Zao is life
Well-Known Member
You cannot grasp anything because you are a scoffer who scoffs at the words and teaching of Christ and His apostles and the prophets before them. So everything is a contradiction to you.
Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.
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You cannot grasp anything because you are a scoffer who scoffs at the words and teaching of Christ and His apostles and the prophets before them. So everything is a contradiction to you.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
If Marks is truly as honest as he claims, he will confront the truth of #796 and Romans 4:17. If not, he will fall back on his own assumptions.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
You do not believe you have a soul so what's the point talking to a soulless scoffer?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
On one hand, you claim that David’s soul is alive with God today, yet you cannot accept the Apostles’ teaching that his entire being died and was buried. Everything concerning David that is with God exists only in the Father’s mind, to be raised on the last day.
That's OK, I know the passages. The truth is clear in Scripture, we live in Him, and that doesn't change just because our bodies die. Jesus made a very clear declaration addressing this very thing, several, in fact, and the Apostles wrote nothing to change Jesus' teaching, only to reinforce it.
Much love!
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
You do not understand the Bible teaching on soul which is your issue not mine.
I need to head off but I leave you all with the souls reality!
Enjoy...
The Soul Defined:
- Hebrew: Nephesh | Greek: Psuche
- Expresses life, being, or personhood, not immortality.
- Present in all living things.
- Job 12:10 – the soul of every living thing.
- Gen 1:20 – moving creature that has life.
- Gen 1:30 – everything in which there is life.
- Num 31:28 – one soul of persons and animals.
- Gen 2:7 – man became a living soul.
- Gen 14:21; Gen 36:6; 1 Chron 5:21 – references to souls as people.
- Psa 105:18; Isa 46:2; Lev 22:11 – soul as life of a person.
- Gen 46:18,26; Exo 1:5 – counting of souls (people) in families.
- Gen 12:13 – soul shall live.
- 1 Pet 3:20 – eight souls saved by water.
- Acts 27:22 – no loss of life (psuche).
- Psa 56:13; 116:8; 33:19 – delivered from death.
- Isa 55:3; 1 Pet 1:9; Jer 38:17,20 – soul preserved, lives.
- Deut 14:26; Exo 12:16; Num 11:5,6; Deut 12:20,15,21; Num 21:5 – soul has desire for food.
- Isa 29:8; Lam 1:11; Prov 6:30; Prov 27:7; Job 33:20; 1 Sam 2:16; Lev 17:10,12; Lev 7:20,25,27; Luke 12:19,20 – soul’s appetite, pleasure, and required sustenance.
- Lev 7:21; Num 19:11; Gen 35:18; Judg 16:30; Num 23:10; Job 7:15; Job 31:39; Job 33:22; Psa 78:50; Job 36:14; Eze 18:4,20; Psa 49:8,19; Matt 16:25,26; Rev 16:3 – soul experiences death or perishes.
- Josh 11:11; 10:32; Jer 40:14; Jer 4:10; Eze 22:25,27; Jer 2:34; Rev 20:4; Eze 13:18; Acts 3:23; Isa 10:18; Matt 10:28 – souls can be destroyed, punished, or beheaded.
- Psa 89:48; Psa 49:15; Job 33:18; Psa 30:3; Psa 86:13; Isa 38:17 – God can redeem or deliver the soul from death, the grave, or corruption.
- Isa 53:10-12 – Christ’s soul as offering, travail, and poured out unto death.
- Matt 26:38 – soul sorrowful unto death.
- Acts 2:31; Psa 16:10 – soul not left in hell (hades).
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
I want to reword this slightly for truths sake:
That's OK, I know the passages. The truth is clear in Scripture, we live in Him (by faith in His Promises), and that doesn't change just because our bodies die (correction: we die completely). Jesus made a very clear declaration addressing this very thing, several, in fact, and the Apostles wrote nothing to change Jesus' teaching, only to reinforce it. Much love!
Now you would have hope in the resurrection!
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
You scoff at and twist scripture and then imagine you understand what you say others do not understand - which is your issue not mine.
