Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[Button]

You may need to do a serious reading of the Book of Hebrews to see how the Sabbath fits into the Christian life. Especially the part where our rest in Christ through He being our Great High Priest is what the Saturday Sabbath pointed to. Once we enter our rest in Christ, we no longer need to observe the Sabbath, because it has been fulfilled in Christ. If there is insistence on following the Saturday Sabbath as a rule of law, then there is no acknowledgment in the person that they have entered into their rest in Christ. Can't have Christ and the Law at the same time.

When one enters into their rest in Christ, they no longer kill, steal, lie, blaspheme or look at people with lust. They no longer fulfill the lusts of the flesh, but have the fruit of the Spirit in them.

I believe those who are opposed to the Sabbath should follow your instructions.

 

[Button]

Wouldnt you say ''these commandments'' are the commands Christ is teaching in the beatitudes?

The Beatitudes

• “Blessed are the poor in spirit, ...
• Blessed are those who mourn, ...
• Blessed are the meek, ...
• Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, ...
• Blessed are the merciful, ...
• Blessed are the pure in heart, ...
• Blessed are the peacemakers, ...
• Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

 

[Brakelite]

No, it would be the persons fault for not looking to Christ and trusting him, letting himself be distracted from what he should be doing. If you are looking to Christ and trusting him, you cannot at the same time be seeking to fulfill the desires of the flesh, it is one or the other

How can you state such with a straight face? You blithely adopt that truth and apply it to yourself, but deny any such possibility that others have done so. What you say above is truth. But then you manipulate the whole context by claiming that same Christ who you claim is leading you is not leading others when He directs them to His law and they choose to obey Him because they love Him? To sustain that argument you claim the law that is in you today is different to the law that Jeremiah promised would be in you, and was affirmed in Hebrews. You have spent our entire discussion criticizing sabbath keepers, but have not offered one iota of evidence for your refusal to obey God's 4th commandment, except to say, "I don't feel convicted to obey, therefore the 4th commandment does not exist".
That is basically your entire foundation for criticizing sabbath keeping. Your feelings. Not a very solid foundation.

 

[saved by grace 101]

How can you state such with a straight face? You blithely adopt that truth and apply it to yourself, but deny any such possibility that others have done so. What you say above is truth. But then you manipulate the whole context by claiming that same Christ who you claim is leading you is not leading others when He directs them to His law and they choose to obey Him because they love Him? To sustain that argument you claim the law that is in you today is different to the law that Jeremiah promised would be in you, and was affirmed in Hebrews. You have spent our entire discussion criticizing sabbath keepers, but have not offered one iota of evidence for your refusal to obey God's 4th commandment, except to say, "I don't feel convicted to obey, therefore the 4th commandment does not exist".
That is basically your entire foundation for criticizing sabbath keeping. Your feelings. Not a very solid foundation.

It is such a pity you are stuck in an old covenant mindset, you cannot have what is available to believers:
God told Moses the Israelites were a stiff necked heathen people who would soon desert him when they reached the promised land. It is not surprising then they were instructed to set aside one day a week to meditate on God’s goodness and kindness to them. But they had to be instructed to do it.


Under the new covenant, our hearts have been softened, we have the indwelling Holy Spirit. We have been born again of the spirit and are new creations. Every single day born again Christians instinctively meditate on God’s kindness to them by sending His son to die for them, and every day, we are grateful for it.

The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in Christians today seven days a week.
Im afraid you know nothing of spirit filled christianity, Paul did:

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind Rom14:5

I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. Verse14

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. ALL(ALL) food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. Verse20
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Col2:16&17

 

[Button]

Yes sir...some of these comments certainly do remind me of Matthew 5:19 when Jesus teaches that we are not to teach others to sin - break commandments.

I understand what some mean when they say that we obey God out of love.
I agree with this.

But when it stops there and then they start fiddling with the commandments, I've learned this: .....
Sooner or later they'll state that it's not really necessary to obey the commandments...Jesus died to forgive all our sins.
Or, they'll say that we need do nothing after salvation - in fact, it's a sin to try to help God because our good deeds are as filthy rags.

So now I've become very cautious when I hear that we work out our salvation with ONLY love.
Obedience is necessary.
God does not make requests.

I would wonder when someone follows that path you're referring to.

Are they really in Christ? Or,are they thinking, once they've said they accept Christ, they'll go to Heaven no matter how they behave?

And is that why they argue, discipline and right behavior isn't necessary?

 

[saved by grace 101]

Sooner or later they'll state that it's not really necessary to obey the commandments...Jesus died to forgive all our sins.

