WWJD with LGBTQ?

[St. SteVen]

Well, there you have it. We have found common ground in at least one area.

Remove your blinders and we can have a few more.

 

[Button]

Already replied to the above.
Post no. 1055

Here it is again:

By your understanding God created the laws so that we would know sin...

and then He goes ahead and creates sin - which is what evil is (and more).

God also established the consequence of not following His laws.

So why would He impose consequences on us for not following the laws if it's God that CAUSES us to be evil and to sin?

You see Button...
your line of reasoning is not logical...

OK. Thanks

 

[JesusFan]

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage

he would state to each one involved that There are but 2 genders, God create each one of them fearfully and wonderfully, and to accpt who they are, made in his own image, and come to him to have eternal life now

 

[shepherdsword]

Remove your blinders and we can have a few more.

And if you would humble yourself, even more

 

[Button]

I thought to take the OP points for clarification.
I hope it isn't often that we find those who excuse sinful behavior and call for its tolerance.


Here goes. I made bold the claim before presenting my remarks to it.

There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection.
(AI was the source for these stats)

• Suicidality Rates: Research indicates that 40-41% of LGBTQ+ youth seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year. Among transgender and nonbinary individuals specifically, the rate of lifetime suicide attempts is approximately 40%.
• Drivers of Risk: Higher suicide risk is not inherent to being LGBTQ+ but is driven by minority stress, including societal rejection, discrimination, and family disapproval. LGBTQ+ youth experiencing housing instability or physical harm are 12 times more likely to attempt suicide.
• Early Identity: Studies and clinical reports show that some children express gender identity preferences as early as 3 to 5 years old.
• Intersex Prevalence: Biological intersex traits occur in roughly 1 in 1,500 to 1 in 2,000 births, though definitions of "ambiguous genitalia" vary [General medical consensus].
• Societal Vulnerabilities: LGBTQ+ individuals, particularly those from religious backgrounds, face disproportionate risks of housing instability, loss of employment, and social isolation upon coming out.
• Protective Factors: Access to affirming spaces and supportive adults significantly reduces suicide attempts among LGBTQ+ youth.

(genocide)
That this term was added to a post referring to suicide,and given it's definition,it is clearly there in hopes of making a false inflammatory ad hominem attack against Christians and the heterosexual model.

Genocide:The defining feature is the intent to destroy a group, not just individuals, often driven by ideology.

The Holocaust was an act of Genocide. LGBTQ self murder is not.

- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
Parental influence significantly shapes a child's gender expression (how they outwardly present gender) through modeling, communication, and enforcing stereotypes, but a child's innate gender identity (their internal sense of self as male, female, both, or neither) is generally considered a core part of them that isn't easily changed by parents, though supportive families can foster healthy expression and acceptance, while unsupportive ones may lead children to hide their true selves. While parents are primary agents of socialization, peers, media, and culture also play major roles, and children can even influence parental views, especially in accepting LGBTQ+ identities.


- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
The statement that 1 in 1,500 children are born with visibly ambiguous genitalia is accurate, though the overall rate for all intersex traits is higher. The definition of "intersex" can vary, leading to different statistical estimates.

Prevalence of Intersex Traits

• Visibly Atypical Genitalia: When referring specifically to newborns with genitalia that are difficult to classify as clearly male or female at birth, the rate is about 1 in 1,500 to 1 in 2,000 live births.
• All Intersex Traits: A broader definition, which includes a wide range of conditions affecting chromosomes, gonads, internal organs, or hormones (some of which may not be apparent until puberty or later in life), leads to an estimated prevalence of up to 1.7% of all live births. This is a widely quoted figure used by many intersex advocates and human rights organizations, such as the UN Free & Equal campaign and the Human Rights Campaign.

- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.

