Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

[GodsGrace]

Not God. The word OF God. I know you are desperate to conclude God became flesh but thats just not what the text of John 1:1 reads. I know you are desperate to make a substitution of terms of how another verse reads.

Let's look again Wrangler:


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing * came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

John 1:14​

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us,


We see that:

1. The WORD was with God and the WORD was God. verse 1
2. This WORD is referred to as HE. verse 2
3. Everything came into being through HIM. verse 3

So this WORD is referred to as a HIM.
A HIM is a person...not a thing.
YOU say it is referring a word...as if it were a THING.

John does not agree with you.


4. This WORD....this HE became FLESH and dwelt among us.


Is a THING, like a word for instance, FLESH?
Does this word THING dwell among us?


No Sir.
John is speaking about the WORD as being HE.
This HE became flesh and dwelt among us --- meaning He came down to earth from the very being of God....
thus HE is GOD, being of the same substance/essence.


No desperation required.
But those who do not believe the NT, they are rather desperate to show how it's wrong.

 

[shepherdsword]

Projecting defeat.

The basic argument is to retreat to ancient foreign language and suppose a back water language like English cannot adequately translate a word that has more than one sense.

Elohim was plural in the original Hebrew. The fact that Elohim is plural for "El" is undeniable. Sometimes, important nuances are lost in translation. That's why going back to the original language is important.

 

[shepherdsword]

SW, Elohim is not exactly plural, it is not, it is YHWH actively in the present time, expressing a/his own majestic plurality (plural of majesty) (like when the Queen might say, "we are not amused." She is one person, although she speaks as being many people/persons because of her position and power and influence. When she speaks people listen. What you have been taught is categorically false. Most scholars believe as I do, Trinitarian or not that Elohim is one person and not a plurality of people.

Even if it were so and it's not, a plurality means more than one of something.. 2,3,4........n, not just 3! I hope you can understand this simple point. You have been taught to believe that generally anything that whistles or sounds like being plural, especially remotely associated with God, it automatically means only 3.

And therefore Elohim is not a collective noun either, if you already considered to travel to this dead end. So you cannot forge a fictious relation with the noun Elohim and echad.

(Gen 1:26) God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
(Gen 1:27) God created man in His own image. In God’s image He created him; male and female He created them.

Let me give you some points to remember regarding God - Elohim. It took me some time assemble and I gladly give them to you.

The Hebrew language and its 'Elohim' usage in scripture: The Hebrew language is a bit complex, and the Greek and especially the English have a hard time translating the Hebrew language into their respective languages.

1. The word Elohim for the one true God YHWH is in a plural form of the noun. It has been used in the OT about 2,570 times.

2. When Elohim is used in a complete sentence, and a verb, an adjective and a pronoun is used to represent it, the subject only, the pronoun, adjective and verb are always singular. Even though any pronoun can be singular or plural.

3. Elohim has more than one definition as a plural or singular noun.

4. In a plural sense, Elohim can mean gods, those in authority. In a singular sense it means God Almighty or a god.

5. Hebrew lexicons give preference to the term Elohim in the plural sense as being rulers and judges as divine representatives or indicating divine majesty and powers. They have superhuman abilities, for angels, heavenly beings and gods, and for people doing divine work.

6. Not one definition of Elohim in Hebrew mentions a plurality within a plurality of beings or undefinable persons. Not one time! gods are individual gods, not composed internally of a plurality of beings or personalities within each.

7. Elohim in the singular sense is the one God, a god, a judge and never any hint of a plurality or a compound of different or same entities with the single Elohim God, god or judge. Even Moses was called a god or Elohim - Exodus 7:1. Pagan gods were called Elohim over 200 times.

8. The Encyclopedia Britannica says Elohim means the 'plural of majesty' the God of Israel. It also says, ‘... When referring to Yahweh, elohim very often is accompanied by the article ha-, to mean, in combination, “the God,” and sometimes with a further identification Elohim ḥayyim, meaning “the living God.”

And further, it states, 'Thus, in Genesis the words, “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth,” Elohim is monotheistic in connotation, though its grammatical structure seems polytheistic. The Israelites probably borrowed the Canaanite plural noun Elohim and made it singular in meaning in their cultic practices and theological reflections.'[1]

9. Another source: '...It was general practice among the Hebrew people to pluralize nouns when they desired to express greatness or majesty. It is then not a numerical plural. For example: Moses is also called elohim, for God made Moses very great in the land of Egypt (Exo 7:1; 11:3) ...' And further it says, ‘...dictionaries define elohim as a plural of majesty. For example, the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament says that “the plural ending is usually described as a plural of majesty and not intended as a true plural when used of God.”[2]

Moses was made 'larger' and more powerful that he was capable of being, because the one true God empowered and drove him, like his Son, Yeshua.

