Who really created the Son of God?

[Grailhunter]

Our faces everywhere. Throughout the storyline of the Gospel, Christ makes it clear that He and His Father are in two different places. Christ’s overall mission on Earth is to fulfill the will of God which is Yahweh....and He makes it clear that Yahweh, His Father sent Him. Yeshua never said in the Gospels that He sent Himself or came on His own behalf, or was doing His own will, or begot Himself. Over 40 times Christ says in the Gospels that His Father sent Him. This denotes the higher authority of the Father and that His Father is another person at a different place.

In several verses Christ indicates that God the Father gives or appoints certain things to Him. To appoint or give is an indication of hierarchy, authority, and an indication of two positions, given and received. You will not find a scripture where Christ says He sent the Father somewhere, or that the Father was doing His will, or He gave authority to the Father, it is not His position to do any of that. Other examples, Christ would not say, I gave Myself, all things, nor would He say that He loved Himself.

27. In John 10:17, Christ says, “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.” The same is true of honor or glory.

28. Honor is a heartfelt expression from one person to another. Christ does not honor Himself or love Himself. John 8:54, “If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that He is your God. All three of these expressions describe something happening from one...to... another.

29. Apostolic Perspective. There is a continual reference to Father and Son and a designation of Yahweh as God the Father in Heaven while Christ was on earth. And if you look closely the scriptures give distinctions to God as the Father and Christ as Lord in the same sentence. As in the benediction of some of books in the NT...2nd Corinthians, Ephesians, and Philippians.

30. 1st Timothy 6:13
“I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate.”

Matthew 5:16
Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 5:48
Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 6:1
Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 7:11
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Matthew 10:32
Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.

Matthew 16:17
And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 18:10
See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 18:14
So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

Matthew 18:19
Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 23:9
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Luke 2:49
And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?” (Note again: His Father’s house, not His house, not Our house.)

Continued.....

 

[Grailhunter]

The True concept of “oneness” is really not a matter of arithmetic. In modern times we are all about numbers, but a modern grade schooler would know more about numbers than most of the people of antiquity. The concept of one could have a symbology in this time period, not just the literal one, but also the concept of “unity.” The word “one” in regard to relationships can also mean solidarity. Again, in relation to the Trinity it is the unity and the solidarity, in mind, in heart, and in spirit between Yahweh, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father gives us in Genesis 2:24 an idea of how the concept of two people being one can be applied; “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.” Yeshua reiterates this concept in Mathew 19:5 & 6 and Mark 10:8, specifically saying, “And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.” Certainly everyone understands that husbands and wives do not merge to be one physical human, nor do they lose their character. They certainly join physically but they are not absorbed into one person, even though the condition of solidarity may exist between them. So in that case the word one is not denoting “the number one” or the singularity of the two persons in the marriage.

Beyond what is listed in the examples above, in the New Testament Yeshua gives us a clearer explanation of this concept of one. Speaking to God the Father (He was not talking to Himself) Yeshua says this about the concept of one... John 17:19-24 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Because Yeshua says “just as” this is an exactness, a duplication of a condition that we can achieve, and He states that this condition of “oneness” can apply to us, but it has nothing to do with absorption or singularity, but rather a condition of spiritual union and solidarity between God and us. The next verse further defines this by describing a unity with Christ that would cause the same condition with us as it did with them, a condition of perfection. Again, not talking to Himself, in John 17:23 “I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me.” In this context millions of people could be made one...one being a abstract concept of one, but a more literal meaning of unity, solidarity, and perfection and even a “body” that is considered one....the body of Christ or the body of the Church being one. And then, the next verse is probably one of the best verses to put this oneness concept into perspective. The leading verses are speaking of the works of the Holy Spirit and then ends with this explanation. 1st Corinthians 12:11-13 “But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.”

