Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

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amigo de christo

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‘Yes.

And now it’s time for you to answer.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


Do you believe God was manifested in the flesh?


Yes or No?
YES .
And let us take note of several things concerning THIS CHRIST JESUS .
HE always corrected ERROR .
Let us also take note of what the angel told john when john knelt to worship before it .
I am of your brethren , Get up , WORSHIP GOD . notice it said WORSHIP GOD .
Okay now lets return to show an example where JESUS corrected THOMAS
for HIS UNBELEIF in not beleiving HE had been risen from the dead when he was told by others .
HE REBUKED HIM .
Now thomas seen him and marvelled
and quickly hit the ground
and had this to say . MY LORD AND MY GOD .
TELL me , DID JESUS DO as did the angel and say HEY get up i am but of your brethren , WORSHIP GOD .
YEAH DIDNT THINK SO . THOMAS sure was corrected for his unbelief
BUT darn sure was n ot corrected at all by JESUS for saying MY LORD and MY GOD . just a friendly reminder to us all .
 

amigo de christo

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‘Yes.

And now it’s time for you to answer.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


Do you believe God was manifested in the flesh?


Yes or No?
Something else to help this generation .
IF you have seen me phillip YOU have seen the FATHER .
Now tell me , WOULD YOU DARE to tell this to man just because THE SPIRIT OF GOD works in you .
NONE Of us would have dared to utter such a thing .
IF you have seen ME you have SEEN the FATHER . HOW LONG a time have i been with YOU
phillip and yet thou has not known me .
NOW WHICH OF US WOULD EVER TELL a soul
who said to us , WELL shew us the FATHER . HOW LONG a time have i been with you .
I hope not anyone . WHILE IT IS TRUE the SPIRIT OF GOD works t hrough us
WE would never have uttered those words
LET ALONE
would we have said to any man , I AM THE FIRST and THE LAST .
WHICH HE ALSO SAID real clearly in the message to the seven churches .
That title does not belong to any man , any prophet , any angel , BUT UNTO GOD .
So i think , HIGHLY SUGGEST and HIGHLY PLEAD
to all that its high time for us all to get back into the scriptures to learn for ourselves and beware of men
for many decievers do abound .
 

Marvelloustime

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Something else to help this generation .
IF you have seen me phillip YOU have seen the FATHER .
Now tell me , WOULD YOU DARE to tell this to man just because THE SPIRIT OF GOD works in you .
NONE Of us would have dared to utter such a thing .
IF you have seen ME you have SEEN the FATHER . HOW LONG a time have i been with YOU
phillip and yet thou has not known me .
NOW WHICH OF US WOULD EVER TELL a soul
who said to us , WELL shew us the FATHER . HOW LONG a time have i been with you .
I hope not anyone . WHILE IT IS TRUE the SPIRIT OF GOD works t hrough us
WE would never have uttered those words
LET ALONE
would we have said to any man , I AM THE FIRST and THE LAST .
WHICH HE ALSO SAID real clearly in the message to the seven churches .
That title does not belong to any man , any prophet , any angel , BUT UNTO GOD .
So i think , HIGHLY SUGGEST and HIGHLY PLEAD
to all that its high time for us all to get back into the scriptures to learn for ourselves and beware of men
for many decievers do abound .
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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YES .
And let us take note of several things concerning THIS CHRIST JESUS .
HE always corrected ERROR .
Let us also take note of what the angel told john when john knelt to worship before it .
I am of your brethren , Get up , WORSHIP GOD . notice it said WORSHIP GOD .
Okay now lets return to show an example where JESUS corrected THOMAS
for HIS UNBELEIF in not beleiving HE had been risen from the dead when he was told by others .
HE REBUKED HIM .
Now thomas seen him and marvelled
and quickly hit the ground
and had this to say . MY LORD AND MY GOD .
TELL me , DID JESUS DO as did the angel and say HEY get up i am but of your brethren , WORSHIP GOD .
YEAH DIDNT THINK SO . THOMAS sure was corrected for his unbelief
BUT darn sure was n ot corrected at all by JESUS for saying MY LORD and MY GOD . just a friendly reminder to us all .
@amigo de christo
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amigo de christo