I don't expect the vegetables in my garden to understand how some who have LIFE [zoe] while they are ALIVE [zao] have not received ETERNAL LIFE [zoe aionios] but some have received that eternal life, and what the difference is between being ALIVE [zao] forever and being given eternal LIFE [zoe] which is its only source. Nor do I expect my vegetables to understand anything about IN whom that eternal life exists that is GIVEN to some.
Nor do you understand. You only scoff at and twist the teaching of the author and giver of life - who is the only source of being alive - and the teaching of His appointed apostles.
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Hillsage
Well-Known Member
I will start simply: Hopefully you can return the favor.
ROM 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
What's the difference between "Immortality" and "eternal life" in the above verse?
Correct. His body and soul were in the tomb/grave for 3 days and his spirit he sent to the Father. Then that same 'anointed/Christo spirit' went and 'preached to the spirits in 'prison/tataru/hell' who did not believe in the days (antedeluvian age) before the flood.
1PE 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit ('spirit of Christ' which WAS in Jesus THE Christ from birth until his body/soul in-tombed death). (And also the same 'spirit'): 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Wrong. I don't believe that. Never have.
I'll just stop here. Simply too much diatribe to deal with. Sorry.
Matthew 22:31-32 KJV
31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Jesus said differently, and I'm listening to Him.
John 11:25-26 KJV
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
NOTE: Only One Truth Spoken by GOD is suffiient for us to KNOW that JESUS was Speaking that A/I/J and all who believed were ALIVE = Matthew 17:3
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
(Too much drivel and gibberish to quote)
Greek words:
Sarx: The flesh.
Soma: The body.
Soul: Psuche.
Pneuma: Spirit.
"For the life [Hebrew: nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [nephesh] | Greek: psuchḗ]." (Leviticus 17:11).
The Hebrew uses the same words for the life of the flesh and the soul of the flesh.
The Greek New Testament uses the word psychḗ (or psuche, pronounced sue-kay) interchangeably for
(a) the soul.
(b) the mind
(c) the (temporal) life of the person for example:
"He that loveth his life [psuche] shall lose it; and he that hateth his life [psuche] in this world shall keep it unto life [zōḗ] eternal." (John 12:25).
Here's the list of verses.
The reader is able to look at the list and take his / her teaching from scripture (all verses quoted in that list) and not from those who scoff at and twist scripture.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
They did not appear IN THEIR RESURRECTED BODIES.
It's pointless saying to me that you understand when I know you only think you understand because all you are understanding is the conflation OF LIFE with LIVING | BEING ALIVE that is made in the TRANSLATION of the Lord's teaching and His apostles' teaching.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Which is NOT the one truth spoken by God that you are teaching - it's the CHANGING OF THE MEANING - FOUND IN THE TRANSLATION - THROUGH THE CONFLATION OF TWO DIFFERENT CONCEPTS MENTIONED AND TAUGHT BY THE LORD AND HIS APOSTLES that you are believing, quoting and teaching.
- which is INSUFFICIENT to understand what Jesus SAID AND MEANT when talking to the Sadducess and when talking to Martha because it is DEFICIENT.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Did Moses and Elijah appear to JESUS and speak with Him?
Yes they did, for they are Alive in God = Just as JESUS Said in Matt 22:31
Right now they are in Heaven waiting for the Day when the LORD Returns with them for the First Resurrection = 1 Thess 3:13
And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Tell me why Jesus told Martha that her brother - who had DIED - would rise again (from the dead) and why He said He is the
1. Resurrection (0F THE DEAD); and the
2. LIFE [ZOE] - which is of God and in the Word of God (John 1:4) AND WHICH CHRIST ALONE POSSESSES IN HIMSELF (John 5:26) - but IN CHRIST is GIVEN to us (we do not and never will possess LIFE [ZOE] IN OURSELVES);
and that the one who believes in Him - even though that one DIES, yet He shall:
3. LIVE | BE ALIVE [ZAO] again
- just after Jesus told Martha that her brother who had died will rise again from the dead because HE (Jesus) is both the resurrection and the LIFE which God alone and the Son of God alone possesses in Himself (John 1:4; John 5:26).
