping for all along in searching the Scriptures to begin with!

It is the Spirit which connects all things through faith! It is how He teaches us all things, line by line, precept by precept, in boldness and certainty of the steps we take under His divine tutelage!

This is the message we should all be expressing through our careful use of every word He has given us to say at every opportunity He provides us to say it.

 

[Hiddenthings]

To comment on the line of your quote I emphasized, it was that they had not received what Christ has delivered to us who believe what God says. Which is faith, which is what we were hoping for all along in searching the Scriptures to begin with!

You will see I edited that section in my post to say "what was promised" - I believe they all had received by Faith the Gospel as preached from the beginning (to Abraham and so on), but God would not glorify them before Him taking from the Gentiles a people for His Name.

That is you and I Xtra!

 

[Hiddenthings]

This is the message we should all be expressing through our careful use of every word He has given us to say at every opportunity He provides us to say it.

Amen!

 

[ScottA]

This is the "Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study" thread.

(NOTE; PLEASE READ AT LEAST THIS POST BEFORE ENGAGING: Please, in charity (1 Cor. 13 KJB), be kind to each other's response in responding (Col. 4:6 KJB), whether one sees another's responses in error or not. This means a person can point out an error (by scripture), or by asking a question for clarification or in attempt to help another see a flaw, but please refrain from accusations, like 'liar' (that is difficult to prove motive of), 'deceiver', 'lost', &c/, like character assassinations, or previous argumentative history with a person (aka 'personal baggage / grievances / grudges'). As those things are unhelpful, and lead away from actual scriptural study. One may use words like correct, incorrect, fact and error, but in a kindly, demonstrative with evidence way.)

Here are the primary texts for study; Rev. 201-15 KJB (King James Bible), highlighting only "a thousand years", "the thousand years" in bold underline.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,​

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.​

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,​

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.​

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.​

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.​

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.​

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.​

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

This thread's author (myself) believes that the Bible is defined in the Bible, by God therein (Gen. 40:8; Isa. 28;10,13 KJB), and that as a Christian (we / I) should only "amen" what is already given to us therein from God (1 Pet. 4:11 KJB), as the scripture, being inspired of God (2 Tim. 3;16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21 KJB), is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33 KJB), but of "order" (1 Cor. 14:40 KJB) and perfect 'timing' (Ecc. 3:1 KJB), and 'cannot lie' (Tit. 1:2; Heb. 6:18 KJB), and so the word thereFrom, cannot be "broken" (non-contradictory; Jhn. 10:35; Psa. 119:160 KJB). This means I do not believe in, nor subscribe to, "private interpretation" (2 Pet. 1:20 KJB) at all. Therefore, if someone not liking a reply says, 'That is your [meaning 'my'] opinion ...', or something to that effect, they have unjustly mischaracterized my actual position, and present a 'strawman' of their own mind / making in its place, and have ceased from engaging with my actual response and position, and I may point this out in charity, and ask for a differing response. There is only 1 Truth, and it is the Truth of JEHOVAH Elohiym, being of, and belonging, to the LORD God. I do not have a monopoloy on Truth, as the Godhead shares with whomsoever They will.

Please go slowly, as it is not neccessary to place ones entire theology / eschatological position into a response. This thread is more about studying together, asking honest and sincere questions of one another about their positions held. People may openly disagree with one another, but please do so in a kindly fashion, with stated reasons / evidences for the disagreement. Allow the other respondant time to read, and engage with what is stated. If this thread, for whatever reason (generally satanic influences) becomes a name-calling event, as other threads, I will simply abandon this thread, and ask to have it closed by Moderation / Admin, or ask for a specific individual to be removed from further corrupt influence upon a sincerely intentioned endeavor.

"... be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." - Mat. 10:16 KJB​

Thank you all who participate in the Holy Spirit.

Spiritually "a thousand years" simply means: In the fulness of time / when the times are fulfilled.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Spiritually "a thousand years" simply means: In the fulness of time / when the times are fulfilled.

Out of interest, would you apply this same methodology to all numbers used in prophecy?

 

[Marilyn C]

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Thus 5 'groups' have been glorified in body already, and have entered into the 3rd Heaven (paradise) alive.​

​

1. Enoch​

2. Moses​

3. Elijah​

4. Jesus​

5. 'Firstfruits'​

​

Hi Adventageous,

Looking forward to reading through all of the notes and perhaps entering in.

Now just a little point here you may like to check up on.

In Heb. 12: 22 we read of `the spirits of just/righteous men (& women) made perfect.`

These are the OT saints and as yet have not received their new bodies. It is their spirits that are in the general Assembly in the third heaven awaiting their inheritance. (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

 

[Hiddenthings]

In Heb. 12: 22 we read of `the spirits of just/righteous men (& women) made perfect.`

These are the OT saints and as yet have not received their new bodies. It is their spirits that are in the general Assembly in the third heaven awaiting their inheritance. (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

The saints do receive new bodies, nor has their breath been returned to them, which will occur only at the resurrection. Your position therefore assumes the existence of ethereal, immortal spirits, a concept not taught anywhere in Scripture.