The same is true of the Godhead, which is made up of three Gods, but if there would have been a hundred named Gods that talked with each other and did all the above, the Church would have labeled them all one in order to get their theology to work and to say there is only one God. Certainly multiple persons in one God is a difficult concept, but the more persons the more difficult the concept becomes. If there would have been eight, sixty, or a hundred persons it would have been a concept near to impossible to convey. Tri-unity is difficult enough, but sixty-unity would have been intolerable and unacceptable. But as it was, three aspects of one god was a common scenario in Pagan beliefs, the triple goddess is a good example. Christianity worshipped Yahweh and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit which was familiar to the Pagans converting to Christianity….Gentiles. And so was the story of a god impregnating a woman and giving birth to a god.

The one God formula for the Trinity did not occur for several centuries after the biblical era but the first documented time the word Trinity was used in relations to Christianity was written in the second century. (Now, the definitions that follow are not that hard to lookup and for anyone that is truly interested, I recommend it.) The Greek word used for Trinity was Τριάς, meaning "a set of three." The only meaning of one in this word was that it was one set of three.

Webster’s definition of Trinity

1. the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead according to Christian dogma

2. not capitalized : a group of three closely related persons or things

3. a set of three

And again the McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

As time went on and the Church’s definition for the word Trinity changed, the next word for Trinity came from two Latin words. Trinitas, meaning, "the number three” and Unitas, meaning, unity; state of being one or undivided · sameness, uniformity · agreement, concord.

The biblical testament of the authority of the Father has always been a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church’s doctrine of the Trinity, because hands down, the Old Testament and Christ Himself testified clearly and definitively, of the authority of the Father, over a hundred times, dozens of these coming from Christ Himself. In the Old Testament Yahweh makes it clear that He is singular God. He never functions as a trio, and specially indicates that He is the only one and no one like Him. There are zero suggestions of a Godhead in the Old Testament. Yahweh never suggested that there is a Godhead. There are zero suggestions that Yahweh recognized any other entity but Himself. There are zero suggestions that He recognized any name as a Deity other than Himself. No accounts in Old Testament of Yahweh conversing with Yeshua, no discussion defined between the two. There is One God in the religion of the Jews. You shall have no other Gods before me. There is zero evidence of God having a Son in the Old Testament. If a Jew started praying to another named God they would have been stoned. But things change in the New Testament.

The facts and the bottom line is, Yeshua is the Son of the Almighty God. Yeshua called Yahweh His Father and Yeshua calling Yahweh His God appears three times in the Gospels. Matt. 27:46, Mark 15:34, John 20:17


Yahweh---God Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth and mankind. Father and God to Yeshua.


Yeshua---A full-fledged God, The Son of God Almighty, Messiah and Savior
The unnamed God referred to as the Holy Spirit, a full-fledged God. Helper, guide, nurture, teacher, wisdom. Because the Holy Spirit was not named and given the designation of Spirit, people think the Holy Spirit is different in substance than Yahweh and Yeshua....but no scripture suggests that.

So that is it, truth for you. While those that believe in the one God formula cling to a couple scriptures, I have provided hundreds that the Trinity is made up of three Gods, unique and distinct and united in purpose. The worst way to understand the New Testament is to take a couple unexplained incongruent scriptures and make a religious belief out of it when they do not agree with the whole New Testament.

On the other hand, these biblical proofs of the authority of God the Father in no way conflict with beliefs regarding the Trinity. In the Old Testament it is easy to see that Yahweh proclaims Himself as the ultimate authority and does not define Himself as a trio. In the New Testament after Yahweh begets a Son, His Son repeatedly attests to the authority of the Father. A numerical count of the three Gods occur as the Gospels progress, but descriptions or discussions regarding the trio of Gods does not occur until after Christ ascends to Heaven, and rightly so, the trio did not form until He ascended to Heaven. At which time, God the Father still holds the positional authority as God Almighty. In relation to each other the Bible assigns them positional seniority as we would understand the relationship of Father and Son....more or less the chain of command...But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and head of woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1st Corinthians 11:3

Continued.....

 

[Grailhunter]

Then from our perspective they have equal authority over us. Then in relation to the salvation of humanity, Christ has all authority. To put this in simple terms it would be like delegating authority to complete a task, but Yahweh is still chairman of the board in Heaven. The Truth makes sense. The Shield of the Trinity is still compatible as a representation of the Godhead, in that God in center represents that spiritual unity, while there is a God called Yahweh, a God called Yeshua, and a God called the Holy Spirit. And at the same time the representation makes it clear the Yahweh is not Yeshua and neither are the Holy Spirit. Three individual Gods that are in accord. But still I see people scratching their heads over it…

 

[Justified]

LOL A few!!!