The statement is a simplified and medically inaccurate explanation of both concepts, and does not fully align with scientific or psychological consensus [1].
Here is a breakdown of why this narrative is considered "false" by many experts:

• Birth Sex is determined by a complex interplay of chromosomes, hormones, and physical anatomy (genitalia, reproductive organs, etc.), not solely by external appearance at birth [1].
• Gender Identity is a person's internal, deeply held sense of their own gender—whether they are a man, a woman, a blend of both, or neither [1]. It is a complex interaction of biological factors (including brain structure and function), environmental influences, and personal experience, and is not simply "determined" in the brain in the way the narrative suggests [1].

Major medical and psychological associations, such as the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association, recognize that gender identity is a multifaceted construct that is distinct from assigned sex at birth and can develop in various ways.

- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing family, friends, church, employment, housing...
Homosexuality and Transgender dysfunction are abominable sins in God's eyes. For Christians,it is a given that we cannot support nor encourage open sin.
This doesn't mean we should turn our back on the hope the open blatant sinner turn away and turn to God.

In matters of the claim of their losing housing, the 2020 case Bostock v. Clayton County, insures LGBTW are a protected class.

Which means, LGBTQ employment and housing discrimination is illegal. And as such affords legal recourse for those discriminated against.


- Many gay couples are monogamous,
Irrelevant. They're sinning persistently.
and great contributors to our society.
Good for them. It does not overcome the fact they are sinners in a wilful son state.

 

[JesusFan]

I thought to take the OP points for clarification.
I hope it isn't often that we find those who excuse sinful behavior and call for its tolerance.


Here goes. I made bold the claim before presenting my remarks to it.

There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection.
(AI was the source for these stats)

• Suicidality Rates: Research indicates that 40-41% of LGBTQ+ youth seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year. Among transgender and nonbinary individuals specifically, the rate of lifetime suicide attempts is approximately 40%.
• Drivers of Risk: Higher suicide risk is not inherent to being LGBTQ+ but is driven by minority stress, including societal rejection, discrimination, and family disapproval. LGBTQ+ youth experiencing housing instability or physical harm are 12 times more likely to attempt suicide.
• Early Identity: Studies and clinical reports show that some children express gender identity preferences as early as 3 to 5 years old.
• Intersex Prevalence: Biological intersex traits occur in roughly 1 in 1,500 to 1 in 2,000 births, though definitions of "ambiguous genitalia" vary [General medical consensus].
• Societal Vulnerabilities: LGBTQ+ individuals, particularly those from religious backgrounds, face disproportionate risks of housing instability, loss of employment, and social isolation upon coming out.
• Protective Factors: Access to affirming spaces and supportive adults significantly reduces suicide attempts among LGBTQ+ youth.

(genocide)
That this term was added to a post referring to suicide,and given it's definition,it is clearly there in hopes of making a false inflammatory ad hominem attack against Christians and the heterosexual model.

Genocide:The defining feature is the intent to destroy a group, not just individuals, often driven by ideology.

The Holocaust was an act of Genocide. LGBTQ self murder is not.

- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
Parental influence significantly shapes a child's gender expression (how they outwardly present gender) through modeling, communication, and enforcing stereotypes, but a child's innate gender identity (their internal sense of self as male, female, both, or neither) is generally considered a core part of them that isn't easily changed by parents, though supportive families can foster healthy expression and acceptance, while unsupportive ones may lead children to hide their true selves. While parents are primary agents of socialization, peers, media, and culture also play major roles, and children can even influence parental views, especially in accepting LGBTQ+ identities.


- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
The statement that 1 in 1,500 children are born with visibly ambiguous genitalia is accurate, though the overall rate for all intersex traits is higher. The definition of "intersex" can vary, leading to different statistical estimates.