There is a well known case of a businessman dreading going away on business trips and leaving his family behind, for every time he did so he was addicted to watching porn on his laptop. One day he entered a church, the minister was speaking of Christ dying for all our sins, past, present and future, the man dared to believe it and went on his way.
What did such belief result in, the man deciding to sin as much as he liked?
No! A short time later he was completely delivered of watching porn on his laptop(Rom6:14)
There is a way that seems right to the rational mind of man, and there is spiritual truth, the rational mind in and of itself cannot comprehend

 

[Brakelite]

And that comment shows how little discernment you have.

Answered in response to...

If the letter kills and condemns at all, it kills and condemns those who refuse to obey that letter. Obedience does not bring death.

Which raises a very important question. What shuts people out of heaven? Is it the observance of the Sabbath, or Sunday, or neither? No, none of the above. Then what is it that shuts people out of heaven? Disobeying God. Does that apply to Christians? Yes, absolutely, in fact, Christians are given more grace and insight into God's will for them than anyone else, but along with that comes greater responsibility.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Answered in response to...

Which raises a very important question. What shuts people out of heaven? Is it the observance of the Sabbath, or Sunday, or neither? No, none of the above. Then what is it that shuts people out of heaven? Disobeying God. Does that apply to Christians? Yes, absolutely, in fact, Christians are given more grace and insight into God's will for them than anyone else, but along with that comes greater responsibility.

I have THREE TIMES given you scripture from the new covenant era that plainly states ALL food is clean, you must ignore it. I have THREE TIMES given you scripture from the new covenant era showing we are not now obligated to follow a set Saturday sabbath, you must ignore that too!! Just as, I have many times pointed out to you, if you were correct, gentile converts were given a licence to sin by the Jerusalem church. You have also twice been shown the spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in born again believers seven days a week. As you have NO scripture from the new covenant ere that states we MUST obey a set Saturday sabbath, I have the scripture concerning the new covenant and you do not!
Once again, you have an old covenant mindset. The old covenant could be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit. The new covenant cannot properly be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit opening our eyes to it.
Two different paths, and never the twain shall meet. Back to Rom7:6
And I must sadly repeat, because you backed the wrong horse you do not know of spirit filled christianity, if you did, you would not be making the comments you are making now

 

[GodsGrace]

I would wonder when someone follows that path you're referring to.

Are they really in Christ? Or,are they thinking, once they've said they accept Christ, they'll go to Heaven no matter how they behave?

And is that why they argue, discipline and right behavior isn't necessary?

I'm not sure.
It could be that some think they just have to PROCLAIM the name of Jesus and they'll be saved.
Maybe that proclamation is not sincere.
Maybe they think God cannot see their heart.

James said to be a doer and not only a hearer.
Jesus said to act on His words.
Jesus said to do the will of the Father.

Yes,
They think that behavior is not necessary because they've called on the name of the Lord and believe that this will be sufficient.

Would you agree?

 

[saved by grace 101]

I'm not sure.
It could be that some think they just have to PROCLAIM the name of Jesus and they'll be saved.
Maybe that proclamation is not sincere.
Maybe they think God cannot see their heart.

James said to be a doer and not only a hearer.
Jesus said to act on His words.
Jesus said to do the will of the Father.

Yes,
They think that behavior is not necessary because they've called on the name of the Lord and believe that this will be sufficient.

Would you agree?

Its a strange thing, but whether outside of the internet or in it, it is always the same, those who keep stating you MUST obey God's laws/TC can casually transgress those laws in a way I have never been able to do so. Yes, I can commit sin, the same as we all do, but NOT without conscience, or as casually as those do who insist the law MUST be obeyed

 

[GodsGrace]

There is a well known case of a businessman dreading going away on business trips and leaving his family behind, for every time he did so he was addicted to watching porn on his laptop. One day he entered a church, the minister was speaking of Christ dying for all our sins, past, present and future, the man dared to believe it and went on his way.
What did such belief result in, the man deciding to sin as much as he liked?
No! A short time later he was completely delivered of watching porn on his laptop(Rom6:14)
There is a way that seems right to the rational mind of man, and there is spiritual truth, the rational mind in and of itself cannot comprehend

Did he stop doing what he was doing?

Then he was doing the will of the Father.

He did not have the POWER to stop before calling out to God.

Do you know any businessman that claims to be Christian and claims to have called out to God and persists in whatever sin he may be addicted to?

Or do you know any businessman that comes to God and then returns to his sinful behavior?

There are many examples in the Christian life.
One thing is for sure:
Jesus said to obey Him.

Some do it out of love.
Some do it out of fear.
But those that do it are the ones that are doing the will of the Father.

Those that do NOT obey, are living against the teaching of Christ.
And THIS is the point that must be made....

NOT the reason any particular person obeys.

You keep bring up the NC.
I've stated to you that every covenant demands obedience, including the New Covenant.
You never replied to that either.

