Why the great chain?

[quietthinker]

Revelation 20
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

If this is literal and satan is locked and sealed in the abyss why would there even be a need for a great chain?

What is the purpose of the great chain?

What is the great chain?

It's a metaphor for movement being restricted to a desolate earth where there are no nations to deceive because all inhabitants are dead .

 

[Lambano]

Why the great chain?​

Satan is really into bondage games.

Seriously, the symbolism of a chain for bondage is quite appropriate, given how we've been in bondage to sin ever since that little incident in the Garden.

 

[JustMe]

Why would you need that in a literal sense if he is also locked in a literal abyss?

The chain indicated complete authority and control, of Christ I would expect over evil.

 

[rwb]

Right, the Lamb has to be slain before the seals are opened.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world only shows Christ made Himself the atonement for sin. But until Christ was born, and resurrected from the dead how are those whose sins are forgiven to inherit eternal life?

 

[rwb]

The slain Lamb could open seals prior to the cross, just like Jesus was able to forgive sins prior to the cross.

Matthew 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

How would having forgiveness of sins give eternal life before Christ defeated death by His cross and resurrection?

 

[rwb]

Yes I agree with your view on the great chain and the thousand years that’s my purpose to this thread to get literalist to think about it.

If the great chain and abyss are literal then there is no need for the great chain

I don’t agree with your view on Jesus and Michael but thats a different matter

Paul described himself as being bound with a chain. None would think that Paul's chain was literal. Paul's chain was spiritual, not physical, but it still held spiritual restraining power over him to the degree that he could do nothing less than what God had ordained of him. In the same manner that Paul being spiritually bound by God could do nothing less than that which God required of him, so too Satan, being spiritually bound through the cross and resurrection of Christ, could no longer hold those who would be born again as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is heard and received in fear of darkness and death. Satan being bound spiritually symbolizes mankind being set free from bondage to sin and death through the power of God by believing in the name of Jesus.

Ac 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

1 Corinthians 2:1-5 (KJV) And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Galatians 6:14-17 (KJV) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

Perhaps we could look at the chain as a chain of events. So the seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven bowls might each be links in that great chain.

Yes.
I do believe that CHAIN OF EVENTS was msot certainly an expression used back in the day.

 

[GodsGrace]

How would having forgiveness of sins give eternal life before Christ defeated death by His cross and resurrection?

Is this a trick question?
Are you really serious?

 

[rwb]

Don't know. It just tells me he is locked up. Maybe more than just being detained it indicates that his activities are being restrained, as well?

Amills (your position?) think Satan is already locked up in the present age. And certainly Satan is no longer able to condemn those who are in Christ Jesus.

Premills (my position) think a time is coming for mortal humanity when even Satan's present activities will be reduced further, so that the promises God made to Abraham will be fulfilled in Christian nations across the world. But we could argue this until the sun goes down, and well after the sun comes up again! ;)

Since the binding of Satan prevents him from condemning those who are in Christ Jesus, this is only possible after Christ came to earth a sinless man, gave His life to make atonement for sin, and showing He has all power over death resurrected from the grave. If Christ has not yet bound Satan and he is still free having power to hold Gentiles in bondage to sin and fear of death, how are the "innumerable multitude" NOW, from the cross and resurrection, being born again? Which of course is the only way for man to both know and enter the Kingdom of God for eternal life!

 

[grafted branch]

Being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world only shows Christ made Himself the atonement for sin. But until Christ was born, and resurrected from the dead how are those whose sins are forgiven to inherit eternal life?

How would having forgiveness of sins give eternal life before Christ defeated death by His cross and resurrection?

When a person stands at the great white throne judgement and their sins have already been forgiven, they don’t have to pay for those sins a second time. If that were the case then we would be in doubt about our future after our physical death, we would have no assurance.

Those who died before the cross went to Sheol. Are you arguing that no one in Sheol had eternal life? From Luke 16 it appears that there were two areas in Sheol, one where Lazarus was and one where the rich man was. If you are arguing that Lazarus didn’t actually have eternal life in heaven until after Jesus died on the cross, I’m not arguing against that.

