Overview time line chart of the 7 years

[Douggg]

Why would Jesus need to descend from heaven to resurrect the bodies of the dead in Christ to reunite their souls with their immortal bodies? He could do that from heaven. You're not addressing the reason why we would need to meet Jesus in the air first before being taken to heaven? Why wouldn't we just be taken directly to heaven if that's where we were going to end up instead of meeting Him in the air?

To fulfill Jesus's word and the Will of the God the Father. Jesus left this world to prepare a place in heaven for all who believe in Him. And is coming again, expressly for to take the resurrected/raptured believers to heaven, where he has prepared a place there where God the Father's throne is.

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Douggg]

This circling of the earth theory that you made up makes no sense

You are living in the U.S. There are Christians on the other side of the world. When Jesus comes for the rapture, will He be over the U.S. or on the other side of the world, say above China, for example ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

To fulfill Jesus's word and the Will of the God the Father. Jesus left this world to prepare a place in heaven for all who believe in Him. And is coming again, expressly for to take the resurrected/raptured believers to heaven, where he has prepared a place there where God the Father's throne is.

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

You continue to not answer the question. Why would He need to leave heaven and have us gathered to meet Him in the air first before taking us to heaven when we could just be gathered directly to heaven instead if that's where we were going to end up?

That makes no sense. The reason that He will descend from heaven and meet us in the air instead of just meeting us in heaven is because the heavens and the earth will be burned up when He comes and He will be spending eternity with us in the new heavens and new earth. Do you look for the new heavens and new earth in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming as Peter said believers should be doing?

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

We will not be going with Jesus to heaven when He comes again, we will be gathered before Him along with the rest of humanity to be judged (Matthew 25:31-46). And then we will inherit eternal life in the new heavens and new earth in the kingdom prepared for us from the foundation of the world.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are living in the U.S. There are Christians on the other side of the world. When Jesus comes for the rapture, will He be over the U.S. or on the other side of the world, say above China, for example ?

I'm not saying that He won't gather Christians from around the world. I'm saying He won't then take them to heaven. If we were going to heaven then He would just have us taken there directly without having to meet us in the air for no apparent reason first. Your doctrine that says we will be taken to heaven when the rapture occurs has no explanation for why we would be meeting Him in the air instead of meeting Him in heaven. You make His coming from heaven pointless. You have Him leaving heaven for no real reason and then going right back there. It makes no sense.

 

[Douggg]

I'm not saying that He won't gather Christians from around the world

You were criticizing my view that Jesus will circle the earth resurrecting and rapturing as He goes calling them up to meet him in the air.

So I am asking you - how do you think the resurrecting and rapturing, if simultaneous, for believers on opposite sides of the earth - will be able to meet Jesus in the air ?

I'm saying He won't then take them to heaven.

Where is the Father's house ? Where are the mansions in the Father's house ?

If we were going to heaven then He would just have us taken there directly without having to meet us in the air for no apparent reason first.

God is in charge, not you. The bible does not say Jesus is going call believers up to (the third) heaven, from (the third) heaven.

Did you not read the verses in John 14:2-3 ? Jesus said what he is going to do.

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You were criticizing my view that Jesus will circle the earth resurrecting and rapturing as He goes calling them up to meet him in the air.

So I am asking you - how do you think the resurrecting and rapturing, if simultaneous, for believers on opposite sides of the earth - will be able to meet Jesus in the air ?

I explained what I had a problem with in your view and it's not that you see Jesus circling the earth to meet believers in the air. I made it clear that my problem with your view is the idea that we will then be taken to heaven. If we were going to heaven then we would just be taken directly there to meet Jesus rather than needlessly meeting Jesus in the air first.

Where is the Father's house ? Where are the mansions in the Father's house ?

Jesus is coming to us, not us to Him. So, He is bringing His Father's house to us. Once we meet Him in the air "thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). We will be with Him wherever He is and where He will be for eternity is in the new heavens and new earth.

God is in charge, not you.

LOL. Foolish statement. I never claimed to be in charge.

The bible does not say Jesus is going call believers up to (the third) heaven, from (the third) heaven.

Did you not read the verses in John 14:2-3 ? Jesus said what he is going to do.