 

[GodsGrace]

Its a strange thing, but whether outside of the internet or in it, it is always the same, those who keep stating you MUST obey God's laws/TC can casually transgress those laws in a way I have never been able to do so. Yes, I can commit sin, the same as we all do, but NOT without conscience, or as casually as those do who insist the law MUST be obeyed

Once again you pass judgment.
How do YOU know how anyone feels when they trangress the law?

Why not stick to doctrine and theology and stop telling persons on these threads what they do
or how they feel about it?

 

[saved by grace 101]

Did he stop doing what he was doing?

Then he was doing the will of the Father.

He did not have the POWER to stop before calling out to God.

Do you know any businessman that claims to be Christian and claims to have called out to God and persists in whatever sin he may be addicted to?

Or do you know any businessman that comes to God and then returns to his sinful behavior?

There are many examples in the Christian life.
One thing is for sure:
Jesus said to obey Him.

Some do it out of love.
Some do it out of fear.
But those that do it are the ones that are doing the will of the Father.

Those that do NOT obey, are living against the teaching of Christ.
And THIS is the point that must be made....

NOT the reason any particular person obeys.

You keep bring up the NC.
I've stated to you that every covenant demands obedience, including the New Covenant.
You never replied to that either.

You're not expecting a reply are you? You do not understand the new covenant. I could place scripture before you, ask you to explain it and I would get no reply, for you do not like to answer questions put to you. Anyone can make any statement they like, but...

 

[saved by grace 101]

Once again you pass judgment.
How do YOU know how anyone feels when they trangress the law?

Why not stick to doctrine and theology and stop telling persons on these threads what they do
or how they feel about it?

Oh Ive seen it, in you and others whether in the flesh or on the internet. Correct judgements are right to make

 

[GodsGrace]

I have THREE TIMES given you scripture from the new covenant era that plainly states ALL food is clean, you must ignore it. I have THREE TIMES given you scripture from the new covenant era showing we are not now obligated to follow a set Saturday sabbath, you must ignore that too!! Just as, I have many times pointed out to you, if you were correct, gentile converts were given a licence to sin by the Jerusalem church. You have also twice been shown the spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in born again believers seven days a week. As you have NO scripture from the new covenant ere that states we MUST obey a set Saturday sabbath, I have the scripture concerning the new covenant and you do not!
Once again, you have an old covenant mindset. The old covenant could be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit. The new covenant cannot properly be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit opening our eyes to it.
Two different paths, and never the twain shall meet. Back to Rom7:6
And I must sadly repeat, because you backed the wrong horse you do not know of spirit filled christianity, if you did, you would not be masking the comments you are making now

Because you state something THREE TIMES does not make it right.

Maybe you should try to absorb what others are telling you.

And I've NEVER received a reply to this question yet....
You also have not replied.

Again:

AFTER salvation, are we required to obey God?

 

[GodsGrace]

You're not expecting a reply are you? You do not understand the new covenant. I could place scripture before you, ask you to explain it and I would get no reply, for you do not like to answer questions put to you. Anyone can make any statement they like, but...

Maybe you just don't like the replies?

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh Ive seen it, in you and others whether in the flesh or on the internet. Correct judgements are right to make

YOU know how I feel when I sin?

Most interesting indeed.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Because you state something THREE TIMES does not make it right.



And I've NEVER received a reply to this question yet....




AFTER salvation, are we required to obey God?

So if I quote the plain words of scripture three times what is written in it does not make it right?
Youve never received a reply to your question. Lol, you won't answer any questions I've asked you, you just start bearing false witness in order to deflect away from answering. But I will answer it, same way Lizbeth answered it to you
Under the OC you MUST
Under the new covenant, you WANT to obey.
It is how you obey you do not understand

 

[saved by grace 101]

Maybe you just don't like the replies?

Your spiritual knowledge is poor, that is what I understand from your replies

 

[GodsGrace]

@saved by grace 101

YOU posted to ME.

And I REPLIED.

YOU did not.

Perhaps you'd like to try again?

Here is post no. 431 to which you DID NOT reply:


Did he stop doing what he was doing?

Then he was doing the will of the Father.

He did not have the POWER to stop before calling out to God.

Do you know any businessman that claims to be Christian and claims to have called out to God and persists in whatever sin he may be addicted to?

Or do you know any businessman that comes to God and then returns to his sinful behavior?

There are many examples in the Christian life.
One thing is for sure:
Jesus said to obey Him.

Some do it out of love.
Some do it out of fear.
But those that do it are the ones that are doing the will of the Father.

Those that do NOT obey, are living against the teaching of Christ.
And THIS is the point that must be made....

NOT the reason any particular person obeys.

You keep bring up the NC.
I've stated to you that every covenant demands obedience, including the New Covenant.
You never replied to that either.