"True" Israel?

[brightfame52]

Israel. The descendant of Jacob.

Much love!

The Church

 

[Davy]

The Church, the Body of Christ Israel, are those whom God foreknew, His People. Rom 11:1-2a

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people[Israel] which he foreknew.

The casting away of the nation of israel was not God casting away His People Israel the Church, the Body of Christ, the remnant according to the election of grace. Remember Paul had just wrote in Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel[foreknew], which are of Israel[national:

Those whom He foreknew in Christ to be conformed to His Image, is the Israel the Body of Christ Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This verse Identifies Israel, no not the ethnic nation, but the people of God Israel, the Children of God Israel

You covered a little bit of Romans 11 in your post after that, so I assume... you realize God was specifically pointing to the Israelites with the following...

Rom 11:1-5
11 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 "Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life."

In the above, Paul is specifically pointing to God's chosen nation of Israelites, to those whom He preserved unto Himself. It is not about Gentiles, it's about the literal seed. (But only a remnant of them.)


4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

Paul was also pointing to those preserved elect of God's chosen among the Israelites with that above idea of "the election of grace". Today, since Christ's cross, it applies to BOTH believing Israel and believing Gentiles in regards to Christ's Church. But at the time of Elias (Greek for Elijah), the above verses 1-4 referred only... to God's chosen Israelites.

The whole Church of both believing Israel and believing Gentiles under Christ Jesus is the "election of grace" since Jesus' death and resurrection. In Romans 11:25-33 Apostle Paul revealed that when the fullness of the Gentiles is complete (at Christ's return), that is when God will remove the spiritual blindness ("spirit of slumber") He put upon the majority of the Jews, and then they will convert to Lord Jesus Christ. And Paul says God concluded them all in unbelief so that His mercy might be upon all.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm going to clarify something. National ethnic Israel was God's people while under the old covenant and it was by national covenant. However within that national covenant Israel was a remnant Israel the spiritual body of Christ, God's people He foreknew. That Israel will be conformed to the image of Christ. Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

So yes in a real sense national ethnic Israel was God's people for a time by national covenant! 2

 

[Davy]

So yes in a real sense national ethnic Israel was God's people for a time by national covenant! 2

You actually did not clarify the matter. When you put that "for a time" idea added to what you said, it automatically reversed what was said about Old Testament Israel.

Many brethren today don't study their Old Testament histories, so they are not aware that the title of JEW does not... apply to all Israelites born of the seed, regardless of whether they are 'chosen' or not. Here is how God's written Word separates the seed of old Israel into two separate nations...


AFTER... Solomon's days:
1. the "house of Judah", or "kingdom of Judah", or just "Judah", or just "Jerusalem", or "Aholibah" of Ezekiel 23.

(these were made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and a small remnant out of the northern ten tribes that refused the calf idols in the north, and instead went down to Jerusalem and sided with Judah and the rest of the JEWS there in JUDEA, which means the southern holy land. Jerusalem was their Capital city. The Jewish historian Josephus said that title 'Jew' comes from the sole tribe Judah, and is what those who returned to Jerusalem-Judea from the Babylon captivity called themselves. That title DID NOT apply to the other northern ten tribes).


2. the "house of Israel", or "kingdom of Israel", or "Joseph", or "Samaria", or "Ephraim", or "Aholah" of Ezekiel 23.

(these were made up of the northern ten tribes of Israel ONLY. They were NOT known by the title of JEW. Samaria in the northern holy land was their Capital city. Preachers today that refer to all Israelites as Jews show their Biblical illiteracy in The Old Testament histories when God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms. God made Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim "king of Israel" over the northern ten tribes, per 1 Kings 11. Judah and the Jews of the southern kingdom remained under Solomon's lineage from David.

The Biblical FACT... that Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim God called "king of Israel", when He gave him ten tribes to reign over in the northern holy land, shows that the name ISRAEL as a kingdom name, belongs with where the majority of the Israelite tribes are. And that means wherever the ten northern tribes of Israel are, even to this day.


3. Because Jeroboam, king of Israel at Samaria, setup two calf idols in the north to try and prevent the northern ten tribes from going to Jerusalem to worship, over time God eventually brought the kings of Assyria upon the northern ten tribe kingdom, and took all the ten northern tribes captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes.

(this captivity of the ten northern tribes happened about 120 years PRIOR to Judah's captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar. God had separated old Israel into two separate kingdoms first. And then He scattered the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel" next. This scattering of the northern ten tribes of the "house of Israel" is what the Book of Hosea is about. These NEVER... returned to the holy land, even to this day. They are still scattered today among the Gentiles.


4. Then the southern kingdom under Judah also began to fall away after the northern ten tribes had been removed, and God brought Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, upon the JEWS of the southern kingdom at Judea, and destroyed Solomon's temple and the city of Jerusalem, and took the majority of the Jews captive to Babylon. This happened about 120 years AFTER the ten tribes had already been gone. Only the "kingdom of Judah" had remained in the holy land after Israel (ten tribes) had been taken captive.