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Odd to say in light of the fact that the Creator has sent angels and mere men as prophets to get the job done.
OH he has .
JUST NOT IN the case of what can reconcile man back to HIM .
Sorry friend , keep trying if you desire , but this sheep aint heeding it .
But what worries me even more is
how closely many are now in bed with satans ecumencial whore .
Just remember i NEVER ONCE gave this world false hope through false love .
By grace i continually reminded , continually warned of the absolute dire NEED to have to BELEIVE ON JESUS .
Ya nar realm dont . IT Hugs and kisses with the ex wife of Mr m oon
and scores of others who believe in this bull dung junk like GOD is in every religoin .
YOU all g onna wail if you all dont get out from anything remotely tied to ecumencalism .
WHICH IS ABOUT now almost even one hun dred percent of christendom . ITS BAD .
Time to stop hugging false love
And embrace the ONLY TRUE LOVE of GOD . T his world aint gonna make it .
 
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shepherdsword

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@shepherdsword ... more info for study and reproof..

Here's a starter intro to the subject that you are arguing about that I just rigged up. It is a serious subject.

-------------------------------------------
The Greek language does not have a direct equivalent for the Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHWH, which is the personal name of God in the Old Testament.

As a result, early Greek translators of the Hebrew Scriptures, particularly in the Septuagint (LXX), rendered YHWH primarily with the Greek word κύριος (kyrios), meaning "lord" or "master".

This single Greek term was used to translate multiple Hebrew concepts, including both the divine name YHWH and the more general term אָדוֹן (adonai), meaning "lord" or "master".

This linguistic convergence or adaptation into scripture creates much ambiguity and confusion (as I notice on this site), as κύριος can refer to God, a human lord, or even Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

This lack of distinction in Greek has led to interpretive challenges in Scripture, to say the least, particularly when the New Testament quotes the Old Testament. Since the New Testament was written in Greek, it often reflects the Septuagint's use of κύριος for YHWH, which can obscure whether the reference is to God, the Father or to Yeshua the Christ, especially when the term is applied to Yeshua.

For example, in Psalm 110:1, the phrase "The Lord says to my Lord" uses κύριος twice, but the first refers to God (YHWH) and the second to the Messiah, the Son, a distinction that is not always clear in translation.

This ambiguity is further compounded because the Greek word κύριος was also used to translate the Hebrew word for "master" in human contexts, making it difficult to discern the intended referent without careful contextual analysis.

And here's a couple of sources for some of this text


and I do not vouch for all their contents either.

Hope this helps...
The Shema states YHWH our Elohim(plural YHWH is ONE (echad) That sums it up. It is clearly stating a unity out of plurality
 

shepherdsword

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Interesting. In law, the analogy might be dicta; an expression made by a judge that is a casual observation and not Germaine to the decision at hand.

Some attempt to use dicta as precedent. This is specious.

As it relates to our discussion, I find invoking the expression from Genesis to be dicta or a “borderline verse” as you put it; made in our image to support a multi-person person BECAUSE it presumes who God is talking to.

By contrast, the decision hinges on the text of the Shema, as you pointed out and the 1st commandment. It’s so important, God put it first. And he said, you shall have no other gods before me. This is decisive as it is not a throw away dicta comment, a command and has no ambiguity; God is a single person.

Advocates of your position thrive on dicta, on ambiguity. The more ambiguous, the more you doctrinally invest in it. See John 1:1
Nothing ambiguous about John 1:1
 
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shepherdsword

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The main proof against your claim is twofold:
  1. It contradicts Scripture
It IS scripture...what are you talking about?
  1. There is no verse that states your dogma.
Regarding the Shema, you pretend one God means a 3-in-1 God. You don’t want to grasp how these are not the same.

The one God has a name, YHWH. He says this is his eternal name. You construe this to mean in 17 centuries, he’ll go by another name.

Because there is no trinity verse, you have to rely on extreme eisegesis to read you trinitarian IDOL into unitarian text. That’s right, the whole Bible, with the possible exception of Luke, was written by unitarian Jewish authors, who reject the trinity b to this day.

