Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Wrangler]

Except that you say one is not three, which suggests you don’t actually understand the doctrine. One can be three if they are referring to different things or categories.

LOL. Changing the reference is not how language works! In no logical construction is 1 apple properly construed to mean 1 orange + 1 banana + 1 strawberry.

It's one triangle with 3 sides; NOT 1 triangle consisting of 3 3-sided shapes.

And it's not except I say one is not three AS IF it is a personal statement I am making.

 

[Wrangler]

One God cannot be three Gods, nor can one person be three persons. But it doesn’t logically follow that one God cannot be three persons.

I'm afraid it does. You keep trying to parse synonyms and nowhere does 3 evolve from one as opposed to any other non-unity number.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

One can be three if they are referring to different things or categories.

In God's case He is ONE being with 3 parts - Father, Word, Spirit (1 John 5:7)

God made man in His Own Image and man is ONE being with 3 parts - spirit, soul, body (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

Whatever you do, don't let what God says in His Word get in the way of what you believe... you'll make the devil mad if you start believing what God says in His Word.

 

[Justified]

In God's case He is ONE being with 3 parts - Father, Word, Spirit (1 John 5:7)

God made man in His Own Image and man is ONE being with 3 parts - spirit, soul, body (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

Whatever you do, don't let what God says in His Word get in the way of what you believe... you'll make the devil mad if you start believing what God says in His Word.
View attachment 78903

God is not three parts that make a whole, as that would mean each is needed to make God—take one away and he ceases to be God or ceases to be. Each person is truly and fully God.

 

[Justified]

LOL. Changing the reference is not how language works! In no logical construction is 1 apple properly construed to mean 1 orange + 1 banana + 1 strawberry.

It's one triangle with 3 sides; NOT 1 triangle consisting of 3 3-sided shapes.

And it's not except I say one is not three AS IF it is a personal statement I am making.

Those are false analogies. Your reasoning here is poor, likely based on what strongly appears to be a lack of understanding the doctrine of the Trinity.

My point is that, philosophically speaking, you’re making a category error. You cannot equate one and three when they are referring to different categories.

I'm afraid it does.

No, it really doesn’t.

You keep trying to parse synonyms and nowhere does 3 evolve from one as opposed to any other non-unity number.

I’ve never said three evolves from one.

 

[Justified]

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

What part of 1 John 5:7 were you having trouble understanding???

I reject that verse as it is written in the KJV. It states truth, sure, but it is far too developed to have likely been original.

 

[Grailhunter]

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

Maybe take a class on reading comprehension at the local elementary school so you can get caught up.

LOL
1st John 5:7-----For there are three that testify:
Yeap they all testify.
You are a slow learner.....another one falls for the Johannine comma addition scam.

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 78879

Verily verily do i type unto us all
that the love i see in many
sure seems to give a pass to much sin
sure seems to make a broad road of unbelief
And about the only thing this love i see in many seems to hate is
Drum roll please ,,,,,,,,,THOSE who bring the words of truth IN that bible which does so expose their sins
and the sins of others .
About the only thing their love DOES NOT accept ,
will not tolerate
Will not just hug and get along and Overlook
IS the v ery TRUTH of the scriptures . They will make just about any excuse they can
for unrepentant sinners
even for false religoins
But if a man brings biblical truth , ITS AWAY with you , you judgmental hater and monster who does not know GOD or love .
Sadly i just summed up todays love that many beleive is the LOVE of GOD . only
it aint . its the love of the world , the love of a god who has twisted the TRUTH into a lie
that is all accepting , UNLESS IS BE THE SCRIPTURES and those who bring them .
Now if this seems a bit harsh or perhaps some might think ol amigo has lost what little mind he had left .
THEN BRING a bible into these so called churches that h oller love hundreds of times daily
and you see IF THEY LOVE them scrips . or rather will they not say , HEY we love , and act as though
the very words OF GOD himself that was brought is somehow HATEFUL and hate speech .

 

[Grailhunter]

I see so you claim to be multiple personalities named "Bill and Joe and Larry"

No, can you read, I said persons.