Let me ask you this, did the man with the palsy in Matthew 9:5-6 have to follow the Law by making animal sacrifices for his sins after those sins were forgiven by Jesus? Was the daily sacrifice taken away for that individual?

 

[rwb]

Is this a trick question?
Are you really serious?

Yes, it is a serious question! Since before his binding Satan had power to hold the Gentile nations of the world in bondage to sin and death, how can any Gentile be saved if Satan was not bound through the advent of Christ's cross and resurrection? Those who believe Satan has not yet been bound through the power of Christ's cross & resurrection must explain how Gentiles, of which number an "innumerable multitude" from all the nations of the world have been and are being saved as the gospel of the Kingdom of God has been and is being proclaimed unto all the nations of the world.

This verse tells us Satan had power to deceive "the nations" before being bound! Since the advent of Christ's cross and resurrection that deception is broken for Gentiles (the nations) who hear the gospel of the Kingdom of God and believe on Christ for eternal life.

Revelation 20:3 (KJV) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Why is Satan's power limited to deceiving the "nations" (Gentiles) and not Israel also?

Since Christ's cross and resurrection spiritually binds Satan, the gospel of the Kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and "ALL nations", no longer the nation of Israel alone, but "ALL NATIONS" are numbered among the elect of God, standing, spiritually speaking, before the Lamb, clothed in white, symbolizing having righteousness of Christ resting upon them. How? By grace through faith in the cross and resurrection of Christ, they are no longer being deceived, no longer bound by power Satan held over them through fear of sin and death. In Christ sins are forgiven and we no longer fear death because the life we receive through the advent of Christ shall NEVER end.

Revelation 7:9 (KJV) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

[Randy Kluth]

Since the binding of Satan prevents him from condemning those who are in Christ Jesus, this is only possible after Christ came to earth a sinless man, gave His life to make atonement for sin, and showing He has all power over death resurrected from the grave. If Christ has not yet bound Satan and he is still free having power to hold Gentiles in bondage to sin and fear of death, how are the "innumerable multitude" NOW, from the cross and resurrection, being born again? Which of course is the only way for man to both know and enter the Kingdom of God for eternal life!

1) The NT Scriptures indicate that Satan is still active even while the Gospel of Christ has proven to be effective for Salvation, and for God's works among Christians in the present age.
2) Satan was active in the OT era, and even then God's word was invincible and enabled the people of God to prevail in their call to serve God and accomplish the work of preparing for the comng of Christ.

 

[rwb]

When a person stands at the great white throne judgement and their sins have already been forgiven, they don’t have to pay for those sins a second time. If that were the case then we would be in doubt about our future after our physical death, we would have no assurance.

Exactly! That power was broken through the cross and resurrection of Christ that spiritually binds the power of Satan to hold Gentile nations in fear of death through sin. If that power is not already broken through the perfect life, atoning blood, and resurrected life of Christ, then the nations of the world (Gentiles) could not be eternally saved. There would be no resurrection of the dead in Christ if the power of Satan to hold the nations in bondage to fear of death was not defeated by Christ.

Hebrews 2:13-15 (KJV) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Those who died before the cross went to Sheol. Are you arguing that no one in Sheol had eternal life? From Luke 16 it appears that there were two areas in Sheol, one where Lazarus was and one where the rich man was. If you are arguing that Lazarus didn’t actually have eternal life in heaven until after Jesus died on the cross, I’m not arguing against that.

Those who died in faith before the advent of Christ were saved by grace through faith in the same manner all who are saved after the advent of Christ! They were saved by grace through faith believing the prophets that prophesied of the Messiah who was to come to redeem them. They are in that part of the grave the Old Covenant knew as the bosom of Abraham. That's the part of the grave that Christ's spirit descended down to set the captives free of bondage of the grave, taking them with Him as He ascended to heaven.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

[rwb]

1) The NT Scriptures indicate that Satan is still active even while the Gospel of Christ has proven to be effective for Salvation, and for God's works among Christians in the present age.
2) Satan was active in the OT era, and even then God's word was invincible and enabled the people of God to prevail in their call to serve God and accomplish the work of preparing for the comng of Christ.