Yes, all I asked for was just a few.

The one God formula for the Trinity skews the meaning of over a hundred scriptures and the storyline of the Gospels….
And then here are over a hundred scriptural reasons why the one God formula for the Trinity is false.

Both of those assertions remain to be seen.

Because of this the reasons for and explanation of the errors with the one God formula for the Trinity starts with the removal of Yahweh’s name from the Old Testament. This was the event that set the stage for the one God formula and it started with the removal of God’s name from the Old Testament scriptures. That is to change the name of the Yahweh to God. Rather than “God” representing spiritual position, to change the word God to a proper name. At which point they could manipulate it very easily.

The truth is that God the Father's name at one time appeared around 6,800 times in the Old Testament and He was adamant that He was the only one and no one like Him existed. There are a few words in the OT that refer to Yahweh, like EL and Elohim and at times they referred to locations or holy sites, but they are references not proper names, or they could not say or write them. On the other hand YHWH does refer to the proper name of God the Father and at one time it appeared over 6.800 times in the Old Testament.

There was no attempt to remove God's name, much less in order to support the Trinity. It still does appear in the OT. Everyone knows this.

Now for reasoning and scriptures….

1. If Christ’s throne is on the right hand of God, He is not within God and that position although important is second to God the Father. Mark 16:19 “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into Heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”

How does that prove the Trinity false?

2. If one had to leave before the other could come, as in the case of the Holy Spirit, this would suggest individuality. John 16:7

The fact that two are mentioned suggests distinctness, but there could be other reasons as to why one had to leave first before the other could come. In no way whatsoever does it mean complete individuality.

So, again, how does this prove the Trinity false?

3. If there is any conversation at all between the three entities; that would indicate some individuality.

Distinctness, yes. The doctrine of the Trinity fully affirms this.

4. If the conversation included a request, like Yeshua asking His Father to bypass the cup (so-to-speak); it indicates individuality and hierarchy. Matthew 26:36-46

Distinctness, yes, and some sort of hierarchy at least as far as the incarnation is concerned. But, once again, how does this prove the Trinity false?

5. If the conversation is in the form of a pray. For example; Our Father which art in Heaven.....But the Son was standing before them. This indicates individuality and hierarchy.

See the above.

6. If one God refers to Himself or others refer to Him as the Father and the other God refers to Himself or others refer to Him as the Son; This indicates individuality and hierarchy. This is particularly significant because this is a self defined and self described definition by God Himself. God decided to define their positions as God the Father and God the Son, so we would understand their relationship. God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son…. John 3:16

"One God . . . the other God." There is only one God. The Trinity fully affirms the distinctness of the persons of the Father and the Son (and the Holy Spirit). So, again, how does this prove the Trinity false?

It was God that chose to describe Himself as a Father, so we could understand our relationship with Him and His relationship with His Son, in human terms. There is a clear authoritative aspect associated with the Father and Son relationship. There is no possible way of mistaking this relationship as equal or the same person. Yeshua was the begotten Son of Yahweh. Yahweh did not begot Himself.

You're first assuming that Yahweh only refers to the Father and using that to conclude that Jesus was the Son of Yahweh. That is circular reasoning.

7. Again, for God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son...John 3:16 There is no part of this verse that suggest that He begot Himself, or sent Himself, or that his Son was Him.

Of course it doesn't. That is not what the doctrine of the Trinity even remotely teaches. That is the error of Modalism/Oneness. Please learn what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches first and then find these supposed verses which prove the Trinity false.

The meaning of the verse is that, it took a lot of love for God to offer His real Son as a sacrifice for the world. This verse is talking about two Gods. God the Father and God the Son.

