IF THERE IS JUST ONE CHURCH THEN WHO GETS HEAVEN?

[Doug]

Scripture never teaches a permanently heavenly body of Christ and a permanently earthly believing Israel

As far as Israel in your statement...........
Israel was promised the land FOREVER ...........[Genesis 17:8 KJV] "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
[Genesis 48:4 KJV] "And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee [for] an everlasting possession."

 

[Doug]

the only gospel of the kingdom that there is
THE absolute dire necessity to Have to BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
that GOD did rise him up from the dead .
Cause no ma tter what this generation wants to beleive
There will be many gentiles and jews wailing in the lake of f ire .
IT BE JESUS PREACHING TIME . AND HIS KINGDOM is not of this world .

The gospel of the kingdom was that the prophetic Davidic kingdom was at hand in which Israel would reign with Christ a thousand years.
Your gospel only preaches the resurrection, which is part of the gospel. Israel only had to believe that Jesus was raised to insure he would sit on David's throne in the kingdom................[Acts 2:30 KJV] "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;"
The gospel is also we have forgiveness by faith in his death and shed blood.................[Colossians 1:14 KJV] "In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:"
[1 Corinthians 15:1 KJV] "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;"
[1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV] "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain."
[1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV] "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"
[1 Corinthians 15:4 KJV] "And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

 

[Ezra]

All scripture is profitable....

not according to you... in your words there are certain scriptures that are not for us.. so then how can it be profitable if they do not pertain to us .. seriously Doug you keep digging your self in to a hole.. i fail to understand you? does the church you attend believe like this

 

[bdavidc]

Not left behind on earth.
Israel was promised the land FOREVER ...........[Genesis 17:8 KJV] "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
[Genesis 48:4 KJV] "And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee [for] an everlasting possession."

You keep changing definitions to preserve a split Scripture never makes.

Yes, “church” means assembly. Acts 7:38 uses it generically for Israel gathered at Sinai. But when Jesus said, “I will build my church” ~Matthew 16:18, He was not redefining Israel. He was speaking of something future He Himself would build, grounded on His death and resurrection. That church did not exist in Moses’ day, and Israel in the wilderness was never called Christ’s body.

You are also confusing revelation with existence. The mystery revealed to Paul was not that Christ suddenly acquired a body, but that believing Jews and Gentiles are united in one body in Christ. A mystery in Scripture is something previously hidden, not something previously nonexistent ~Ephesians 3:5–6. Paul never says the body did not exist before his ministry. He says the meaning and scope were revealed.

Jeremiah calling God Israel’s husband proves covenant language, not a separate salvific body. Israel’s marriage was national and covenantal. The church is not a covenant nation married under the law. Paul explicitly distinguishes the two by saying Christ is “the saviour of the body” ~Ephesians 5:23, and then defines that body as made of many members united in Christ ~1 Corinthians 12:12–13. You cannot turn covenant imagery into proof of two churches.

Your argument from Ephesians 1:10 fails for the same reason. “Gather together in one” does not require two redeemed bodies existing separately for years. Scripture says Christ already “hath made both one” ~Ephesians 2:14. The gathering is the consummation of what Christ accomplished at the cross, not the repair of a temporary divine split you are inserting into the text.

Your most serious error is this claim: believing Jews can be “in Christ” but not members of His body. Scripture does not allow that category. Paul says plainly, “So we, being many, are one body in Christ” ~Romans 12:5. He also says, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles” ~1 Corinthians 12:13. There is no biblical definition of “in Christ” that excludes union with His body.

Land promises to Israel do not create a second church either. God keeps His promises, but He does not save people in different bodies. Scripture says there is “one body, and one Spirit” ~Ephesians 4:4, and Christ reconciled both Jew and Gentile “unto God in one body by the cross” ~Ephesians 2:16.

You keep seeing two churches because you start with that conclusion and then force Scripture to fit it. Acts, the Epistles, and Christ Himself say otherwise. Stop dividing what God has made one.

 

[bdavidc]

It has to be determined who will be in the holy city.

This is the same error again. You are twisting Scripture to preserve a division God says He has already removed. You keep lifting Israel language out of context and forcing it to exclude believing Gentiles, even though Scripture says Christ “hath made both one” ~Ephesians 2:14 and that there is “one body” ~Ephesians 4:4. Revelation does not undo the cross or redivide what Christ united.

I will continue to reply so readers know this teaching is not biblical. Scripture stands. Your framework does not.

 

[Ezra]

so readers know this teaching is not biblical

pretty sure most can see this.. i fail to understand where he is coming from

 

[Doug]

not according to you... in your words there are certain scriptures that are not for us.. so then how can it be profitable if they do not pertain to us .. seriously Doug you keep digging your self in to a hole.. i fail to understand you? does the church you attend believe like this

I take it you cant answer those questions I posed to you

 

[Doug]

You keep seeing two churches because you start with that conclusion and then force Scripture to fit it. Acts, the Epistles, and Christ Himself say otherwise. Stop dividing what God has made one.