 

[amigo de christo]

I reject that verse as it is written in the KJV. It states truth, sure, but it is far too developed to have likely been original.

verily verily i do type unto thee
HOW COME what many now call original today
as they boot out bibles like THE KJV
SURE SEEMS far more accepting of sins and even unbelief
AS what was written IN the KJV .
WE been Duped big time .
I sure seem to notice that what most try and call original
and always attack the kjv
SURE DO SEEM far more accepting of sin
WONT correct sin
Wont even correct unbeleif .
ODD . CAUSE JESUS SURE DID , THE APOSTELS SURE DID
And try reading the prophets , THEY SURE DID correct error and sin .
TODAY , YEAH , DIDNT THINK SO .
this generation will accept almost anything ,
Under the guise of love
but boy howdy when one examines this love
THEY notice IT DARN SURE SEEMS to hate THE TRUTH that DO EXPOSE their sins , unbeleif .
Ever get the feeling we been duped . WE HAVE . yet many love the love of a harlot
who has fed men another image of GOd and of love
WHICH sure do overlook sins and errors and UNBELIF , but MAN it wont over look TRUTH , NO it attack that
As though ITS hate .

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

I have now listened to this second video and in the process I took fairly thorough reference notes to indicate what passage was being discussed and what time on the video he speaks of this particular passage or concept. He likes to use the phrase as his theme "The Mysterious Unity of God". I consider that the subject has been to some extent hidden, but has now been fully revealed in Jesus.

I believe that THE MYSERIOUS UNITY OF GOD is referring to how God is shown to be either more than one Person
or
to be in more than one place at the same time.. which would also indicate that He is more than one Person.

And this in the Old Testament...showing that God has always been a plurality.

I will briefly mention a few things. He seeks to counter the idea that "Jesus is just a man whom God adopted as His Son". I also reject this notion as I believe that Jesus is a human, The Son of God by birth, character and resurrection - no adoption here.

OK
We agree re the Adoptinism heresy.
But Christian theology does state that the 2nd Person of the Trinity has always existed,
so we do not agree here.

The point of the Trinity is to show that Jesus always existed.
Also the Son of God as you understand it doesn't address the fact that Jesus acted both as a human and as divine.

I believe I've posted scripture to show both natures.
God is unique and cannot be fully understood.
Everything has only one nature....
Jesus demonstrated that He had two and this was explained through the Trinity.

He goes to some length to speak of how God is in two places at once, dwelling in the Tabernacle or Temple and at the same time in Heaven. I find this very shallow reasoning. He then compares this with John 1:14. Jesus is truly the fulfillment of ALL that was depicted in the Tabernacle and Temple.

We see this also in the burning bush in Exodus.
Also in the story of Sodom and Gemmorah.

Exodus 3:1-4
1 Now Moses was pasturing the flock of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the [a]west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God.

2 Then the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of [b]a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not being consumed.


3 So Moses said, “I must turn aside and see this [c]marvelous sight, why the bush is not burning up!”
4 When the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”


Genesis 19:24
24 Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven,

Seems that there are two LORD's.

He recalls his theme by stating the Mysterious Unity of God in Creation when considering Genesis 1;26. I have already mentioned that I believe that God is conversing with the Angels.

This is possible.
Although it must be said that angels cannot create and God said LET US MAKE....
as if the one God was speaking to could participate in the creation.

Some say that this was to show God's humility (his enjoining the angels).
God is required to show His humility??
And to angels...which HE created??

He mentions Proverbs 8:27-31 and states that there was a person with God in the creation and he calls this person "Lady Wisdom", but he does not really explain this as a personification of God's Wisdom.

I don't know enough about this and I don't believe it has anything to do with the Trinity
but this is just my OPINION.

Other passages that he mentions are Exodus 3:2-8, Judges 6, Genesis 18 and Exodus 33:18-23. Instead of clarifying these, they are used to obscure what can be understood in order to paint a picture of Mystery.

He also spends some time in the NT mainly showing that the Yahweh Name is applied to Jesus, and I agree with this, but not the way he understands this. Refer to my thread "The Yahweh Name".

Kind regards
Trevor

Thanks for your reply.
Will be reading some more of your thread in the morning.

 

[GodsGrace]

Theology is about words and you are hung up on the words of men rather than what the scriptures teach.
Your favorite phrase....Jesus is God....is nowhere to be found in the scriptures but in your mind and only in your mind it is. Doctrine before scriptures is the Catholic way.

WHY do you keep bringing up Catholicism?
At least you confirm that the Catholic religion IS the original religion.
We can agree on that.

Every Christian denomination believe Jesus is God and teaches this.
So WHY do you believe it's in my mind?
I'M the one following what Christianity teaches...
NOT YOU!

You believe there are two Gods.
Have you understood the shema?

There is only one God GH.

It is amazing to me that you say it was always taught that Jesus is God.......Yeap taught by men....not by Yeshua or the Apostles....taught by the Catholic Church.....