Prevalence of Intersex Traits

• Visibly Atypical Genitalia: When referring specifically to newborns with genitalia that are difficult to classify as clearly male or female at birth, the rate is about 1 in 1,500 to 1 in 2,000 live births.
• All Intersex Traits: A broader definition, which includes a wide range of conditions affecting chromosomes, gonads, internal organs, or hormones (some of which may not be apparent until puberty or later in life), leads to an estimated prevalence of up to 1.7% of all live births. This is a widely quoted figure used by many intersex advocates and human rights organizations, such as the UN Free & Equal campaign and the Human Rights Campaign.

- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.

The statement is a simplified and medically inaccurate explanation of both concepts, and does not fully align with scientific or psychological consensus [1].
Here is a breakdown of why this narrative is considered "false" by many experts:

• Birth Sex is determined by a complex interplay of chromosomes, hormones, and physical anatomy (genitalia, reproductive organs, etc.), not solely by external appearance at birth [1].
• Gender Identity is a person's internal, deeply held sense of their own gender—whether they are a man, a woman, a blend of both, or neither [1]. It is a complex interaction of biological factors (including brain structure and function), environmental influences, and personal experience, and is not simply "determined" in the brain in the way the narrative suggests [1].

Major medical and psychological associations, such as the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association, recognize that gender identity is a multifaceted construct that is distinct from assigned sex at birth and can develop in various ways.

- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing family, friends, church, employment, housing...
Homosexuality and Transgender dysfunction are abominable sins in God's eyes. For Christians,it is a given that we cannot support nor encourage open sin.
This doesn't mean we should turn our back on the hope the open blatant sinner turn away and turn to God.

In matters of the claim of their losing housing, the 2020 case Bostock v. Clayton County, insures LGBTW are a protected class.

Which means, LGBTQ employment and housing discrimination is illegal. And as such affords legal recourse for those discriminated against.


- Many gay couples are monogamous,
Irrelevant. They're sinning persistently.
and great contributors to our society.
Good for them. It does not overcome the fact they are sinners in a wilful son state.

God only recognized 2 genders, and he created everyone to be the right gender

 

[Button]

God only recognized 2 genders, and he created everyone to be the right gender

A very short simple and Biblical refutation of the OP proposal.

 

[shepherdsword]

A very short simple and Biblical refutation of the OP proposal.

Wishful thinking but the OP will respond with rare genetic and biochemical abnormalities to obfuscate the issue. Similar to the way abortionists use rape and incest as justification for all abortions.

 

[Button]

Wishful thinking but the OP will respond with rare genetic and biochemical abnormalities to obfuscate the issue. Similar to the way abortionists use rape and incest as justification for all abortions.

We will have to wait and see.
He's put me on ignore so he doesn't read my posts. But,I see his still.

I'd asked him ,and prior to his ignoring me, why he posts OP's that seem to argue against the Bible. I'm recalling from memory. That's not my question verbatim.

As I recall he answered with the claim he was trying to reconcile issues he has with the Bible so as to fortify his way back to his faith.

After that, I decided to look at his other threads.

I don't think he was being honest. His threads carry a common thread. And his replies to posts further that theme.
He sounds like he's criticizing and condoning the Bible teachings he chooses.
When we answer his threads from a biblical perspective, he challenges our belief and the defense of thread topics using God's word.

And,for me,labeling ones self after our first martyr is insulting to Stephen and his legacy.

 

[GodsGrace]

God only recognized 2 genders, and he created everyone to be the right gender

Hi JesusFan
I haven't really read the entire OP and am responding only to your statement above.
I agree with you that there are only two genders...
However, did you know that in .01, ore even less, of births a baby is born intersex?
The dr must make a decision as to the gender the child will be. the correct term is sex.

If the dr chooses right. OK.
If not....

Just wanted to clarify that this does happen.

 

[Button]

Hi JesusFan
I haven't really read the entire OP and am responding only to your statement above.
I agree with you that there are only two genders...
However, did you know that in .01, ore even less, of births a baby is born intersex?
The dr must make a decision as to the gender the child will be. the correct term is sex.

If the dr chooses right. OK.
If not....

Just wanted to clarify that this does happen.

