WWJD with LGBTQ?

[Hillsage]

Your above post moves me to copy paste my testimony on this WHOLE thread. It happened last October on our way to Branson Mo. I include the WORDS INSPIRED FROM GOD TO ME. IMO. I am not a cessationist. It is long and will have to be posted in two posts. But I prophesy it will be deemed worth the read.


Part 1.
We have had this family reunion at Branson/Silver Dollar City for 50 years, . We always hug the whole family (20-28 now) after getting there and they all hug us. And we hug ALL on our last goodbye, before leaving. That included our nephew who came out of 'the homo closet' 20 years ago and is now 40. Several weeks before going to Branson this time, we found out 'Gay1 (nephew)' was bringing his fiance 'Gay2'....wait, would that be fiance or fiancee. Wow, intrigue already mixed in.

So, my wife and I have to have a 'discussion' concerning what we recently learned from a recent church blowup on the subject. We had firmly decided you love the sinner like Jesus did, but you don't condone 'the sin' either, like Jesus did. Karen also asked me about do you go to the wedding. My wife has a bigger heart than I do, no surprises HERE. But she also knows that I have the bigger spiritual head. I told her "Going is condoning the sin." That was hard because I do love him (nephew) and always have.

QUESTION ONE FOR WHOEVER IS READING SO FAR
Where are you with my 1st conclusion: "Love the SINNER but not the SIN?". Are you good with that as a working foundation to build upon? Or do we need to discuss 'that point' any further?

Part 2:
We got to Branson and our 27 YO granddaughter came with us. We meet 'Gay1' and his fiance 'Gay2'. I give G1 a hug as always. I turn to G2 who seemed to almost be cowering by our nephew. My heart felt for him, they have no idea how this next step of marriage is going to be received. My wife, granddaughter and I have the same agreement, Love the sinner don't condone the sin. Anyway G2 is not married and therefore not a relative yet. So I turn to him and offer my hand. He takes it, and I can feel his tension. That night my granddaughter asks question two. If we can't go to the wedding, can we send a gift? I said 'J' what's the difference between 'going' to the wedding or sending a wedding gift. Either way it's supporting 'a homosexual wedding'.

That decision was hard, but it was especially hard for 'J' who's grown up in a different 'day' than I was raised in, but truth does not change what sin is. She also was treated so well growing up by G1 and his 4 brothers who loved her like a little sister. And this was all before anything homosexual was even on the radar.

QUESTION TWO
So, where are you at with my Part 2 decision of not even sending a gift to their wedding? Would you agree or disagree. Loving the sinner hating the sin, RIGHT?

Part 3:
We all go out to eat at a restaurant that night with my wife, daughter, granddaughter sitting at a table with Gay1 & 2 who share the same story at their table as Gay1's dad is sharing at our booth with me, my son and my grand son in law. That story was; that G1 & 2 have both hired to surrogates and sent sperm for the present pregnancy of their 2 children who will be born after their wedding. I'm from the sticks and I have never even heard of such a thing. I am stunned.

Next morning my wife, granddaughter and I have another discussion after confirming the same conversation of both tables. My granddaughter, who considers me the spiritual talking head of the family asks another question: "Papa, are we going to refuse to hold their babies?" My heart was pierced immediately as my mind raced to the justification of my first two conclusions. They are innocent babies, will they raise them and 'groom' them to the sin or will they raise them to choose on their own. Will just being raised in that house, and feeling the rejection of their Papas, push them one way or the other. I finally had to answer my granddaughter and say; "I don't know what to say I have no answer I am going to have to hear from God on this." Thank God He answered pretty quickly. And His word was; "G1 has always been 'family' and not just 'a relative'." That brief word spoke volumes to me in an instant. And I responded; "I am changing my opinion, Yes! you can go the wedding, yes you can send a gift and yes you can hold that innocent baby. And no we are not changing our opinion of what is sin." If we were to refuse their wedding and gifts we would just be treating them like relatives and why would they even 'want to' or 'let us' hold their innocent babies. The bridge of truth , to 'minister truth to them' can not carry any heavier truth, than the 'bridge of trust' can hold. That day was spent at Silver Dollar City enjoying all it had to offer, as a family with a new face, that of a fiancee! The next morning we were saying our goodbyes with all four points of the compass pointing to the directions of the family plus one would be going that day. We met at G1 and G2's motel door for our final goodbye. G1 and I hugged again as we always had. I then turned to G2 and opened my arms just enough to be asking the question; 'the ball is in your court.' He took a small step toward me with no hand raised to shake. I stepped forward and gave him a hug. And my heart broke again as I fell the quivering of his whole body. But this time, maybe slightly less than our first hand shake.