10. Deuteronomy 6:4 ...'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one... (Lord (LORD or YHWH)).'

Exodus 7:1 ...'And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god [ELOHIM] to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.'

Did God tell Moses that He was going to make him a 'trinity' to Pharaoh? Of course not. God is telling Moses that He was going to make him 'GREAT' in the eyes of Pharaoh. Which is what the word Elohim really means ... 'greatness' and 'majesty'. Look at how this is revealed in 1 Chronicles 29.

1 Chronicles 29:10-11 ...'Wherefore David blessed the Lord before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed be thou, Lord God [Elohim] of Israel our father, for ever and ever. Thine, O Lord is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted as head above all.'

This is the 'plurality' of Elohim. It is a 'plurality of majesty', just as David confirmed above. And it belongs to God the Father, as 'head above all' - even the head of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:3)

11. Look at the following interesting quote concerning Elohim and the Trinity:

Review and Herald"... it is certain that the synagogue (their church) held to no such doctrine. Says Mr. Summerbell, 'A friend of mine who was present in a New York synagogue, asked the Rabbi for an explanation of the word 'Elohim'. A Trinitarian clergyman who stood by, replied, 'Why, that has reference to the three persons in the Trinity,' when a Jew stepped forward and said he must not mention that word again, or they would have to compel him to leave the house; for it was not permitted to mention the name of any strange god in the synagogue." (Discussion between Summerbell and Flood on Trinity, p. 38) Milman says the idea of the Trident is fabulous. (Hist. Christianity, p. 34)[3]

12. Scripture contains no reproof (no condemnation) for those who do not believe in a “Triune God.” Those who do not believe in God are called “fools” (Ps. 14:1). Those who reject Christ are condemned (John 3:18). Scripture testifies that it is for “doctrine, reproof, and correction” (2 Tim. 3:16 – KJV), and there are many verses that reprove believers for all kinds of erroneous beliefs and practices. Conspicuous in its absence is any kind of reproof for not believing in the Trinity.

---

[1] (Britannia.com 2010)
[2] (Niekerk 2022)
[3] (Loughborough n.d.)

And the verse 1:26 in Genesis, it the same thing I already wrote about concerning Elohim, concerning the majestic plurality applied in creating man, with two plural pronouns in the verse.

Try reading the next verse to confirm it, to be sure and intellectually honest. Suddenly in the next verse, Elohim becomes one person as he was in verse 26, and using singular verbs.

(Gen 1:27) God created man in His own image. In God’s image He created him; male and female He created them.

In verse 27 this is a record of what the single person Elohim did, created man in his own image.

Verse 26 is the active present voice or expression of God when he actually created man in his own image, making himself known in a majestic and a greater sense that being just one God of himself.

Here's something else I will add in for you as a bonus.

This is a list of how Echad is used in the Torah" Keep it for future reference...

View attachment 77210

To end with two verses to remind who is God as he is an echad of one, numerically...not a unity in any plurality.

View attachment 77211



The YHWH/LORD/Adonai/ Elohim - God I know will never share HIS glory with anyone, even with his Son, eventhough he has given glory to him.

I hope all this helps in some way.

Continue on my good man SW...!

LOL, you act as if you posted anything that refuted my position.

1) Oh, you did claim that Elohim is not plural but that is in stark denial of the parsing of the word in Hebrew.

2) Echad can mean Unity out of Plurality. When used with the plural Elohim that is the only meaning that can be assigned to it

3) The fact that God will not share his glory proves my point...ponder this mystery:
Jn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Why did He glorify Jesus? Because they are echad..ONE

Let's open an thread devoted to the the Godhead. I have a GREAT many other verses that prove my point. You have failed to rebut this one.

I hope this enlightens you on who Jesus Christ really is.

 

[amigo de christo]

This verse does not appear in the oldest and best manuscripts. Based on syntax, grammar, and vocabulary this section of Mark was definitely authored by someone other than Mark.

You fell for the footnotes my friend .
I seen those footnotes in the newer bibles .
THEY lie to us all .
I quickly went around and took notice they tried to do this in other places too
that spoke of being damned , but were not able to get them all .
THEY LIE TO US , just like the so called greek scholar lied to the JW and came up with his own greek .
And you bought it . I told us to beware of men , but i did not warn us first
You need to return to basic childlike faith . If ever you had it to begin with .
We been being deceived for a long time my friend .
Do not buy their words , their greek , their so called wisdom that does nothing
but lead this people to the agenda of men . Or wail at thy end you surely will .
PREACH JESUS , not false love and false hope .