No, two Gods is precluded from ever being a reality. God himself says so:

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Jesus affirms it:

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Paul affirms it:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

James affirms it:

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Jude affirms it:

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

8. If a person can sin against one God worse than the other...as in the case of the un-pardonable sin. This indicates separation of some sort as well as a very special uniqueness in regard to the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:30-32

Distinctness, yes, which the doctrine of the Trinity fully affirms, but there is no "one God" and "other" God. Such an idea is utterly foreign to both the OT and NT and the entirety of church history.


And on and on and on it goes. Not a single verse you have given proves the Trinity false. You have also shown that you do not even understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

Most importantly, you believe in three Gods, two of whom reject that notion. Start there. Then go learn what the doctrine of the Trinity actually teaches. Then search the Scriptures to see if even one verse proves it false and we'll talk.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

A step at a time: what does the 2nd Adam, and the last Adam mean to you?

Jesus is referred to as the 2nd or last Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:45, which states, "So it is written: 'The first man Adam became a living being'; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit".
So you have one who represents the physical man who past down sin to all and one God/man who offered spiritual life by the washing away of man's sin by His blood sacrifice. Only God can take away the sins of the world. Jesus did that! A mere man could not do that - nor an angel? One would have to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent to do that.

 

[Grailhunter]

There was no attempt to remove God's name, much less in order to support the Trinity. It still does appear in the OT. Everyone knows this.

I explained that very thoroughly......Yehweh's name is no longer in the Old Testament.

 

[Grailhunter]

How does that prove the Trinity false?

Sitting next each other, not one God and not sitting on each other's lap LOL

 

[Grailhunter]

So, again, how does this prove the Trinity false?

Yeshua plus the Holy Spirit....does not suggest 1

 

[Grailhunter]

Distinctness, yes. The doctrine of the Trinity fully affirms this.

Two different Gods talking to each other....does not suggest one.

 

[Grailhunter]

"One God . . . the other God." There is only one God. The Trinity fully affirms the distinctness of the persons of the Father and the Son (and the Holy Spirit). So, again, how does this prove the Trinity false?

They refer to each other, does not suggest one.

 

[Grailhunter]

Of course it doesn't. That is not what the doctrine of the Trinity even remotely teaches. That is the error of Modalism/Oneness. Please learn what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches first and then find these supposed verses which prove the Trinity false.

the doctrine of the Trinity teaches does not teach the truth about 3 Gods.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, all I asked for was just a few.


Both of those assertions remain to be seen.


There was no attempt to remove God's name, much less in order to support the Trinity. It still does appear in the OT. Everyone knows this.


How does that prove the Trinity false?


The fact that two are mentioned suggests distinctness, but there could be other reasons as to why one had to leave first before the other could come. In no way whatsoever does it mean complete individuality.

So, again, how does this prove the Trinity false?


Distinctness, yes. The doctrine of the Trinity fully affirms this.


Distinctness, yes, and some sort of hierarchy at least as far as the incarnation is concerned. But, once again, how does this prove the Trinity false?


See the above.


"One God . . . the other God." There is only one God. The Trinity fully affirms the distinctness of the persons of the Father and the Son (and the Holy Spirit). So, again, how does this prove the Trinity false?


You're first assuming that Yahweh only refers to the Father and using that to conclude that Jesus was the Son of Yahweh. That is circular reasoning.


Of course it doesn't. That is not what the doctrine of the Trinity even remotely teaches. That is the error of Modalism/Oneness. Please learn what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches first and then find these supposed verses which prove the Trinity false.


No, two Gods is precluded from ever being a reality. God himself says so:

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Jesus affirms it:

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Paul affirms it:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

James affirms it:

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Jude affirms it:

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.


Distinctness, yes, which the doctrine of the Trinity fully affirms, but there is no "one God" and "other" God. Such an idea is utterly foreign to both the OT and NT and the entirety of church history.


And on and on and on it goes. Not a single verse you have given proves the Trinity false. You have also shown that you do not even understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

Most importantly, you believe in three Gods, two of whom reject that notion. Start there. Then go learn what the doctrine of the Trinity actually teaches. Then search the Scriptures to see if even one verse proves it false and we'll talk.

Old Testament references are true because there is one God in the Old Testament.....no mention of Yeshua.
Or would you call him the Son of God in the Old Testament.

