Is it okay to blame God for stuff that is his fault?
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Brakelite
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There's also a big difference between answering challenging questions, sometimes with an "I don't know", and flat out condemning someone by judging motive and without answering. Better to assume sincerity than assume devilish motives.
Brakelite
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Actually throughout history through ignorant churches and blind christians.
You understand that there are genuine criticisms and concerns about where our Bible came from, correct?
Hopefully you are referring to the false doctrines like total inspiration and inerrancy?
But some don't even try to hide their Bible attacks, like "no wonder I don't trust the Bible". Or, "death and hell are demons you worship"! Totally Satanic.
Brakelite
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Sure. People have some serious doubts. Not only about the Bible itself, but about how people use the bible to justify blatantly false doctrine. The less discerning or educated amongst us can readily doubt the Bible believing that what they are being taught from the Bible is actually what the bible teaches, when it is not. Remember, slavery and the violent abuse of African Americans in your own country was taught as being biblically justified. Who could blame anyone, who didn't have access to the Bible or the ability to read it in their own language, doubt the n bible when their entire family was enslaved and told the bible teaches they were going to hell based on the colour of their skin? What would you believe in such circumstances? The Bible is trustworthy, or a lie from the devil?
Kayla McCanny
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We aren't made to live in this world forever. Suffering is part of this world. Heaven is our home. So when bad things happen it is not God's fault.
Hiddenthings
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There is no supernatural evil being, only the darkness in human hearts, which enslaves people just as the taskmasters did in Egypt in Moses’ time. You won’t find appeals to supernatural evil beings back then; they understood all too well how desperately wicked the flesh can be. Such ideas arise from weak reasoning that attaches unbiblical notions to words never intended to support these imagined concepts.
All this will be revealed you and those like Jack who love to imagine a thing.
Hiddenthings
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It can be the man or woman standing beside you, or even the reflection staring back at you in the mirror.
Brakelite
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“43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. ”
Matthew 12:43-45 KJV
“1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. 2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. ”
Mark 5:1-13 KJV
“5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. ”
Matthew 10:5-8 KJV
Was Jesus also deceived?
Hiddenthings
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“43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. ”
Matthew 12:43-45 KJV
“1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. 2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. ”
Mark 5:1-13 KJV
“5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. ”
Matthew 10:5-8 KJV
Was Jesus also deceived?
Copying and pasting large sections of text and attempting to form a concluding argument with “Was Jesus also deceived” illustrates why sincere believers like yourself can be misled, because of a lack of careful, skillful, and attentive reading of the Word. If you cannot discern the times in which these lessons were given what hope is there? Imagine if the times were reversed! Wow, imagine your confusion.“43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. ”
Matthew 12:43-45 KJV
“1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. 2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. ”
Mark 5:1-13 KJV
“5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. ”
Matthew 10:5-8 KJV
Was Jesus also deceived?
Brakelite
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Three simple instructive episodes where Jesus Himself is personally involved and speaking, at times directly to the devil, at other times with counsel concerning devilish activities, and finally with instruction for Christians to do as He did when warranted. All of which you claim is deception and/or a metaphorical time warp.
Is a simple question. What would a Christadelphian say to Jesus if he were there? And why didn't any of his closest associates say the same thing? Was Jesus deceived? What was the point of introducing a metaphor for human sin when all He needed to do was say the word, sin? Apart from the deliberate use of parables, of which none of the above can be classified, Jesus was known for His straight testimony. Never did He deliberately set out to deceive anyone.“43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. ”
Matthew 12:43-45 KJV
“1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. 2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. ”
Mark 5:1-13 KJV
“5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. ”
Matthew 10:5-8 KJV
Was Jesus also deceived?
Yet the letters of Paul and the other apostles all have references to the devil. To deny the devil is real is stubborn ideology bereft of all logic and the understanding of plain language. Apart of course from the innumerable personal encounters over centuries between Christians and this arch enemy of their souls.
Hiddenthings
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You have no record that:
- Identifies or establishes the existence of such a being.
- Shows the disciples sitting at the Lord’s feet being taught the identity of such a being.
- Includes any OT reference where Jesus appeals to the passages you wrest to support your doctrine.
- Includes any Epistle, especially Romans or Hebrews addressing such a being. Instead, Scripture attributes the power of sin to the flesh nature we bear, which is called “devil” in Hebrews 2:14 (has been destroyed!).
I know this and you know it also but your fanciful notions are playing tricks on your mind so you don't know you are deceived.
Cultural context required Jesus to use the common vernacular of the day. At that time, virtually all unexplained illnesses were attributed to demons and evil spirits, and the healings themselves stand as evidence of this mindset. If the Woman with an issue of blood happened have a mental illness, what would it have been called? You know I'm right but you are so entrenched in your community and their teaching you can't see clearly on this.
I even asked @Aunty Jane how many people in her JW community had been incarcerated by this so-called fallen angel. She had to walk away, because she knows this “devil” supposedly doesn’t operate that way today. Go figure!
It means you can't interpret Revelation 2:10 correctly because you do not understand the way the Greek is being used or its various context.
It’s a pointless discussion, because you have to approach the subject honestly, and that’s impossible while futilely defending it.
The issue is you don't have the skills to discern their meaning.
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Hiddenthings
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Button
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Hiddenthings
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Hiddenthings
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@Brakelite Upon rereading my response, I felt there were several well-reasoned points worth your consideration.
Do you find the absence of evidence in the Synoptic Gospels concerning? For all that Christians make of this being, and the colourful notions used to describe it we have absolutely nothing from the Lord Jesus Christ himself on the subject.
That in itself should raise alarm bells for you.
Brakelite
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What does your church call the Bible version that has removed all the evidence from the synoptic Gospels?
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