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Read the text more carefully, Doug. Where will Jesus be receiving us unto Himself? In the air! Not in heaven! Where will He be when we meet Him? In the air! Not in heaven! Stop reading things into the text that aren't there. He will be "in the air" and we will be there, also, when we are caught up to Him there. Where we go from there is wherever the judgment takes place, as described in Matthew 25:31-46. That will not take place in heaven or on earth, since they will pass away when He comes (Matt 24:35-29, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Revelation 20:11).

 

[Douggg]

Jesus is coming to us, not us to Him. So, He is bringing His Father's house to us.

What ? Where in the bible does it say Jesus is bringing His Father's house to us ?

We will be with Him wherever He is and where He will be for eternity is in the new heavens and new earth.

The new heavens and new earth is not until after the millennial rule of Jesus on this present earth. And after the Great White Throne Judgement.

Read the text more carefully, Doug. Where will Jesus be receiving us unto Himself? In the air! Not in heaven!

In the air, to be taken to the third heaven. where the mansions are.

 

[ewq1938]

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I will come again,

(Location is Earth)

and receive you unto myself;

(Location is Earth)

that where I am,

(Location is Earth)

there ye may be also

(Location is Earth)

Not one single word about going back to heaven.

 

[Douggg]

I will come again,

(Location is Earth)

and receive you unto myself;

(Location is Earth)

that where I am,

(Location is Earth)

there ye may be also

(Location is Earth)

Not one single word about going back to heaven.

Where is God the Father's house that Jesus went to ?

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What ? Where in the bible does it say Jesus is bringing His Father's house to us ?

That's my conclusion based on what I see taught in scripture. It's implied. Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is bringing us to heaven after we meet Him in the air? Nowhere. That's what you conclude based on how you interpret other scripture. So, we both are coming to our conclusions based on our overall understanding. There is no scripture which states explicitly what happens after we meet Jesus in the air. It's certainly not stated in the passage that tells us that we will be meeting Him in the air.

The new heavens and new earth is not until after the millennial rule of Jesus on this present earth. And after the Great White Throne Judgement.

Jesus will not be ruling physically on this earth. That's what the Pharisees expected the Messiah to do as well and they were mistaken. His kingdom did not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (not worldly - John 18:36). Scripture teaches that when He comes again at the end of the age He will deliver His kingdom to the Father, not a thousand years later as you believe.

1 Corinthians 5:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

Matthew 13:40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

In the air, to be taken to the third heaven. where the mansions are.

Wrong. That's not taught anywhere in scripture. You just make that assumption. You do understand that our eternal destiny is not heaven, but rather is the new heavens and new earth, don't you? He will essentially be bringing heaven to us when He comes and renews the heavens and the earth, resulting in the new heavens and new earth.

Scripture teaches that the new heavens and new earth are what we should be looking for in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming, not an earthly millennial kingdom, as you believe.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.w heavens and new earth.

Scripture does not teach two future comings of Christ, as you believe. He will only descend from heaven once in the future and we will all be caught up to meet Him in the air at that time while He delivers His wrath upon unbelievers while burning up the earth and regenerating it into the form of the new earth.

 

[Douggg]

That's my conclusion based on what I see taught in scripture. It's implied. Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is bringing us to heaven after we meet Him in the air? Nowhere. That's what you conclude based on how you interpret other scripture. So, we both are coming to our conclusions based on our overall understanding. There is no scripture which states explicitly what happens after we meet Jesus in the air. It's certainly not stated in the passage that tells us that we will be meeting Him in the air.


Jesus will not be ruling physically on this earth. That's what the Pharisees expected the Messiah to do as well and they were mistaken. His kingdom did not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (not worldly - John 18:36). Scripture teaches that when He comes again at the end of the age He will deliver His kingdom to the Father, not a thousand years later as you believe.

1 Corinthians 5:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

Matthew 13:40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


Wrong. That's not taught anywhere in scripture. You just make that assumption. You do understand that our eternal destiny is not heaven, but rather is the new heavens and new earth, don't you? He will essentially be bringing heaven to us when He comes and renews the heavens and the earth, resulting in the new heavens and new earth.

Scripture teaches that the new heavens and new earth are what we should be looking for in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming, not an earthly millennial kingdom, as you believe.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.w heavens and new earth.