 

[JLB]

Old Testament references are true because there is one God in the Old Testament.....no mention of Yeshua.
Or would you call him the Son of God in the Old Testament.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6


The Angel of the LORD is the Son of God.

He is the Son of God.
He is the LORD.
He is God.

 

[Grailhunter]

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6


The Angel of the LORD is the Son of God.

He is the Son of God.
He is the LORD.
He is God.

LOL No suggestion of the Son of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Either you produce your die-hard claim that the Father and Son are the same, as a mathematical equity that scripture tends not to do, i.e. 'is' usually does not equate to '=',

FYI
EQUITY does not mean the same as EQUAL.

Even in math.

in a logical sequence and thought process that I believe you are not capable of doing, or you can just leave this thread quietly, in knowing you tried you best. What else is there to do? That I believe is your 'high' road that you can take.

I believe I might have already replied to this.
If not...I AM on the high road....
which road are YOU on?

 

[GodsGrace]

Please, I’m requesting you publicly to stop mentioning me in your rebuttals.

Post in thread 'Reason for The Crusades explained'
Reason for The Crusades explained

I honored your request. I hope you’ll honor mine.

Your request is not required for three reasons:

1. I only mentioned you ONE TIME and not repeatedly which is what you were doing.
We are allowed to mention other members by tagging them into the conversation...

but only if...

2. We do NOT misquote them - which is what YOU were doing to ME in the thread you linked.

3. I mentioned nothing that you stated or that you believe.
I mentioned you because the other member did and he repeatedly states that he does not trust MEN...
I think you're a MAN and he said he is leanring from YOU. Just thought it was rather hypocritical of him.

You can sleep well tonight.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Ephesians 4:7-13
7 But unto each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the gift of the Χ̅Ρ.
8 Wherefore he says, "When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men." [Psa 68:18]
9 Now this, "He ascended", what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.
11 And he gave some to be apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers,
12 for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of the Χ̅Ρ,
13 until we all attain unto the unity of the faith-belief, and of the knowledge of the Son of Elohim, unto a fully-grown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Χ̅Ρ:

Paul exegetes the passage he quotes and I do not need to exegete Paul here, (as should be obvious), but what does the remainder of Paul's quote say in the full verse, in the portion which he did not quote from in the same verse?

Psalm 68:18
עלית למרום שבית שבי לקחת מתנות באדם ואף סוררים לשכן יה אלהים׃

Psalm 68:18
18 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive, You have brought gifts among men, [Eph 4:8] but wrath to the rebellious, that Yah Elohim might tabernacle there [therein].

Paul therefore, by his exegesis of the first half of the verse, inextricably links the Χ̅Ρ to Yah Elohim. Therefore I would strongly suggest a prayerful deep-dive study into the context and background context of the Eph 4 passage quoted above.

Typical avoidance of the key Scriptures which deal with Christ's nature.

There is no doubt that God was manifested in the flesh of His Son and achieved victory over sin’s flesh. However, God cannot literally dwell in what is unclean or corrupting, under the condemnation of the law of sin working in Christ's members. If death was at work in Christ, then He cannot be the literal person of Yahweh. Rather, it was in the mind and obedience of His Son that Yahweh led captivity captive.

If you spent more time considering the nature of Christ as taught by the apostles, you would understand that Christ began His existence in the same way you did.

Galatians 4:4!

Keep searching dak you will find the true Messiah.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The Angel of the LORD is the Son of God.

He is the Son of God.
He is the LORD.
He is God.

Amen! And there is Also This Truth (# 48 of Complete Case Of 163 Reasons for Triune GodHead! ):

Christ Is Called 'The Rock' 1 Corinthians 10:4. That Is Who Israel​

followed. 'The Rock' Who Israel followed Was God Deuteronomy 32:3-4.​

God is 'The Rock' Psalms 18:2, and Only God Is 'The Rock' -​

Psalms 18:31. Christ Is God.​

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And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

LOL No suggestion of the Son of God.

We tend to not see what we do not want to see.

 

[Grailhunter]

We tend to not see what we do not want to see.

Or we insert beliefs that are not there and deceive ourselves.