Your claim that copying and pasting something destroys my argument is false.
The Trinity is revealed all through the scriptures,,,for those with eyes to see
 
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amigo de christo

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It IS scripture...what are you talking about?

The Trinity is revealed all through the scriptures,,,for those with eyes to see
perhaps it had been far better to use the word GODHEAD .
But what i do say to one i say to all .
Many who even do have the right understanding of the GODHEAD
now do the will of the ecumenical harlot and have no idea they do and have bought her love
which cometh with a price . and the price is THEIR DAMNATION on the day of the LORD .
DENY JESUS , THERE IS NO SALVATION .
AND if we deny HIS WORDS , T HEN WE DO DENY HIM .
 
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Beebster

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Your words Beebster.....create the CONCLUSION that there are two Gods.
If you don't want to accept this...it's OK with me.
No, my words have allowed you to come to that conclusion.
Here's what the New Testament teaches:

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.
Yes we agree, there is only one God.
Within that One God exists two other Persons.
God is not a person.

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

per·son
/ˈpərs(ə)n/
noun
  1. 1.
    a human being regarded as an individual.
Thus making:
ONE BEING
THREE PERSONS in that ONE BEING.
What i find interesting that when I say the Father is God, the Son is God and that God is a family, you start counting Gods.

When you speak of a Trinity the counting stops at one.

Thats magic math.

This is known as the Trinity and is what Christianity has accepted from the beginning of the Christian faith.
Yeah and most of them probably thought the earth was flat too.
There are religions that do not believe in the Trinity...
for instance: The Jewish Religion and the Islamic Religion.

You could belong to one of those two if you do not believe in the Trinity.

However, Christians believe in the Trinity.
Not this Christian.
 
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Wrangler

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JUST NOT IN the case of what can reconcile man back to HIM .
So you say. Scripture says otherwise

2 Corinthians 5:18 The Voice

18 All of this is a gift from our Creator God, who has pursued us and brought us into a restored and healthy relationship with Him through the Anointed. And He has given us the same mission,the ministry of reconciliation, to bring others back to Him.
 
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JustMe

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The Shema states YHWH our Elohim(plural YHWH is ONE (echad) That sums it up. It is clearly stating a unity out of plurality
So you have suddenly slammed the door on the subject of 'Lords and LORD.' Oh well, and I thought I added some info that would have been useful to you.

Now you bring the case of the Shema, front and center and calling the one, cardinal one, numero 1, YHWH or LORD a unity of plurality. That's quite creative and has no place in the Bible.

So like 3 or more grapes attached to the same stem is considered only one bunch of one substance. Quite amusing and not quite what the Hebrew words mean at all.

I give you top marks for creativity and zero for substance (pun intended).

Tinkering around with words and expressions in scripture in an attempt to create and insert new meanings and then create novel reinterpretations of scripture, biased toward a triune god, must be a thankless job I imagine. This work has been done years ago without success. I do not why you are so keen to keep retracing the same trails of despair and disappointment, of your spiritual ancestors.

So, no, YHWH is not a unity (out) of (a) plurality.
 
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shepherdsword

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So you have suddenly slammed the door on the subject of 'Lords and LORD.' Oh well, and I thought I added some info that would have been useful to you.

Now you bring the case of the Shema, front and center and calling the one, cardinal one, numero 1, YHWH or LORD a unity of plurality. That's quite creative and has no place in the Bible.

So like 3 or more grapes attached to the same stem is considered only one bunch of one substance. Quite amusing and not quite what the Hebrew words mean at all.

I give you top marks for creativity and zero for substance (pun intended).

Ticking around with words and expressions in scripture in an attempt to create and insert new meanings and then create novel reinterpretations of scripture, biased toward a triune god, must be a thankless job I imagine. This work has been done years ago without success. I do not why you are so keen to keep retracing the same trails of despair and disappointment, of your spiritual ancestors.

So, no, YHWH is not a unity (out) of (a) plurality.
So yes, it is. "Elohim" is plural. "One" is "echad or a composite unity. Let's look at it's usage:

Ex 26:6, 11-“the fifty gold clasps are used to hold the curtains together so that the tent would be a unit.” (echad).
2 Samuel 2:25—“many soldiers made themselves into one group.” (echad).
Gen 34:16 –“the men of Shechem suggest intermarriage with Jacob's children in order to become one (echad) people.”