Scripture does not teach two future comings of Christ, as you believe. He will only descend from heaven once in the future and we will all be caught up to meet Him in the air at that time while He delivers His wrath upon unbelievers while burning up the earth and regenerating it into the form of the new earth.

Jesus will be physically present here on earth ruling the nations with a rod of iron during the millennium. As Jesus stated in Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Jesus will not be restricted to this earth and will travel back and forth to the third heaven during the millennium..

Where do you plan on being when this present earth and it's heaven is destroyed in Revelation 20:11 right before the Great White Throne judgment?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus will be physically present here on earth ruling the nations with a rod of iron during the millennium.

No, He will not. He will be destroying the heathen with His rod of iron when He comes.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

His rod of iron is clearly identified with destruction of the heathen, not ruling over them on the earth the way you imagine.

As Jesus stated in Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Jesus will not be restricted to this earth and will travel back and forth to the third heaven during the millennium..

You are completely ignoring the passages that show what Him ruling with a rod of iron entails. Destruction.

Where do you plan on being when this present earth and it's heaven is destroyed in Revelation 20:11 right before the Great White Throne judgment?

Ask your questions more clearly. Are you asking where I plan to be just before this present earth and heaven are destroyed or after they are destroyed?

 

[Douggg]

No, He will not. He will be destroying the heathen with His rod of iron when He comes.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

You missed this part (in red and underlined) of Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Jesus will have just destroyed the armies that have gathered to make war on Him and His army in Revelation 19:19-21.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

After breaking the armies gathered to make war on Him and His army of heaven with a rod of iron (figure of speech), Jesus will continue to deal with the nations ruling them with a rod of iron (figure of speech) for the millennium. No dictatorships, wars, or persecutions during that time.

 

[Douggg]

Are you asking where I plan to be just before this present earth and heaven are destroyed or after they are destroyed?

Where will you be right before this present earth and it's heaven destroyed in Revelation 20:11 ? Are you going to be on this earth and destroyed with it ?

Or in the third heaven, where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for believers ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You missed this part (in red and underlined) of Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

I missed nothing. Are you trying to play games? I guess I can say that you missed this part.

Psalm 2:9 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

And you missed this..

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

And this...

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

And this...

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

And this...

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [a]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

And this...

Revelation 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

And on and on it goes. Where it stops, nobody knows.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where will you be right before this present earth and it's heaven destroyed in Revelation 20:11 ?

On the earth if it happens in my lifetime. Otherwise, my body will be in a grave and my soul and spirit will be in heaven.

Are you going to be on this earth and destroyed with it ?

No, I will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air just before that happens and so will you.

Or in the third heaven, where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for believers ?

He is preparing the place there and will bring it to us. Otherwise, there is no point in meeting Him in the air. How many times do I have to tell you this? You have NO explanation for Him leaving heaven only to go right back there again. He is only going to descend from heaven once in the future, not twice as you imagine.

 

[Douggg]

He is preparing the place there and will bring it to us.

No, it does not say that. The text says he will come again and receive us unto himself.

 

[ewq1938]

Where is God the Father's house that Jesus went to ?

Heaven but you are ignoring that Jesus spoke of his second coming and said where he IS is where we would be. That's still Earth not heaven.

Before the second coming ppl died and went to heaven to those mansions but after the second coming that is no longer happening.

 

[Douggg]

Heaven but you are ignoring that Jesus spoke of his second coming and said where he IS is where we would be. That's still Earth not heaven.

Before the second coming ppl died and went to heaven to those mansions but after the second coming that is no longer happening.

Jesus did not say second coming in the text. He said he "will come again" for the express purpose of receiving believers unto Himself.

Differently, at Jesus's second coming, He will execute judgment on the armies gathered to make war on Him and His army of heaven. Revelation 19 says nothing about Jesus receiving believers unto Himself.

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus did not say second coming in the text. He said he "will come again" for the express purpose of receiving believers unto Himself.

He did speak of the second coming. Don't nitpick when you are incorrect.

Differently, at Jesus's second coming, He will execute judgment on the armies gathered to make war on Him and His army of heaven. Revelation 19 says nothing about Jesus receiving believers unto Himself.

Because it happened in the clouds where he descends from.

John 14:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also

That's still receiving us at the Earth and nothing about taking people anywhere else. You are inserting a return to heaven into the verses. You need to learn what Eisegesis is.