Compare it with IN WHOM we are told in scripture we have been GIVEN eternal life [ZOE AIONIOS] - IT'S NOT THE SAME AS BEING ZAO [ALIVE] FOREVER [IMMORTAL] (1John 5:11)
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It does not say that.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
This day of the Lord, in the next couple verses called the day of God, is not the second coming but a special day God does something BIG, which is the burning of the old Earth and Heaven, and the creation of the NHNE. It happens AFTER the GWTJ, Rev 21:1. Neither satan nor any of the unsaved exist on the new Earth which means they are all in the LOF before the old is burned and replaced by the new.
Terms like "day of the Lord" or similar are not solely used for the second coming, but are used any time God does something noteworthy.
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
To be ALIVE [ZAO] is to be ALIVE IN THE BODY.
Answer my questions in post #816.
IF Moses and Elijah were both taken ALIVE [ZAO] IN THEIR BODIES to heaven THEN they were ALIVE [ZAO] when they appeared with Jesus
AND
they were both given eternal LIFE [ZOE] IN CHRIST - EVEN BEFORE He died and rose again.
- but there is A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM AND ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB - WHO HAD ALL D-I-E-D AND WERE STILL D-E-A-D when Jesus told the Sadducess they would RISE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD because God is not the God of the D-E-A-D but of those who are A-L-I-V-E.
God is not the God of D-E-A-T-H but of L-I-F-E [ZOE] and of THOSE WHO ARE A-L-I-V-E.
AND THE SAME GOES FOR LAZARETH WHEN JESUS TOLD MARTHA HE WOULD RISE AGAIN FROM THE D-E-A-D AND WHOEVER BELIEVES IN JESUS - EVEN THOUGH HE D-I-E, that one who believes in Jesus would L-I-V-E [ZAO] again because JESUS IS the RESURRECTION and the L-I-F-E [ZOE].
God BREATHED L-I-F-E [ZOE] into Adam, and THAT IS WHY Adam became a L-I-V-I-N-G [ZAO] soul.
@David in NJ Stop conflating being alive [zao] forever with the life [zoe] that is the source of being alive [zao] where Jesus spoke to the Sadducees and where He spoke to Martha.
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
NOT BEFORE THE L-I-F-E [ZOE] THAT THEY HAVE BEEN G-I-V-E-N IN CHRIST (who alone possesses that life in Himself) HAS QUICKENED THEIR D-E-A-D BODIES AND THEY HAVE R-I-S-E-N FROM THE D-E-A-D AND ARE A-L-I-V-E [ZAO] again.
The New Covenant through Christ was ordained in heaven from before the foundation of the world. That's when God provided HIMSELF the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world. All the promises of God are 'yes' and 'amen', so according to promise whosoever from the beginning of creation to the sounding of the last trumpet believe on Messiah, The Christ promised by God belong to the New Covenant through the blood of the Lamb.
The first New Covenant promise given to mankind is found in Genesis.
Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
These words have been appropriately called the "Protevangelium," the first gospel. This passage tells us that though mankind, because of sin, will be burdened and persecuted by the great adversary of mankind, the seed of evil (Satan), the Seed (Christ) of life shall come and through Him the curse of death might come to all who believe on Him.
Why is Christ the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world if God had not prepared and ordained before creation the way/means for which mankind might be eternally saved through the Lamb slain?
Hebrews 11:39-40 (KJV) And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
The promise the Old Covenant saints had not received was a place, eternal in heaven. They weren't looking for an eternal home in the land of promise on this earth. They sought something far better! They died in faith waiting to receive the promises they knew of and were persuaded of them, and embraced them understanding the promises would not be found on this earth of which they saw themselves as strangers and pilgrims. The place they desired and had not yet received is an heavenly place where God hath prepared for them the holy city, New Jerusalem unto mount Sion the city of the living God. They believed and patiently waited to be the general assembly and church of the firstborn, being spirits of just men made perfect. And to Jesus the Mediator of the New Covenant which speak of better things that that of Abel.
Hebrews 11:9-10 (KJV) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Hebrews 11:13-16 (KJV) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
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