If there is one true church than the teachings of Jesus and the twelve and Paul are all for us.

[Matthew 28:19 KJV] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
[Matthew 28:20 KJV] "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."............the twelve were to teach the nations to observe ALL things he commanded them. The teachings of Jesus and the twelve are one and the same.

If there is only one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve apply to us. If this is so then some verses need to be addressed.

[Luke 12:33 KJV] "Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth."..........This verse would apply to whoever says there is one church. If there is one church then this command from Christ applies because ALL teachings and commands do.

[Matthew 24:14 KJV] "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."...........are you preaching the gospel of the kingdom? Are you preaching the prophetic kingdom on earth is at hand? Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and commanded the twelve to preach it. The gospel was the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth in which believing Israel will reign with Christ for a thousand years was at hand. It demanded repentance and water baptism. This command applies if there is one true church.

[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."..........If there is one true church then this command applies. To have sins forgiven (remitted) water baptism is required, otherwise sins aren't washed away.

[Matthew 6:14 KJV] "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
[Matthew 6:15 KJV] "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."........This teaching applies to the one true church. Ones sins can't be forgiven unless one forgives others. THIS COMMAND CAUSES A DILEMMA. The one true church requires us to apply all the teachings of Jesus and the twelve, but Paul is an apostle in the one church as well and his teachings and commands apply as well. Paul teaches we are forgiven ALL trespasses..........[Colossians 2:13 KJV] "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"...........

How do you reconcile this?. The twelve would have to teach we need to forgive to be forgiven. Paul teaches we have all forgiveness. Who's teaching on this do we follow? The way to reconcile this is to acknowledge there are two churches with different commands and teachings.

 

[Doug]

This is the same error again. You are twisting Scripture to preserve a division God says He has already removed. You keep lifting Israel language out of context and forcing it to exclude believing Gentiles, even though Scripture says Christ “hath made both one” ~Ephesians 2:14 and that there is “one body” ~Ephesians 4:4. Revelation does not undo the cross or redivide what Christ united.

I will continue to reply so readers know this teaching is not biblical. Scripture stands. Your framework does not.

I made quite a few points supported by scripture. Why not address them by refuting them with scripture as well

 

[Ezra]

I gave you scripture to support what I say what scripture refutes it?

if your going to hold to only Israel then the Bible is not for us........ understand we have had some en depth discussions and they been good.. but you are know switching to strange fire mode.. your answering with a question

 

[Ezra]

I made quite a few points supported by scripture. Why not address them by refuting them with scripture as well

how long is this going to go back and forth the ones in this has presented scripture. that backs up our point.. your case is lacking as nothing in scripture reads upon this rock i will build my 2 churches nor does peter say he will the church the Body of Christ he has built upon the foundation laid for THE church. no other foundation---


10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.


11 For no man can lay another foundation than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


12 Now if any man build upon this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,


13 every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall test every man’s work of what sort it is.


14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereon, he shall receive a reward.


15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as f

 

[Doug]

if your going to hold to only Israel then the Bible is not for us........ understand we have had some en depth discussions and they been good.. but you are know switching to strange fire mode.. your answering with a question

I gave you scripture and my commentaries in regard to the kingdom of heaven in post#101 and this is your response? No evaluation from scripture or comments on what I said? Twice I asked you to address 2 posts in regard to you saying there is one church and I asked you to comment on scripture in regard to then having to apply them to yourself and you have ignored them. I dont say you have to answer all comments, but I think these were pertinent to our discussion and your assertions.

 

[Doug]

how long is this going to go back and forth the ones in this has presented scripture. that backs up our point.. your case is lacking as nothing in scripture reads upon this rock i will build my 2 churches nor does peter say he will the church the Body of Christ he has built upon the foundation laid for THE church. no other foundation---


10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.


11 For no man can lay another foundation than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


12 Now if any man build upon this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,


13 every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall test every man’s work of what sort it is.


14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereon, he shall receive a reward.


15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as f

I dont follow your comments sorry
You mentioned Jesus said he would build his church. The body of Christ to reconcile heaven was a mystery so Jesus would not reveal anything about another church in his earthly ministry.

 

[Ezra]

I dont follow your comments sorry
You mentioned Jesus said he would build his church. The body of Christ to reconcile heaven was a mystery so Jesus would not reveal anything about another church in his earthly ministry.

were done you keep coming up with speculation there are many church members/denoms.. only one true Church . this has been hashed out so many times its like a shirt washed hundred times wearing thin. . this my last and only scripture i will post
Ephesians 5:27That he might present it to himself "a glorious church," not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


now please note the singular words A glorious CHURCH . no place in scripture is the words churches as in the Bride of Christ .. were not Mormons, i am through . only ONE bride