Please explain the following:

Hebrews 2:
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Has God always had His grace?
Has God's grace always been an attribute of HIs?
HIS GRACE HAS APPEARD.



14 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,


Are translators so dumb as to place the comma after the wrong word?
Besides, it would not make a difference.

Peter said....You are the Son of the Living God.
The Apostles called Him Lord.
Yeshua called Yahweh His Father and His God.

You can't get over this.
While Jesus was on earth...the Father was in Heaven.
Father is the father of the Son!

I posted about Yaweh being the first and the last.
I posted scripture showing that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega..the first and the last.

Jesus is Yeshua.
Yeshua is Yaweh.


Do you trust ANY Christian?

The truth is there if you want to know the truth.....but making statements like "always" mean it is clear.....
What you believe is only clear in man made doctrine.

They have eyes but cannot see and they have ears but cannot hear.....

There is 1 Godhead that consist of 3 full-fledged Gods that sit on 3 thrones in Heaven and Yeshua sits to the right of Yahweh. Praise God.....

The above would be right if we change the word GODS (which is pure heresy)
to PERSONS.

IOW
THERE IS ONE GODHEAD THAT CONSISTS OF 3 FULL-FLEDGED PERSONS.

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem is that you believe things are there that are not there.
You are loyal to doctrine and not scriptures. And you think they say things that they do not.
It was not hard to come up with over hundred scriptures.....and a Father says He is pleased with HIs Son....
that it 2 people my gosh!!! Just common sense. The Father loves the Son....He does not love Himself.....that is clear.....Love cannot exist with 1 person. What you believe is not. Yahweh begot a Son.....He did not beget Himself.....clear and truth but it is hard for you to understand and accept. Because your mind is all mucked up with teaching of doctrine.....

View attachment 78875

OK

You need more scriptures?

Try these:

Only because The Lord Jesus Christ Is Almighty God do we have
reassurance that He can save His elect from eternal damnation
and eternal torment.

1 Jesus Is The Visible Image of The Invisible God - Colossians 1:15;
2 Corinthians 4:4. To see Jesus Is to see The Invisible God - man Was
Created In The Image of God - Genesis 1:26. Jesus Is The Image Of
God. To see Jesus Is to see The Invisible God In The Flesh.

2 Jesus Was Conceived By God - Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:20. Since
Mary was His earthly mother, That Makes Jesus Fully Human; since
God Was His Spiritual Father, and since Jesus did not have an earthly
father, That Makes Jesus Fully God. He Was Fully Man And Fully God.
The Great GodMan.

3 To see Jesus' Face is to see The Glory Of God 2 Corinthians 4:6

4 Jesus "Being In The Form Of God" Makes Him God Philippians 2:6

5 Jesus Being The Brightness Of The Father's Glory Hebrews 1:3

6 Jesus Is The Exact Image Of The Father's Person Hebrews 1:3

7 That is why to "see Jesus" is to "see The Father"
John 14:9, John 12:45

8 That is why Jesus Said He and His Father Are One John 10:30

9 Jesus is In The Bosom of the Father - John 1:18. Not "on the bosom,"
not "near the bosom,” But, “...In The Bosom…” - He Is In The Center Of
The Father. They are "One!"

10 He Is Called Everlasting Father Isaiah 9:6

11 Jesus Deserves The Same Honour As The Father John 5:23

12 Jesus was worshipped! Matthew 2:11, Matthew 9:18, Matthew 14:33,
Matthew 28:9; Luke 24:52 Since Only God is to be worshipped!
Matthew 4:10, That Means Jesus Is God!!

13 Even All the angels worship Jesus Hebrews 1:6
Thus The Lord Jesus Christ is not Michael, the archangel.

14 Heavenly creatures fall down Before The Lamb Revelation 5:8

15 Jesus Created All things! Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2; John 1:3;
Ephesians 3:9. God Created all things!! Psalms 102:24-25; Acts 14:15;
Isaiah 45:18, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 42:5. Jesus Is God!