(The JEWS of the old southern kingdom call themselves Israelites also, because they are sons of Jacob whose new name God gave him was ISRAEL. That name always applies to ALL 12 tribes. But the title JEW does not, because it comes from the sole tribe Judah of the southern kingdom. Those Biblical names used that I listed for each separate kingdom means God has 'specific' prophecies for each house, or separate Israelite kingdom. Wrongly thinking they are all JEWS will confuse who God is giving those Bible prophecies to and about.

5. If one is already lost with this explanation of Old Testament history about God's split of old Israel into two separate kingdoms and nations, then it means you NEED to take time to do your Old Testament study, chapter by chapter, line upon line. Doing that helps prevent you getting sucked into a bunch of doctrines of men today that the Biblically illiterate push because they have not done their homework in all of God's Word either, so it's like the blind following the blind.

 

[Davy]

6. Now then, let's say one HAS... done their homework in study of The Old Testament history about God's split of old Israel into two separate kingdoms, and scattering each one to a different location at a different time.

The FACT... that the Ezekiel 37 prophecy about the joining of the two symbolic sticks that God told Ezekiel to write on, have YET to be joined, means God's Plan in final under Christ is to 'restore' the old kingdom of Israel in final. And that means putting the two separated kingdoms of Israel back together again, into one kingdom under Jesus Christ. This is why that Ezekiel 37 prophecy says the two kingdoms then will no more be "two nations". And in case you are not sure of what I am saying FROM that Scripture, here it is...

Ezek 37:15-22
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, "For Judah", and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, "For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim", and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, "Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?"

19 Say unto them, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in Mine hand.

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
KJV

At present time, the Jews do not have a kingdom in today's nation of Israel. And the Israelites that make up today's nation of Israel in the holy land are mainly of those old southern tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and some small remnants out of the northern ten tribes. The two sticks have NOT been joined back together yet today, for when that Ezekiel 37 prophecy happens it will be the OLD Israelite kingdom restored, WITH a King. Guess Who that King will be? If you said Jesus Christ, then that is correct.

So where... have the northern ten tribes gone? They made up the majority of Israelites originally. They are not there in the holy land anymore. Did God just write them off? (That's what the false Jews want us to think, because they want to steal God's Israel). God scattered the ten northern tribes among the Gentiles, which is where they still are today.

HOWEVER... God performed a major miracle using the scattered ten northern tribes of Israel. He scattered the ten tribes westward mainly, to Asia Minor and Europe, and they fulfilled the Genesis 35 prophecy to Jacob that his 'seed' would become "a nation, and a company of nations", which is the same prophecy given to his grandson Ephraim in Genesis 48 about his seed becoming "a multitude of nations". That is what happened in Asia Minor and Europe when The Gospel took hold there after Christ was rejected by the unbelieving Jews at Jerusalem. Just prior to The Gospel going to the ten tribes scattered to the West, they were doing the full Baal idol worship they forgot God for, which He scattered them for. This event is explained in the Book of Hosea about the scattering of the ten northern tribes of Israel. And Apostle Paul quoted to Roman Gentiles in the Church from the Book of Hosea, when it was originally written about, and to the ten tribes under Ephraim.

What this means is, God used... the ten lost tribes of Israel to setup the early foundation of Christ's Church in the West, for BOTH... believing Israelite, and believing Gentile, as ONE BODY in Christ Jesus.

That is why men's FALSE THEORY OF DISPENSATIONALISM goes directly... against God's written Word. Dispensationalism tries to DIVIDE God's Israel as separate from Christ's Church. The Bible does NO SUCH THING!

 

[brightfame52]

The Old Testament Saints are part of Christ Body the Church, or they will not partake of the resurrection in the Last day which they had an eye to. Christ is the firstfruits 1 Cor 15:12-23

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Jesus Christ is the resurrection Jn 11:24-25

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:

Paul testifies that the OT Fathers believed in the resurrection Acts 24:14-15

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 and have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Now the resurrection of the just, or Justified of all time is contingent upon being in Christ ! Its only in Him that all shall be made alive. That goes for King David, or the Philippian Jailor. 6

 

[brightfame52]

The Church, the Body of Christ is the Seed of Abraham, for its seen when we consider a couple of verses in Hebrews to start. Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

This no doubt refers to Christ as the " He that sanctifieth" and the " we who are sanctified" are His Body the Church, and they are of One or they are One. The Head and His Members are One 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Col 1:18

And he[Christ] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now lets look again in Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

So He became One when He took on the seed of Abraham in the flesh, He identified in the flesh with those He is the Head of, they also being the members of His Body.

Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And His Body the Church is Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.6

 

[Davy]

Now the resurrection of the just, or Justified of all time is contingent upon being in Christ ! Its only in Him that all shall be made alive. That goes for King David, or the Philippian Jailor. 6

Which is why we have this New Testament testimony by Peter about those back in The Old Testament...

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

Which the above was first prophesied in Isaiah about Christ's 1st coming...

Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
KJV


Which since Christ's 1s coming and His preaching The Gospel to those "spirits in prison", He led those who believed The Gospel out of that heavenly prison house...

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV


What that means is... like Jesus showed in Matt.10:28 about our soul continuing on to God when our flesh dies, our 'spirit' goes with our soul too, into the heavenly. Like Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5, to be absent from the body (flesh) is to be present with The Lord. This also supports how at the hour of Christ giving up the ghost on His cross, His resurrection happened and many saints in the graves arose and appeared to many in Jerusalem. It doesn't mean their flesh bodies literally rose from the ground. They had to have been in their spirit bodies when appearing in Jerusalem.

This proves what I have been teaching from God's Word about what happens when our flesh body dies, and what the idea of the resurrection is actually about regarding the "spiritual body" that Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, and... per what Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 teaches about where our flesh goes at death vs. where our spirit goes. It reveals that the old Jewish Soul Sleep tradition is false.

 

[brightfame52]

The True Israel, the Church are those people who have Abraham’s spiritual faith regardless of their ethnicity Gal 3:7,26-29

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 6:16

16 And as many as walk according to this rule[rule of faith], peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 7

 

[brightfame52]

Who is the Holy Nation ?

1 Pet 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Many believe this speaks of ethnic national israel over in the middle east, but that is far from the truth. The Holy Nation here is non other than the Body of Christ, the Church comprised of both jew and gentile converts, believers. How do i know this ? Well its by scripture comparison, this same Holy Nation here in 1 Pet 2:9 is called also in Vs 5

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Its called a Spiritual House which has reference to the Temple/Tabernacle of God of God, which is Spiritual.

Now this same epithet is used for the Church in Eph 2:19-22

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Spiritual House of 1 Pet 2:5 and the Holy Temple/Habitation of God through the Spirit of Eph 2:21,22 are the same !

And if that be so, the Church, comprised of both reconciled jew and gentile converts of Eph 2 is the Holy Nation of 1 Pet 2:9

The fulfillment of Ex 19:6

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

This isn't replacement theology but fulfillment theology according to the scriptures. 7

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I had this conversation on another forum, and wish to share it here for your consideration...

Someone said:
Those of faith in Jesus Christ are Abraham's seed (Gal 3:29), the true Israel (Ro 9:6-8, Gal 3:7-9, 6:16).

And that is "international Christianity."

You are therefore introducing a *new definition* for "Israel," which to me is irrational. You are drawing upon Paul's use of the name "Israel" to indicate the ethical standard that was required of Israel to be "God's People."

But they did not stop being called "Israel" even in their infidelity. This is what you're missing. It is a matter of "faithfulness"--not a matter of redefinition.

Let me put it like this. If you are unfaithful as a Christian, I may say you are not a "true Christian," not at all meaning that you don't go to church or pledge allegiance to the doctrines of the Church. I may simply say you are not a "true Christian" because you don't happen to be living up to the high ethical standards required of Christians.

This is not a redefinition of "Christian." It is marking who is "true," or "faithful," in their Christian practice.

The same would be true of the Jew who is not acting like a "true Jew" or of the nation who is not acting like "true Israel" because they are not living up to the standards represented by the Law of Moses.

The Christian does not stop being a "Christian" simply because he or she is backslidden. The Jew does not stop being a "Jew" simply because he or she is backslidden. Israel does not stop being 'Israel" because it has gone apostate.

No, these are simply not being "true" to their calling. They are to be cut off in the judgment. But until then any "cutting off" is temporary. Christians remain "Christians" and Jews remain "Jews." And Israel remains "Israel." You cannot redefine who they are simply because they are backslidden.

So very wrong.

Being Abrahams seed does not = being "true Israel". Gentiles are brought in to teh body. But true Israel are those Jews (the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) that are saved! Paul keeps them separate, you should as well. It keeps from getting into heretical interpretations of Scripture like Covenant theology and preterism does in abundance.

 

[brightfame52]

But true Israel are those Jews (the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) that are saved!

Plus saved Gentiles Gal 3:28-29

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now are u implying that jews the biological physical descendants of Abraham are saved distinctly from being in Christ with saved Gentiles ?

 

[Randy Kluth]

So very wrong.

Being Abrahams seed does not = being "true Israel". Gentiles are brought in to teh body. But true Israel are those Jews (the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) that are saved! Paul keeps them separate, you should as well. It keeps from getting into heretical interpretations of Scripture like Covenant theology and preterism does in abundance.