 

[Hillsage]

QUESTION THREE
So, where do you stand with my part 3 decision? Was I right, was I wrong. All I can say is I will choose this step and stand before Jesus on the day of judgment for all the words I have spoke and all of the deeds I have done and await His judgment on me.

Part 4:
We went home and I immediately shared this same decision with my younger brother who was a church elder for 20 years. I also shared it with a younger man I have coffee with every week. And I also shared on the phone with two strong Christian mothers. And I watched the 2 faces when I hit them with my processing of part 3. The facial impacts were obvious on the two males. Who then proceeded to justify holding their course, but also justifying the holding of the babies. I told them, I understand and I know mine will be a minority decision. But I did qualify that by saying this is my position this time, and in this case. I am not saying it would apply to any other homosexual case, because they are not family.

When I told the last mother on the phone of my story she immediately blurted out; "Where did your granddaughter ever come up with such a mature question?" I admitted I had no idea, and we then discussed this divisive church problem for another hour before hanging up. That night laid awake still wrestling with the impact of 'that question'. Finally sleep came....until later that night when I awoke to that burning question, again. So, "I sought the Lord and He answered." Psa 34:4 He said; 'That question came, from the 'heart' of a BASTARD.' I was immediately shocked and admittedly a 'little' bit mad that God called my granddaughter that 'cuss-word name'. Then, He spoke again and said; 'Your granddaughter was born out of wedlock.' I was awestruck, that was 'the truth'.

I spent time that night processing how 'her heart' had been formed, affected, defected with the words of kids (secular or church), TV and whatever else she faced growing up in this world. The next morning I shared with my wife what I believed was a 'spoken word' from God confirming the decision I had made. I told her I was going to share 'that word' with the four I had first told the story to. Karen said are you going to call her 'that'? I said; 'GOD DID!' (IMO). She said you need to ask her if you can. So I called her immediately and asked. There was just a hint of hesitation, and I wondered what is her heart going to say? For out of the heart the mouth speaks. She gave a yes, but her voice betrayed a little bit of I'm giving you the answer I know you want to hear. But that was good enough for me, and I headed to the coffee shop trying to imagine the text I was going to send to the mother. I parked at Patrick Dugan's coffee shop and texted. All of a sudden I hear a knock on my window startling me a little bit. Who was it? It was my granddaughter and a co worker coming for coffee. I told her I was finishing a text to Jewel and would be in shortly. When I did enter, her and the coworker had ordered and were waiting and the line was long with several coming in just before I hit the door. So I went over to talk to the girls. My Granddaughter asked to step outside where it was quieter and she shared a heart wrenching story from her fifth grade year in school. An event which she had never shared with anyone before and it plagued her. She was able to share this emotional event from the past which was buried alive in her heart, just exactly where the devil keeps his chains of authority....'in the dark'. She brought that to the light and she said her heart felt so much better.

QUESTION FOUR

This last story has two possibilities; A co-incidence....or a GOD-incidence. I'm believing it was God. But we ALL have our own decisions to make, and live with, until the day that HE will let us ALL know. Because on that day we will know, even as He has known us.

1CO 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1PE 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your HEARTS and always be ready TO GIVE A DEFENSE TO EVERYONE who asks you A REASON FOR THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU WITH MEEKNESS AND FEAR; 16 having a good conscience, that when they DEFAME you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.17 For it is better, IF IT IS THE WILL OF GOD, to SUFFER for doing good than for DOING EVIL.

"As for me and my house." Our decisions did come from our "HEARTS" suffering with my first foundational platform. I am now willing "TO GIVE A DEFENSE TO EVERYONE" for where We've landed with "A REASON FOR THE HOPE THAT IS IN US." And we stand "WITH MEEKNESS AND FEAR" before God that we truly did hear "IF IT IS, THE WILL OF GOD", to the point that we'll endure the "SUFFERING" from all those reading that might disagree and "DEFAME" our opinions
now, as "DOING EVIL".

 

[St. SteVen]

You say it does little but what experience do you actually have in this area? How many have you counseled? How many have you actually sent for medical treatment for hormonal imbalance? What is your success rate? If they already know the Lord then they already have all they need to overcome. They just need to be encouraged to do so.

That's a cheap shot.
My comments don't count because I don't have a successful ministry?
That's ridiculous.

Everything I have suggested is completely reasonable.

 

[shepherdsword]

Everything I have suggested is completely reasonable.

Translation: I have only an opinion without results to verify it.

 

[Button]

Translation: I have only an opinion without results to verify it.