 

[Wrangler]

John 1:14

All you do is repeat your diatribe, unwilling to look at v14 through v45.

 

[GodsGrace]

All you do is repeat your diatribe, unwilling to look at v14 through v45.

Must I do your work for you?

Post them and let's take a look.

 

[Beebster]

That is why we ought to use the word Godhead .

How would that support the Trinity doctrine?

 

[Beebster]

Agreed.

Actually Beebster, the Trinity/Godhead is not a theory.
It's what Christians have been taught and believe from the very beginning.

OK
ONE GOD

OK
TWO GODS

Understood 5 posts ago.

So if Father is God
and Son is God

that makes TWO GODS.

UNLESS the Trinity is true.

The Trinity teaches that there is ONE GOD but three PERSONS in that One God.
The Person you leave out is the Holy Spirit - who is referred to as a Person.

Here is an image that might help you to understand what Christians believe:


View attachment 77260



Yes sir.
Jesus is the Son of God.
Jesus IS GOD.
Which I believe you agree with.

The Holy Spirit is also a Person of the Trinity....

John 14:16-17
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot * receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.


Acts 5:3-4
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why * has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."


John 14:26
26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, HE will teach you all things...


Matthew 28:19
19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[Wrangler]

Must I do your work for you?

Post them and let's take a look.

See post #333.

 

[Beebster]

Agreed.

Actually Beebster, the Trinity/Godhead is not a theory.

Did theologians change the definition of "theory" as well. I must have missed that.

It's what Christians have been taught and believe from the very beginning.

The beginning of?

The Trinity teaches that there is ONE GOD but three PERSONS in that One God.

I'm well aware of what the trinity is.

The Person you leave out is the Holy Spirit - who is referred to as a Person.

Again, the only way to make or say that the Holy Spirit is a person is by changing the definition of the word "person."

Here is an image that might help you to understand what Christians believe:


View attachment 77260

You should realize that once you put "the Father" where he should be in that diagram, the whole triangle would disappear.

The Father should be smack dab in the center for he is, was and always will be greater than the Son.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:29)

Now if the Father "is greater than all" and the Holy Sipirit is a person as you claim then again, "the Father" should be in the center.

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

Again, "the Father" should be in the center.

Your diagram shows that the Father is NOT Holy Spirit. Do you seriously believe that?

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. (Mat 1:18)

So, which "person" in your trinity is Jesus' Father?

 

[Beebster]

Please prove, with scripture, that Jesus is not eternal.

Sure but let's use a little common sense first.

If God the Father is eternal, which I believe he is and I assume you do as well, how can his Son be the same age as he is?

Now please, and I mean this sincerely, pay close attention:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Rom 10:9)

Dwell on that for awhile. And please think deeply about what I am about to say to you next:

Any being that dies, CANNOT be eternal.

 

[amigo de christo]

How would that support the Trinity doctrine?

Verily verily i type unto thee to beware of men and thier so called high and mighty scholars of greek .
Cause many are the deceivers my friend . Many . cant even begin to count them and they lead
this people to perdition . Let us remain in the scriptures .

 

[marks]

Any being that dies, CANNOT be eternal.

However, when an Eternal Being takes on a body, and offers that body in death, that Eternal Being, though having given that body to death, remains eternal.

This is what Hebrews presents.

Hebrews 10:5-10 KJV
5) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6) In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7) Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The wording is very specific.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

However, when an Eternal Being takes on a body, and offers that body in death, that Eternal Being, though having given that body to death, remains eternal.

This is what Hebrews presents.

Hebrews 10:5-10 KJV
5) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6) In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7) Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The wording is very specific.

Much love!

Exactly mark . THE WORD HAD TO BECOME FLESH
in order to save us . HE had to walk in the flesh of a man to overcome all things that man cannot .
Death had no hold on him . He overcame death and HE who had the power over death .
So all who do b eleive in HIM would not perish but have everlasting life .
No angel , no mere man , no prophet could have done what ONLY GOD can do .
With man this is impossible . BUT NOT WITH GOD .
The CREATOR of all that was would come to save creation b y doing what had to be done .
The spotless lamb of GOD , THE WORD become flesh . The Word was in the beginning
the word was with GOD and the WORD was God . To save us who could not save ourselves
from the sentence of death that has come upon all man since the garden .
And its about high time we kick the eucmenical harlot outta them churches and start pointing all TO JESUS again .