NOW, since the advent of Christ's cross and resurrection, Satan only has power to hold in bondage to fear of death to all who remain in unbelief! Satan no longer has power over fear of death to all (Jew & Gentile) who have been born again through the gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit.

The people of Old, in the same manner the people of New were/are saved according to grace through faith eternally the moment they believe on the Messiah, Christ Jesus our Lord for eternal life.

 

[grafted branch]

Those who died in faith before the advent of Christ were saved by grace through faith in the same manner all who are saved after the advent of Christ! They were saved by grace through faith believing the prophets that prophesied of the Messiah who was to come to redeem them.

Prior to the cross, could a Gentile, who remained outside of the nation of Israel, have faith and be saved?

If the answer is yes, then there is one true “spiritual Israel” people of God, through out time, but it doesn’t matter whether Satan is bound or not, Gentiles get saved.

If the answer is no then the one true people of God was only in the nation of Israel and Satan was able to prevent Gentiles from being saved.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Prior to the cross, could a Gentile, who remained outside of the nation of Israel, have faith and be saved?

If the answer is yes, then there is one true “spiritual Israel”a people of God, through out time, but it doesn’t matter whether Satan is bound or not, Gentiles get saved.

If the answer is no then the one true people of God was only in the nation of Israel and Satan was able to prevent Gentiles from being saved.

There are missing elements to your questions. And I don't mean to criticize you for this, but these elements must enter into it.

When you talk about Gentiles outside of Israel getting "Saved" before the Cross, what do you mean by "getting Saved?" Nobody is technically "Saved" before the Cross, because the Cross had to happen before anybody could be "Saved."

But if you're talking about whether only Israel or Israel and Gentiles both had faith resulting in their future redemption, we obviously would think that this would not exclude Gentiles. Not only were their believers before Israel even existed as a nation, but men like Naaman, a Gentile, later came to faith in God. And Gentiles who converted to Judaism entered into a faith compact with God together with all Israel.

None of this means there is only "on true Spiritual Israel--People of God." This is unless you are simply stating that all believers in all times and in all places are made "one" in Christ? Obviously, that is Scriptural and that is true. But nonetheless to say they are only "one People" without explaining that this "one People" consists in this age and in past ages of many different nations leaves the question of what kind of "unity" you speak of?'

If you deny that Israel alone was in covenant with God in the OT era, then you deny the exclusivity of the Law, which God said made Israel unique. Yet that doesn't deny that others could have faith in God's inner word even in their ignorance without even needing a formal covenant.

I would posit that God said He would take the Kingdom from Israel and give it to another nation, ie the Romans. And this allowed many peoples of God to be formed throughout Europe and the world. This I say without denying the essential unity of all of these "Peoples of God."

 

[Davidpt]

Satan is a spirit—specifically, the spirit of man in rebellion, the spirit of evil. This is where many people go wrong. They assume Satan is a created spiritual being made by God, but that is not true.[/B].

Wow. talk about heresy. And at least 2 other ppl believe and agree with this heresy, the fact they liked his post. I wonder how many more Amils believe this heresy? So let's be honest here. There is just as much heresy coming out of the Amil camp than there is the Premil camp. Maybe even more. So let's don't pretend Amils are not equally heretical at times as well.

As to heresy coming out of the Premil camp. I'm meaning things like animal sacrificing resuming when Christ returns--Ezekiel's temple. But I'm not saying, that by placing the millennium in the future is heresy, though. Nor am I even saying, by placing the millennium in the here and now is heresy, either. Yet, clearly, that satan is not a created being, that is as heretical as it gets, and so is animal sacrificing resuming after Christ returns is equally heretical as it gets.

BTW, there is such a thing as unliking a post, otherwise these other 2 remain on record for supporting heresy, such as, satan is not a created being.