@Taken,
I hope I'm recalling the right name.

Remember how you've posted to me in commentary regarding a post that wasn't actually mine? Twice?

I just got the alert that said @shepherdsword quoted my post in this thread.
I follow that alert link and the above is actually the one whom @shepherdsword quoted.

Wild,huh?

 

[St. SteVen]

Translation: I have only an opinion without results to verify it.

I suppose you could ask this fellow? (he wrote a book too - over 100k sold)

How Can the Church Help Those Battling Same-Sex Attraction?

What can churches can do to help Christians with same-sex attraction (SSA)? Sam Allberry offers five practical next steps.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[St. SteVen]

Translation: I have only an opinion without results to verify it.

Do you have success statistics to support your method?

 

[Lambano]

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

I don't know if the poster intended this, but the highlighted term translated "without natural affection" does not refer to natural sexual desires. Rather, ἄστοργος (astorgos) means "without στοργή", where storge is one of the four types of love in Greek culture, the love of family and kin.

And considering the dysfunction on my wife's side of the family, the violence, the controlling behavior, the abandonment, the divorces (it happens a lot in military families), I can see astorgos happening in real time. And I still don't know if the rumor that my grandson is now my granddaughter is true, because he (she?) has dived down a hole and pulled the hole in after him (her?).

 

[shepherdsword]

Do you have success statistics to support your method?

I am eyewitness to such deliverance.

However Steve, I see where you are coming from. You want these people to be treated with dignity and compassion. In this I agree. In fact, I think we should deal with all temptation and sin in the same manner, not just SSA or gender confusion.

 

[shepherdsword]

I suppose you could ask this fellow? (he wrote a book too - over 100k sold)

How Can the Church Help Those Battling Same-Sex Attraction?

What can churches can do to help Christians with same-sex attraction (SSA)? Sam Allberry offers five practical next steps.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

View attachment 78967

Good for him. he has chosen celibacy. I have a friend who was totally delivered and has been happily married for over 20 years. He was also supernaturally healed of AIDS.

 

[Lambano]

Good for him. he has chosen celibacy. I have a friend who was totally delivered and has been happily married for over 20 years. He was also supernaturally healed of AIDS.

Well, praise God for miracles, but for every one who is supernaturally delivered and healed, how many does God say to, "No. My grace is sufficient for thee."?

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't know if the poster intended this, but the highlighted term translated "without natural affection" does not refer to natural sexual desires. Rather, ἄστοργος (astorgos) means "without στοργή", where storge is one of the four types of love in Greek culture, the love of family and kin.

And considering the dysfunction on my wife's side of the family, the violence, the controlling behavior, the abandonment, the divorces (it happens a lot in military families), I can see astorgos happening in real time. And I still don't know if the rumor that my grandson is now my granddaughter is true, because he (she?) has dived down a hole and pulled the hole in after him (her?).

Wow!
That's a great insight, thanks. (emphasis in your quote mine)

 

[St. SteVen]

I am eyewitness to such deliverance.

However Steve, I see where you are coming from. You want these people to be treated with dignity and compassion. In this I agree. In fact, I think we should deal with all temptation and sin in the same manner, not just SSA or gender confusion.

I was with you up to "gender confusion" being a sin. It's not.
Otherwise, a good post from you.

 

[St. SteVen]

Good for him. he has chosen celibacy. I have a friend who was totally delivered and has been happily married for over 20 years. He was also supernaturally healed of AIDS.

Did the SSE ever go away? Ask him.

 

[shepherdsword]

Did the SSE ever go away? Ask him.

I have...and it did.

 

[shepherdsword]

I was with you up to "gender confusion" being a sin. It's not.
Otherwise, a good post from you.

If by "gender confusion" you mean just a temptation then I agree, it is not a sin. However, if someone is openly transitioning from their assigned sex then I see that as sin.

 

[St. SteVen]

I have...and it did.

Good for him.
Some continue to struggle.

 

[St. SteVen]

If by "gender confusion" you mean just a temptation then I agree, it is not a sin. However, if someone is openly transitioning from their assigned sex then I see that as sin.

Gender dysphoria means that someone feels like they are in the wrong body for their gender.
How is that a temptation or sin?

 

[St. SteVen]

... if someone is openly transitioning from their assigned sex then I see that as sin.

Name the sin.

 

[shepherdsword]

Gender dysphoria means that someone feels like they are in the wrong body for their gender.
How is that a temptation or sin?

Did you miss my post? When they ACT on it. I would also add that this is more of a spiritual problem than a biological one. We have seen large ultra masculine alpha males transition into females. Nothing hormonal about that.