Intersex is a scientific term that describes all differences of sex biology within the animal kingdom that are not hermaphroditic.

More on intersex terminology - InterAction

There are two fundamental issues that must be considered when considering terminology around intersex. Intersex is a scientific term that describes all differences of sex biology within the animal kingdom that are not hermaphroditic...

interaction.org.au

 

[GodsGrace]

Intersex is a scientific term that describes all differences of sex biology within the animal kingdom that are not hermaphroditic.

More on intersex terminology - InterAction

There are two fundamental issues that must be considered when considering terminology around intersex. Intersex is a scientific term that describes all differences of sex biology within the animal kingdom that are not hermaphroditic...

interaction.org.au

Maybe I meant hermaphroditic?
I'll trust you on this.

I mean when a baby is born with both genitalia and the dr has to make a decision as to which to eliminate.

 

[St. SteVen]

God only recognized 2 genders, and he created everyone to be the right gender

Yes, God recognizes two genders, so do people with gender dysphoria.
Problem being, they have both of them.

 

[Button]

Maybe I meant hermaphroditic?
I'll trust you on this.

I mean when a baby is born with both genitalia and the dr has to make a decision as to which to eliminate.

It's Hermaphrodite still. Or,another term to use instead is,congenital eunuch. Because the term Hermaphrodite , is considered stigmatizing. Which is why the linked definition I earlier posted makes that distinction.

 

[St. SteVen]

Wishful thinking but the OP will respond with rare genetic and biochemical abnormalities to obfuscate the issue. Similar to the way abortionists use rape and incest as justification for all abortions.

So you disregard medically recognized genetic and biochemical abnormalities with your Bible thumping?
Are hormone imbalances from the Devil? - LOL

 

[St. SteVen]

God only recognized 2 genders, and he created everyone to be the right gender

Right. - LOL
Tell that to a 6'-5" 250 lb female with masculine features.
Or a 5"-2" effeminate male that weighs 98lbs wet.

 

[Button]

So you disregard medically recognized genetic and biochemical abnormalities with your Bible thumping?

That right there is the type of language that leads me to think,and contrary to what he's said earlier,he's trying to reconcile his questions regarding our faith so to find his way back.

Are hormone imbalances from the Devil? - LOL

Mockery.

Non-Christians aren't allowed to post in this area are they?

 

[St. SteVen]

And,for me,labeling ones self after our first martyr is insulting to Stephen and his legacy.

Steven is my actual name. So, there's that.

 

[shepherdsword]

So you disregard medically recognized genetic and biochemical abnormalities with your Bible thumping?
Are hormone imbalances from the Devil? - LOL

I disregard them when they are used as rare case examples to hide the fact that homosexuality and gender bending are both sins. I suggest you study more of the bible I thump. If your heart is right it will enlighten you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, God recognizes two genders, so do people with gender dysphoria.
Problem being, they have both of them.

I believe gender dysphoria is different than the condition I was addressing which is legitimate.
Maybe @Button could confirm?

Gender dysphoria is when a boy feels like he's a girl and V V.
It's feeling like one is the opposite sex.

This has grown dramatically in the past 10 years due to gender studies in schools in children as young as the first grade.
This has caused some children to become confused since they are not yet at an age where the understanding of sex is achieved. (I mean the male/female biology).

Some hospitals have allowed CHILDREN to have life-altering surgery.
Thier PARENTS allowed this because THEY ALSO have been brainwashed.

Elon Musk (is he intelligent? Maybe not enough?) was convinced by doctors that his son would DIE if they did not operate on him to change his sex. Can't remember his age but he was young...I think about 15. Musk regrets it now - it was a mistake.

Some children are rightly suing doctors and hospitals for butchering these children.
Jordon Peterson has called it butchering and I have to agree.

I think we've gone crazy as a society.
I think we need to get back to some kind of normalcy when a masculine girl was called a
tomboy and no operation was sought.