16 Jesus Also Made the world John 1:10. Jesus Is God Isaiah 44:24

17 Jesus Created all things for Himself Colossians 1:16
Jesus Is God Proverbs 16:4
18 By Jesus all things consist Colossians 1:17

19 Jesus Upholds all things Hebrews 1:3

20 Jesus Is Before all things Colossians 1:17


There are plenty more...
courtesy of @GRACE ambassador

 

[GodsGrace]

More and more it is becoming the mindset of mainstream churches ,
that those who keep and adhere to the core fundam ental teachings
are seen as NOT being christian , not be loving , but being even haters .
THIS will be seen even with the very gospel , as even now
when i have tried to warn , as have others , that all other religoins are not of GOD
they are calling for the judge not hate not card and believing that even these false religoins
somehow know GOD too . ITS getting worse all the time and will get only worse .
SOON the merged realm of this ecumeincal work ,
will call for the crusades once again . And beleive me when i say
it will be against the sheep who did not conform to their image of what they beleived was loving , was love and was GOD .
its gonna peak .

It would seem that accepting everything out of love would be a good thing.
But it's NOT.
Even in normal everyday life situations.

Love is teaching the truth...
it is NOT teaching a lie just to make the other person feel good.

 

[Grailhunter]

WHY do you keep bringing up Catholicism?
At least you confirm that the Catholic religion IS the original religion.
We can agree on that.

Every Christian denomination believe Jesus is God and teaches this.
So WHY do you believe it's in my mind?
I'M the one following what Christianity teaches...
NOT YOU!

You believe there are two Gods.
Have you understood the shema?

There is only one God GH.

I do not confirm the Catholic Church is the original religion. You have been taught a bunch of lies.
The Catholic Church was established during the Ecumenical Councils and at the time the head of that Church was Emperor Constantine. That is way people call it the Roman Catholic Church. And then later on words like Pope and Bishop came into use. The Roman Empire enforced all doctrines that the Ecumenical Councils established.

The 12 Apostles....the Jewish Christians did not continue their lineage. They pretty much died out by the end of the 1st century. The Catholic Church started re-writing history, trying to connect to the Apostle Peter but then embraced the teaching of Paul. Re-writing history is bad practice because you end up looking like a liar then all of what you are teaching falls into question. Pope and Bishop are English words, the ECF's wrote in Greek and Latin. But if you look up a word like Bishop it will give a more modern Latin word. The ECF's refereed to religious leaders as episcopus, from Greek episkopos "watcher, (spiritual) overseer. The words Pope and Bishop do not appear in the actual texts. It would be like calling Constitine president.

Most of the history of the Catholic Church was filled with horror and corruption. After Vatican II the Catholic Church affirmed all that and apologized for a lot of it. Today the Catholic Church is better than it ever has been. Like I always say I would not give you two cents for the Vatican. They still have problems but what denomination does not have problems.

 

[Grailhunter]

Please explain the following:

Hebrews 2:
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Has God always had His grace?
Has God's grace always been an attribute of HIs?
HIS GRACE HAS APPEARD.

Grace is a deep topic....it you want to discuss it, first you need to look up all the Christian definitions of it.

 

[Grailhunter]

14 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

President Trump and our sheriff. People want to forget the AND, even after they have read that Yeshua referred to Yahweh as His God.... The Great God is Yahweh and the savior Christ Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually salvation is by grace THRU FAITH

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

No faith = no grace = no salvation

Thanks for the info BB.
I'll try to remember it.

Many today don't actually walk in faith and are falsely taught they are still saved.

Agreed.

I been understanding the gospel when you were still in diapers!




I was understanding the gospel back when you were just a twinkle in your daddy's eye!

Thanks for the compliment BB!
A girl could use all the compliments she can get !





But you must be one heck of an old dude!

Is this why you bow down in worship to him because he uses great swelling works that excite you so much that you duck bumps? View attachment 78896

Those that accept the the Holy Spirit as their Teacher don't bow down to people that have framed degrees on their wall that demand everyone address them as "doctor", "professor", or "pastor"

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Well BB,
Let's see YOUR explanation of the Trinity.
You're just jealous because Wes is young and healthy and super intelligent and has muscles and is just
sooooo cute!!!

Yeah....
This must be why I keep posting his explanation of the Trinity.

I think I'll do it again...

 

[Grailhunter]

While Jesus was on earth...the Father was in Heaven.

But the scriptures do not say that......And Jesus said, And while I am on earth the Father is greater than I. But when I get to Heaven I will kick Him off His throne and I will be God Almighty. Make it up as you go....at least it will show imagination.

 

[Grailhunter]

THERE IS ONE GODHEAD THAT CONSISTS OF 3 FULL-FLEDGED PERSONS.

Nope.....There is one Godhead that consists of 3 full-fledged Gods.....namely Yahweh and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit and they sit on thrones next to each other. I wonder do think the Gods fell into a blender or something?
How do you think it all happened? Three headed God. Do they have one head? Hocus pocus and abracadabra!