WWJD with LGBTQ?

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St. SteVen

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Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage
 
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St. SteVen

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He wouldn't tolerate their sin I can tell you that.
Did you read the OP (opening post) or are you ONLY responding to the topic title?

Didn't Jesus hang out with sinners?
Seems that you are casting judgment that He wouldn't.

Would you dare to watch this 18 minute video and give me your review? Thanks.


/
 
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St. SteVen

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--- PARODY ---

Church Greeter: Welcome to church!
Church Visitor: Thanks, my first time here.
Church Greeter: Great, we are glad you are here. One question...
Church Visitor: Uh, okay. What is it?
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+ ?
Church Visitor: Um... that's not one thing, that's at least seven things. ???
Church Greeter: We just ask that you leave that at the door when you enter this holy place.
Church Visitor: Seriously?
Church Greeter: Yes, the Bible tells us that those things are evil, we want no evil here.
Church Visitor: You do know that there is a HUGE difference between LGBQ and TIA, right?
Church Greeter: Nope, all one thing to us. Sinful, very sinful.
Church Visitor: You can argue that LGBQ is not genetic, but clearly TIA are genetic.
Church Greeter: Sorry, I'm not studied in these things.
Church Visitor: Obviously.
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+, or not?
Church Visitor: I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work. Goodbye.

Indeed. What's wrong with this picture?


/
 

St. SteVen

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--- PARODY ---

A straight son comes out to his gay parents.

Son: Dad, we need to talk.
Father: Sure son, what's on your mind?
Son: (gulp) I'm straight.
Father: Say what? ??? !!!
Son: That's right, I'm straight.
Father: Does your father know about this?
Son: No, I wanted to tell you first.
Father: I see. Better let me speak to him first.
Son: Thanks. I'm sorry, I don't mean to hurt either one of you.
Father: Yes, this is a disappointment. We thought we raised you right.
Son: You're fine. It's me. I can't deny my opposite sex attraction.
Father: What can I say? I remember coming out to my parents.
Son: Tell me what that was like.
Father: It was terrible. We didn't speak for years.
Son: Wow, I didn't know.
Father: I'm not going to treat you that way. I accept you as you are.
Son: (tears) Thanks, Dad. I love you.
Father: I'll speak with your father. Hopefully he will take it well too.
Son: I would like to bring my girlfriend home for Christmas.
Father: Whoa, you have a girlfriend? (gasp)
Son: Yes, of course.
Father: No worries. We'll get through this one step at a time.

/
 

Eternally Grateful

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I think God is prety clear what he thinks about it

Lev 18: 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Now how would I treat them? Like I would any other sinner. I would not judge them, I would try to lead them to Christ.

If they come to Christ, they should see what God says about that sin, and God should change them from that thinking (I have witnessed it happen by the way)

A practicing LGB person is in sin, just as a Practicing single person who is having sex with their BF/GF
 

St. SteVen

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Here are some specifics from the OP to respond to.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing, family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

/
 
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St. SteVen

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I think God is prety clear what he thinks about it

Lev 18: 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Thanks for joining us.
Who was that scripture written to and when?

Do we really have a good grasp on sexuality in ancient times?
A biblical case could be made for polygamy and for wives as personal property.

The problem with Solomon's wives was that they led him into idolatry.
I don't recall that polygamy was the problem.
But polygamy is illegal in the USA, except in Utah.
And we claim a biblical defense for the law, as I understand it.

Now how would I treat them? Like I would any other sinner. I would not judge them, I would try to lead them to Christ.

If they come to Christ, they should see what God says about that sin, and God should change them from that thinking (I have witnessed it happen by the way)
That's a good response. Pull them close, rather than push them away.

A practicing LGB person is in sin, just as a Practicing single person who is having sex with their BF/GF
Good point.
What is your position on transgender? (I see the T missing from LGBTQ)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.