The concept of “going to heaven” is a later mythological import that emerged between the first and third centuries and was never taught by the inspired apostles.

This is but one of the corruptions that the original Gospel went through.

There are many!

 

[Marilyn C]

The saints do receive new bodies, nor has their breath been returned to them, which will occur only at the resurrection. Your position therefore assumes the existence of ethereal, immortal spirits, a concept not taught anywhere in Scripture.

The concept of “going to heaven” is a later mythological import that emerged between the first and third centuries and was never taught by the inspired apostles.

This is but one of the corruptions that the original Gospel went through.

There are many!

I see you have given NO scriptures to prove what you say. To engage in meaningful discussion scriptures are needed.

 

[Hiddenthings]

...Continuing on with Revelation 20:1

The language of Revelation 20:1 is unmistakably symbolic and must be interpreted according to Scripture’s own interpretive framework, not imported assumptions. The phrase “having the key of the bottomless pit” does not describe a literal subterranean prison, for the Greek term abussos simply means “the deep” and nowhere contains the idea of “bottomless.” Throughout Scripture the abyss is consistently associated with the sea and turbulent waters, which in prophetic typology represent the restless nations of mankind (Rev 17:15; Isa. 57:20).

Revelation 17:15 And the angel said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages.”

Isaiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the tossing sea; for it cannot be quiet, and its waters toss up mire and dirt.

The “key,” as Scripture itself defines, is a symbol of authority and power (Isa. 22:22; Rev. 1:18), indicating that this angel is invested with divine authority to act upon, and exercise control over, the nations.

Likewise, the “great chain in his hand” cannot be literal, for it is employed to restrain a symbolic adversary. Scripture uses chains figuratively to denote restraint and limitation of activity, not physical incarceration (Mark 5:4). The imagery communicates enforced restriction rather than annihilation or removal. Taken together, the symbols depict a divinely authorised restraint placed upon the nations and their deceiving influence, not a literal descent into a physical abyss. To read these figures literally is to ignore the consistent prophetic language of Scripture and to sever the Apocalypse from its own internal explanations. Revelation interprets Revelation, and when allowed to do so, the meaning is both coherent and compelling.

Key:

Red = The successive kingdoms of men are depicted in Daniel (and Revelation) as wild, grotesque beasts
Blue = The Kingdom of God established through the activities of Christ and the Saints of the Most-High God

The events depicted in Revelation 20 mark the transition from the kingdoms of men to the Kingdom of God. These events are political in nature, as they concern the subjugation of all nations under divine rule.

Revelation 11:15 “The kingdom of the world has become (Rev 20) the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed… it shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever.”

Daniel 7:14 “And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him…”

Daniel 7:27 “And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven (on earth!) shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High…”

Understanding that Advent is a Seventh-day Adventist, he will attempt to persuade you that what is being restrained in this chapter is some fictitious evil fallen angel. However, as we shall see, the details within the symbols make it perfectly clear that no such being exists.

Daniel and Revelation are in perfect harmony with one another, and as we work through this study the events they describe will become unmistakably clear. The essence of this prophecy is the political transition from the fragmented nations of the feet (image) to the reign of a single, all-powerful, righteous King and his Saints.

 

[Hiddenthings]

While Daniel’s prophecies serve as the key to correctly interpreting the Apocalypse, it is also important to understand the broader framework in which Revelation 20 is situated.

While Genesis describes a serpent “more cunning than any of the animals the Lord God had made,” the symbol takes on a far deeper and more far-reaching significance in Revelation.

Undoubtedly, you are aware of the seed of the serpent, those who live according to the flesh and its influence throughout history. Revelation 20 depicts a time when God’s righteousness acts to bring these fleshly nations under control (cf. Romans 8). The allotted period of a thousand years serves to complete the overarching purpose: God dwelling in humanity and becoming all in all.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you agree that Jesus will return to Heaven (3rd) with the resurrected and translated saints?

No. Nothing in the bible says they go to heaven. They go to the Earth in order to reign over the nations promised in Rev 19.

Do you think that Jesus will touch the sin-polluted earth at the 2nd Advent?

Of course.

or rather that He will remain in the "air", and all righteous are gathered from the 4 quarters of the earth, and "caught up" unto Him and return with Him back to the Father's house?

That does not happen according to scripture.

Do you agree that Jesus will come down from heaven (3rd) with the New Jerusalem, and all the saints with Him, to the earth, at the ending of the 1000 years,

No, that also is not scriptural. He is on Earth when NJ comes down and so are all the saints. Heaven is empty except for the father.

Just curious, Where do you think Jesus is "at the timeframe of Rev. 20:1", since you do not believe Jesus is in heaven at that time?

There is only one option.

At this point, I am only presenting the case that the "an angel" of Rev. 20:1, simply a designation for the Son, as messenger for the Father's person, and who comes down to seal the Devil, for 1000 years, among other things.

Any angel in Rev is not Jesus.

I am not aware of any other 'angel' (any other messenger, in heaven or earth) that has the capability to seal away the devil.

Any angel can do that if God wants it done. An ant could. A fly could.