 

[Beebster]

However, when an Eternal Being takes on a body, and offers that body in death, that Eternal Being, though having given that body to death, remains eternal.

This is what Hebrews presents.

Hebrews 10:5-10 KJV
5) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6) In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7) Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The wording is very specific.

Much love!

Nowhere did I state that Christ did not exist prior to being born in the flesh.

What I said is that Christ was created and that he is not eternal.

Father and Son are not the same age no matter how much you try to spin it.

 

[GodsGrace]

It’s really not that hard. The word ‘god’ is theologically loaded. Once you accept that there are many lords and gods in Scripture, you realize these loaded words have more than one sense. Ken Ham used ‘back’ in multiple senses to illustrate.

The student, who sits in the back, hurt his back. He’ll be out for a while but he’ll be back to take back his #1 ranking.​

It’s silly to attempt to force the word (back) into one sense for each use for the proper interpretation of these 2 sentences. Another example is Ps 110:1 The LORD said to my lord. Putting aside capitalization, it is clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension that ’the lord’ is a different lord than ‘my lord.’

The (big) boss said to my boss …​

When the OT or the NT speak about GOD, LORD, JEHOVAH, YAHWEH - or whatever name you wish to give to the Almighty - it is always referring to the ONE AND ONLY GOD.

Ken Ham would be right if there were more than one God.
However, there is only One.

Such explicit differentiations are literally made 1,000’s of times in Scripture. Jesus said God is greater than him, knows more than him, submits to him, says what to say and how to say it by God and prays to God. These verses differentiate the two and demonstrate hierarchy. By contrast, God doesn’t say Jesus is greater than him. God doesn’t submit to Jesus. God doesn’t pray to Jesus, etc.

Here we are, on your post no. 333

The above is correct.
When Jesus was on earth, He was a man and was limited in what He allowed Himself to know.

Philippians 2:5-7
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

The 3-is-1 crowd want to disregard the clear, explicit and repeated differentiation all through Scripture and hold up an ambiguous expression like ‘with god and is god‘ as definitively dogmatic with no possible other way to interpret it.

My friend, Bill, has the bill and will not use his credit card but pay with a bill and coins.​

Those who believe in the Trinity are not a "crowd".
They are Christians who have accepted Christian theology which has existed from the time of Jesus.

There is absolutely differentiation.
God Son went to the cross
NOT God Father.

The Holy Spirit was sent to be a paracleet..
NOT the Son.

The 3 Persons of the Trinity are separate but of the same nature/essence.

The three "bills" you posted are NOT of the same essence/substance.
Bill is a human.
Bill is a piece of paper.
Bill is a method of payment.

FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT are all three GOD.

Also, there is Scripture to properly grasp verse 1. It is seen in verse 45.
Philip found Nathanael, a friend, and burst in with excitement:
Philip: We have found the One. Moses wrote about Him in the Law, all the prophets spoke of the day when He would come, and now He is here—His name is Jesus, son of Joseph the carpenter; and He comes from Nazareth.

What did Moses say about this one? That he’d be God incarnate? No. See Deutoronomy 18:15-18. No. No! NO! You can only interpret verse 1 through verse 14 not these other verses.

Doesn't verse 14 count?
Should we eliminate it from scripture?

John wrote John 1:1 and John 1:14 for a reason.
Verse 14 does not get eliminated because some do not understand the Trinity and grasp on to verse 45.

You neglected to read on - the bible does explain itself.

John 1:45-51
45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, "We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote -Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."
46 Nathanael said to him, "Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see."
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!"
48 Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
49 Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."
50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these."
51 And He said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see the heavens opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."


The Son of Man is indeed He that was awaited.
The Jews understood what this title meant, as we will see.


Mark 2:10
10 "But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins "-He said to the paralytic,

Only God can forgive sin.
Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of Man.


Matthew 17:22-23
22 And while they were gathering together in Galilee, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men;
23 and they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day." And they were deeply grieved.

Does a man know his own time of death and resurrection?

The Jews knew what SON OF MAN meant...
a prophecy from Daniel 7.
§The High Priest accused Jesus of blasphemy:


Mark 14:55-64
55 Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, and they were not finding any.
56 For many were giving false testimony against Him, but their testimony was not consistent.
57 Some stood up and began to give false testimony against Him, saying,
58 "We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands.' "
59 Not even in this respect was their testimony consistent.
60 The high priest stood up and came forward * and questioned Jesus, saying, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"
61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
63 Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, "What further need do we have of witnesses?
64 "You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?" And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.