/
 

Eternally Grateful

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Here are some specifics from the OP to respond to.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
I do not think society is rejecting them now. However. i do believe we need to see the root cause.. I know a few bi females. if you ask them, the reason they are bi or gay is because they have been abused by men,

I have known a few gay men who I saw grow up. In every case, they were children of single mothers and had no father, or was abused as a father so they look to men seeing for a father figure.

then of course. there are predators (Older men who go after young boys or younger men)
- Parental testimony indicates children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
All kids 3 to 5 have differing ideas. they are attempting to find out who they are. A few who have transgenered surgically. so they thought they were men because they liked boy things,, or vise versa. boys thought they were girls because they were feminine, and there is case after case of people saying social media pushed them to sex change or pushed them to claim to be a member of opposite sex.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
In these cases, their is still biological DNA of either a male or female.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
God determined male and female is based on biology. not what one thinks.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing, family, friends, church, employment, housing...
If we lived in a perfect christian community. People who turn to sin would risk the same thing.. God told the church to bring the person to the side. if he does nto listen, to bring a witness. if he again does nto listen. to bring him from the church. If he still refuses to listen to ask them to leave

Again, this goes for a person engaged in active LGB sex or a man living with his girlfriend in sexual sin.

Sadly I do agree. many churches would ask a LGB to leave, and not the heterose
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

/
Agree, But it is still sin.. we can not justify sin (in the church. not outside the church. again we should be loving to them and preach God to them so they can be saved, not judge them) even in the church.. we don;t judge them, we love them the way God says to. including discipline.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Thanks for joining us.
Who was that scripture written to and when?
Jesus the same yesterday today and tomorrow.

Yes, it was written to the jew, But it applies to us all

Do we really have a good grasp on sexuality in ancient times?
A biblical case could be made for polygamy and for wives as personal property.
See Sodom and Gomorrah
The problem with Solomon's wives was that they led him into idolatry.
I don't recall that polygamy was the problem.
But polygamy is illegal in the USA, except in Utah.
And we claim a biblical defense for the law, as I understand it.
The bible says the man and woman shall leave their parents, and they shall become one.

That is the biblical definition of Marriage

adding another person is called adultry

That's a good response. Pull them close, rather than push them away.
Yes. bring them to God.. Like you said, Jesus hung around with sinners
Good point.
What is your position on transgender? (I see the T missing from LGBTQ)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.

/
I think it is a mental disease, if I am honest.. and I think the reason it is so prevelent today is social media. people are being pushed.. I also believe it is the result of a society that has walked away from God (again see Sodom and Gomorrha)
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing, family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage
He would have the same reaction as He did with the crowd who wanted to stone the prostitute: "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" ... but then He said to her, "GO AND SIN NO MORE."
They continue with their lifestyle, they refuse to stop, so judgment will come.
>> Romans 1:24-28
 

St. SteVen

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I do not think society is rejecting them now.
They have made some strides in societal acceptance.
And the response of Christians is to line up at Pride marches with pickets signs declaring HATE.

All kids 3 to 5 have differing ideas. they are attempting to find out who they are.
Yes, find out who they are.

In these cases, their is still biological DNA of either a male or female.
That's a good point.
But there is still a chance that a child may be transgender.
We seem to tolerate Tomboys better than Pink boys.

God determined male and female is based on biology. not what one thinks.
Yes, in terms of birth sex.
But children have a mind of their own when it comes to which gender model they gravitate toward.

1698321164173.jpeg

Again, this goes for a person engaged in active LGB sex or a man living with his girlfriend in sexual sin.
Agree.

Agree, But it is still sin..
Too bad the church judges sin on a curve, when God see sin as PASS/FAIL. And we all fail.

/
 

St. SteVen

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The bible says the man and woman shall leave their parents, and they shall become one.

That is the biblical definition of Marriage

adding another person is called adultry
I think we tend to project western cultural norms onto the Bible.
In ancient cultures (Bible times) it was common to have multiple wives.
And concubines were common as well. Slaves kept for the purpose of sex.