Num. 13:23 According to the view of the anti-trinity sect, when the spies went over into the land of Canaan they brought back one grape (Heb. eschal echad.) That’s one big grape! Can anyone actually think it was a numerical statement? It means one cluster of grapes. In Ps.133:1, the brethren are to dwell together as one (in unity). 1 Sam.3:17. They are called one company. 1 Kings 7:42, one tribe. 1 Kings 11:13, Israel is called one nation.

god, plural, is one in unity (echad [ekh-awd]). The “SHEMA,” as it is called by the Jewish people, goes like this: “hear (sh’ma) Israel (yisrael) the Lord (Yaweh) our god (elohaynoo), the Lord (Yaweh) is one (echad).. Deut 6:4.

There are two words for “one” in Biblical Hebrew: “echad” (composite unity--one made up of parts) yachiyd (yaw-kheed). The shema is sometimes used by some Jewish people to assert a numerical value for the Godhead to disprove a “Christian” notion of plurality-in-unity. But this verse actually does the opposite. Moses could just as easily used yachiyd instead, which MIGHT have been of some support to their position. But Moses inspired by God uses “echad,” which lends itself to the plurality position. Consider some other passages in which “echad” is used.

A man and a woman who come together in marriage are said to become one [echad] flesh. There are two persons, a man and a woman, coming together in marriage, and the two become one. Obviously, they do not become an absolute one, for they retain their separate personages; however, there is definitely a unity there. No one is tempted two develop a doctrine of married couples where the wife is only the manifestation of the husband; we know better. The Godhead is of such a magnitude that it is inconceivable to completely know God, we can only accept what He wants to reveal through progressive revelation passing through the Old Testament and finally through the New Testament.

God called Adam and Eve “Adam,” or man, that is what Adam means. Often in the New Testament, the people were referred to as brothers, which included women. Another example is Ezra 3:1, where the whole assembly of Israel was as one [echad]. Although it was comprised of numerous individuals, they were all looked upon as one, obviously a united one. Another example is Ezekiel 37:17, where Ezekiel is told to put two sticks together, and they are combined to become one [echad] stick. These are clear examples of the usage of the word echad in the Hebrew text, which is the very same word used in Deuteronomy 6:4, clearly showing that it is speaking of a compound unity, not an absolute one.

Zech 14:9, “And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be--The LORD is one, And His name one (echad).”

In the New Testament there is a Greek equivalent to the Hebrew word for one. In Mt.19:5, Jesus quotes Gen.2:24 about a husband and wife becoming one flesh; the word used is hen. Jesus prays that as believers (plural) we will be one (unity) even as (Gr. kathos; according as, just as, even as) he and the Father are one. He did not mean our persons would be merged together in some numerical one, it means a unity corresponding to the plurality/unity of the Godhead. The God of the Old Testament is a united one. The God of the New Testament is a united one. This is what God being one means.

Jn.10:30 "I and my Father are (Gr. esmen, we are) one (Gr. Hen)," this is not numerical; Jesus is not saying he is the Father. They are not one person, but in nature they are unified. It actually reads, "we are one" in Greek the first person plural esmen means ‘we are.’ Again this is a unity in nature, not a numerical statement.

The word one in Greek is Hen and it is a neuter nominative so it refers to one in essence and nature, and kind. That he is deity just as the Father is. He went on to explain he is the Son of God and the Pharisees understood his claim of making himself to be equal with the Father.

It is the epitome of academic dishonesty to claim there is no evidence for a multiplicity in the Godhead.
 

Wrangler

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God is not a person.

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

per·son
/ˈpərs(ə)n/
noun
  1. 1.
    a human being regarded as an individual.
While I agree with the rest of your post, if you read down to sense 3, you find God does apply to person.

3 law : one (such as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties
 

shepherdsword

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While I agree, some want to claim it says something about Jesus, when it doesn’t.
It absolutely refers to Jesus. What other "word" became flesh and dwelt among us?

Jn 1:14-17
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
(an obvious reference to Jesus) And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

What word was made flesh? This word:

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 
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