I'm trying to deal with the Replacement Theology issue--not confuse it with Covenant Theology or Preterism. Too many subjects just makes for confusion.

Replacement Theology re-names "Israel" from being the name of the literal, physical Israeli nation, believer and unbeliever, to the name of an international conglomeration of saved nations only. There are several problems with this. But the most important one is that nothing in the Scriptures says this. There is only ever one Israel in the Bible, and it is the physical, literal nation, believer and unbeliever.

It is true that God delegitimized unbelievers in Israel when they rebelled against Him. That means that they were cut off, or ceased to be, in the membership of Israel. But it didn't mean that they were not originally part of "Israel" proper.

The international Church consists of only believers from many nations, including Israel, and is called the "Church." So, you may quote the Bible where it says that God is color blind or blind to nationality. But the truth is, God created nations and takes pride in His creation.

Nations remain a distinction that God made and was pleased with. God is only saying that He is non-discriminatory and never Saves people because they are one race or another, one nation or another. Though that may have appeared as such in the OT era with Israel alone being in covenant with God, it was never God's purpose to make covenant with only that nation.

At the same time it has never been His intention to give up on Israel simply because they fail for a while. The Bible says that Israel's failure is common to all nations, and having begun with Israel, due to Abraham, it was God's intention to grow his spiritual family to include many nations or many families.

And Israel's inevitable failure became God's opportunity to reach out to pagan nations that were equally unworthy, just as Israel proved to be. So, God was not acting in a discriminatory way. All were unworthy, but He intended to give all nations an opportunity to be part of His world-wide family. And He wanted all nations to be included in some measure.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Plus saved Gentiles Gal 3:28-29

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now are u implying that jews the biological physical descendants of Abraham are saved distinctly from being in Christ with saved Gentiles ?

Being Abrahams seed does not make one a physical nor spiritual Israelite! It is being the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

And in the body there is not diffference between Jew or Gentile. Now go learn what that meant in its historic ocntext and it will free the confusion you have.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm trying to deal with the Replacement Theology issue--not confuse it with Covenant Theology or Preterism. Too many subjects just makes for confusion.

Well replacement theology is an inherent part of covenant theology so it cannot be pulled out of it.

Replacement Theology re-names "Israel" from being the name of the literal, physical Israeli nation, believer and unbeliever, to the name of an international conglomeration of saved nations only. There are several problems with this. But the most important one is that nothing in the Scriptures says this. There is only ever one Israel in the Bible, and it is the physical, literal nation, believer and unbeliever.

agreed

And Israel's inevitable failure became God's opportunity to reach out to pagan nations that were equally unworthy, just as Israel proved to be. So, God was not acting in a discriminatory way. All were unworthy, but He intended to give all nations an opportunity to be part of His world-wide family. And He wanted all nations to be included in some measure.

The body of Christ is a separate entity from the OT saints and the saints in theocratic Israel as well as the saints in the tribulation period.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well replacement theology is an inherent part of covenant theology so it cannot be pulled out of it.

agreed

The body of Christ is a separate entity from the OT saints and the saints in theocratic Israel as well as the saints in the tribulation period.

I don't understand that last statement. How can the "body of Christ" be a separate entity from the OT saints if in the resurrection the OT saints are united with the NT saints? I should think that the "body of Christ" includes *all* Christians, whether in the Tribulation Period, in the NT, or in the OT?

 

[brightfame52]

The True Israel of God, the Church, Paul calls them the circumcision , which is another name for Israel Phil 3:3

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Paul was writing to the Church at Philipi Phil 1:1

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

In fact, all the Saints in Christ Jesus are the circumcision, which worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus. Circumcision here is not physical, what the jews practiced under the Old Covenant, no it has noting to do with that. Its the circumcision of the heart Rom 2:29

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Whats been stated here is the New Birth, Gal 6:15

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

The circumcision of Christ Col 2:11

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

This is the Church, Spiritual Israel, Christs seed !7

 

[brightfame52]

Being Abrahams seed does not make one a physical nor spiritual Israelite!

Belonging to Christ makes one spiritual Israel or Abrahams Spiritual Children

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't understand that last statement. How can the "body of Christ" be a separate entity from the OT saints if in the resurrection the OT saints are united with the NT saints? I should think that the "body of Christ" includes *all* Christians, whether in the Tribulation Period, in the NT, or in the OT?

Well the NT saints are resurrected at the rapture which is a pre trib event. The OT saints bodies are resurrected right before the millennial kingdom starts in REv. 20. I know you abandoned a pretrib rapture but it is still true no matter what anyone thinks.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Belonging to Christ makes one spiritual Israel or Abrahams Spiritual Children

Wrong! Belonging to Christ makes you a member of the Body of Christ. we are Abrhams seed by faithy, but no where do you find the church called spiritual Israel or even implied.