I think it is a mental disease, if I am honest..
You have a right to your opinion. That's a really bad one. IMHO
But it mirrors most of the church's attitude, so it doesn't surprise me.
No worries, I still love you. - LOL

/
 

Eternally Grateful

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They have made some strides in societal acceptance.
And the response of Christians is to line up at Pride marches with pickets signs declaring HATE.
Have you seen some of these pride marches?

While I would not line up as hating.. Some of these marches and what goes on is sickening
Yes, find out who they are.
yes, are they a masculine male or feminine male
are they a feminine female or masculine female

sadly, I think society mocks these also. (a feminine male is automatically assume to be gay although he may not be..)
That's a good point.
But there is still a chance that a child may be transgender.
We seem to tolerate Tomboys better than Pink boys.
I do not agree with that term, A male is a male and a female is a female.. A man can not be a woman or vice versa.

Yes, in terms of birth sex.
But children have a mind of their own when it comes to which gender model they gravitate toward.

View attachment 37413


Agree.
again, a man is a man and a woman is a woman, what a person thinks he or she is is beside the point. we should not enable them
Too bad the church judges sin on a curve, when God see sin as PASS/FAIL. And we all fail.

/
AMEN!!!! I am 100% with you here!!
 

St. SteVen

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He would have the same reaction as He did with the crowd who wanted to stone the prostitute: "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" ... but then He said to her, "GO AND SIN NO MORE."
They continue with their lifestyle, they refuse to stop, so judgment will come.
>> Romans 1:24-28
What is your position on transgenderism?
Did you read the OP? (opening post)

/
 

Eternally Grateful

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I think we tend to project western cultural norms onto the Bible.
In ancient cultures (Bible times) it was common to have multiple wives.
And concubines were common as well. Slaves kept for the purpose of sex.
Yes. But that does not mean it was right biblically.

Gods definition of marriage was in the beginning

Gen 2: 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be[k] joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Jesus agrees -

Matt 19: 4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
You have a right to your opinion. That's a really bad one. IMHO
But it mirrors most of the church's attitude, so it doesn't surprise me.
No worries, I still love you. - LOL

/
Agree, it is an opinion. But it is based on what I have seen. and based on the word.

God does not make mistakes. would you not agree?

do you support male castration and surgically removing the breasts of young ladies?

just asking.. Because it its core, this is what transgenderism is.

as. Have you read the serious medical issues of a girl who was given a penis, or a male who was given a vagina have encountered? Not to mention their life expectancy being diminished..

again, just asking..
 

St. SteVen

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While I would not line up as hating.. Some of these marches and what goes on is sickening
Agree. Some disgusting behavior, on BOTH sides of the picket signs. IMO

yes, are they a masculine male or feminine male
are they a feminine female or masculine female
Agree.

I do not agree with that term,
Tomboy is a common term in our society. Nothing new there. And completely acceptable behavior.
Pink boy, on the other hand... UNacceptable behavior.

/
 
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Lambano

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There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)

I want to step carefully around this one, because my own life has been touched by good people who took their own lives (two of whom I have reason to suspect were closeted gays), and a friend recently lost someone dear to them who was gay to suicide.

The NIH and CDC websites say that gays have a significantly higher rate of suicide than their peers when adjusted for other demographics like age and race. The reports I see on the public websites don't give the exact numbers, but that's NOT the same as saying that 40% of gays end their lives by their own hand.

You know what they say: 57% of all statistics are just made up.

Helluva choice: A lifetime of loneliness, or being called an abomination. For those who have metaphorically "made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of God", they have my respect. "Not all men can accept this... The one who can accept this, let them accept it." (Matthew 19:11-12) And for those who cannot accept it... I understand.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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What is your position on transgenderism?
Did you read the OP? (opening post)

/
The NWO (influenced by Satan) has an agenda to depopulate the world. In 70 years the population has tripled. So they must find ways to thwart that growth: abortions, homosexuality, contraception, sterization (and death) through vaccines. Influencing kids to choose their sex at a young age, sets them up for operations which will permanently disable their ability to procreate ( before they realize their error).
God will soon intervene ... Judgment Day is at our doors.