 

[bdavidc]

If this is literal and satan is locked and sealed in the abyss why would there even be a need for a great chain?

What is the purpose of the great chain?

What is the great chain?

The Bible does not ask us to speculate about the chain. It tells us why it exists.

Satan is bound “that he should deceive the nations no more” ~Revelation 20:3. That condition has never existed yet. Right now the nations are deceived ~1 John 5:19. Satan still blinds minds ~2 Corinthians 4:4. He still prowls ~1 Peter 5:8. A bound devil does not roam.

So when someone says the chain is the gospel, the church, or human restraint, they are not explaining Scripture. They are contradicting it.

God does not need iron to overpower Satan. Authority does the work. The language piles up on purpose. “Laid hold… bound… cast… shut… sealed” ~Revelation 20:2–3. That is custody, not poetry.

What is the chain made of? Scripture does not say. And where God is silent, honest teachers shut their mouths. The point is not curiosity. The point is certainty. Satan will be restrained completely, visibly, and temporarily by God Himself.

The chain is not a metaphor to soften judgment. It is a warning that God’s restraint is coming, and when it does, Satan will not negotiate it.

That is what the text says. Anything else is fog.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Wow. talk about heresy. And at least 2 other ppl believe and agree with this heresy, the fact they liked his post. I wonder how many more Amils believe this heresy? So let's be honest here. There is just as much heresy coming out of the Amil camp than there is the Premil camp. Maybe even more. So let's don't pretend Amils are not equally heretical at times as well.

As to heresy coming out of the Premil camp. I'm meaning things like animal sacrificing resuming when Christ returns--Ezekiel's temple. But I'm not saying, that by placing the millennium in the future is heresy, though. Nor am I even saying, by placing the millennium in the here and now is heresy, either. Yet, clearly, that satan is not a created being, that is as heretical as it gets, and so is animal sacrificing resuming after Christ returns is equally heretical as it gets.

BTW, there is such a thing as unliking a post, otherwise these other 2 remain on record for supporting heresy, such as, satan is not a created being.

I agree, somewhat, with the gist of what you're saying. If indeed Premills are saying that the Law, together with animal sacrifices, are to be resumed in the Millennial Age, that is indeed heresy. But not all Premills would say this, even if they agree on a resumption of animal sacrifices.

Most of the Premills that I've known who believe in the resumption of animal sacrifices in Israel believe that they are not redemptive, but rather, of memorial significance. So that is not technically heresy. I don't agree with it, but I wouldn't call those who believe in this heretics. Just my opinion...

On the other hand, I quite agree that it is rather bizarre to hear it stated, categorically, that Satan is not a created, spiritual being. He most certainly is, and Christianity has always taught this. This falls more into the category of "weird" to me, as opposed to heretical.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Bible does not ask us to speculate about the chain. It tells us why it exists.

Satan is bound “that he should deceive the nations no more” ~Revelation 20:3. That condition has never existed yet. Right now the nations are deceived ~1 John 5:19. Satan still blinds minds ~2 Corinthians 4:4. He still prowls ~1 Peter 5:8. A bound devil does not roam.

So when someone says the chain is the gospel, the church, or human restraint, they are not explaining Scripture. They are contradicting it.

God does not need iron to overpower Satan. Authority does the work. The language piles up on purpose. “Laid hold… bound… cast… shut… sealed” ~Revelation 20:2–3. That is custody, not poetry.

What is the chain made of? Scripture does not say. And where God is silent, honest teachers shut their mouths. The point is not curiosity. The point is certainty. Satan will be restrained completely, visibly, and temporarily by God Himself.

The chain is not a metaphor to soften judgment. It is a warning that God’s restraint is coming, and when it does, Satan will not negotiate it.

That is what the text says. Anything else is fog.

I completely agree except that I don't criticize those who are curious--not even if they have an unspoken agenda. It is when we reason together with the Lord and with one another that we are encouraged to believe God's truth. Let's let them ask--otherwise, we're in complete agreement.