It was at the words of Jesus I AM, AND YOU WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER AND COMING WITH THE CLOUDS....that the High Priest tore his clothes.

The High Priest knew that Jesus was calling Himself God.
THIS is the blasphemy.

 

[GodsGrace]

Did theologians change the definition of "theory" as well. I must have missed that.

Must we resort to sarcasm?
You don't know the meaning of PERSON.
You apparently aren't interested in finding out.
Learning one's faith is very important, IMO....

The beginning of?

Is this the best you can do Beebster?
What do YOU think The Beginning was referring to?

The Trinity has been accepted FROM THE BEGINNING.

I'm well aware of what the trinity is.

This is good. Now you just have to accept it as all Christians do.

The Jewish religion is monotheistic.
Islam is monotheistic.
Christianity believe in ONE GOD, but within that God are three Persons.

Again, the only way to make or say that the Holy Spirit is a person is by changing the definition of the word "person."

Simple:
Father tell us WHO He is.
God tells us WHAT He is.

No change.

You should realize that once you put "the Father" where he should be in that diagram, the whole triangle would disappear.

The Father should be smack dab in the center for he is, was and always will be greater than the Son.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:29)

Now if the Father "is greater than all" and the Holy Sipirit is a person as you claim then again, "the Father" should be in the center.

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

Again, "the Father" should be in the center.

Actually, there is a heirarchy to the Godhead.
Why?
Because the Son and the Holy Spirit PROCEED from the Father.
The correct term is SOURCE...but heirarchy is easily understood.

They proceed.
They are not created.

John 1:1 explains this really well.
IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD.
THE WORD WAS WITH GOD.
THE WORD WAS GOD.

The Word/Logos of God became flesh.

The Father is not in the center because they all have the same will.
The same power, the same substance/essence.
All 3 are God.

Your diagram shows that the Father is NOT Holy Spirit. Do you seriously believe that?

I believe what the NT teaches.
The NT teaches that there is One God.
It teaches that Jesus is God.
And then Jesus sends to us the Holy Spirit.

This is confirmed by Jesus:

Matthew 28:19
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Jesus gives to all three PERSONS the same exact importance/power - the same nature.

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. (Mat 1:18)

So, which "person" in your trinity is Jesus' Father?

You, as a Christian, should be able to answer your question.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sure but let's use a little common sense first.

If God the Father is eternal, which I believe he is and I assume you do as well, how can his Son be the same age as he is?

Now please, and I mean this sincerely, pay close attention:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Rom 10:9)

Dwell on that for awhile. And please think deeply about what I am about to say to you next:

Any being that dies, CANNOT be eternal.

We'll discuss the death of God
AFTER you reply to my question.

Scripture is required when discussing theology.

In your post no. 340, you stated:

"The titles Father and Son should make it obvious that God is a family.
The Father is Holy Spirit and he gives his spirit to whomever he will.
The first being he gave that spirit to was his Son Jesus Christ when he created him.
Jesus Christ is not eternal and the scriptures prove it."



Please provide scripture proving that Jesus is not eternal.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Exactly mark . THE WORD HAD TO BECOME FLESH
in order to save us . HE had to walk in the flesh of a man to overcome all things that man cannot .
Death had no hold on him . He overcame death and HE who had the power over death .
So all who do b eleive in HIM would not perish but have everlasting life .
No angel , no mere man , no prophet could have done what ONLY GOD can do .
With man this is impossible . BUT NOT WITH GOD .
The CREATOR of all that was would come to save creation b y doing what had to be done .
The spotless lamb of GOD , THE WORD become flesh . The Word was in the beginning
the word was with GOD and the WORD was God . To save us who could not save ourselves
from the sentence of death that has come upon all man since the garden .
And its about high time we kick the eucmenical harlot outta them churches and start pointing all TO JESUS again .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

You fell for the footnotes my friend .
I seen those footnotes in the newer bibles .
THEY lie to us all .
I quickly went around and took notice they tried to do this in other places too
that spoke of being damned , but were not able to get them all .
THEY LIE TO US , just like the so called greek scholar lied to the JW and came up with his own greek .
And you bought it . I told us to beware of men , but i did not warn us first
You need to return to basic childlike faith . If ever you had it to begin with .
We been being deceived for a long time my friend .
Do not buy their words , their greek , their so called wisdom that does nothing
but lead this people to the agenda of men . Or wail at thy end you surely will .
PREACH JESUS , not false love and false hope .

@amigo de christo