David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Paul wrote:
A.) there is only One Gospel = Romans 1:16
B.) there is only One Gospel = Galatians 1:6-9
C.) there is only One Body of Christ = Ephesians chapter 2 and 4:5
I SEE TWO CHURCHES IN ACTS 15
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A.) there is only One Gospel = Romans 1:16
B.) there is only One Gospel = Galatians 1:6-9
C.) there is only One Body of Christ = Ephesians chapter 2 and 4:5
As has been stated, that doesn’t matter.
Jhn 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Jhn 21:15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
Jhn 21:16 He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
Jhn 21:17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.
Who was Peter sent to in Acts 10? Where was Peter in Gal. 2:11-14? What does Peter say?
1Pe 2:25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
1Pe 5:2 shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly;
1Pe 5:3 not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.
What else does Jesus say?
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Who compromises the sheep? People from “all the nations” who are his followers. Who compromises the goats? People from “all the nations” who are not his followers.
So what does Paul say?
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
Eph 2:17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Eph 3:4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.
Eph 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Eph 3:7 Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God's grace, which was given me by the working of his power.
Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,
Eph 3:10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
What do shepherds do? What is the body of Christ then that is being built up by these shepherds?
There has always been one church, one body, one flock, one gospel.
There WERE two
Israel"s church diminshed along with the temporary fall of Israel
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
All who speak of "two churches' and "two gospels" is in rebellion against the Will and Word of GOD.
@GRACE ambassador = the LORD wants you to place your trust in HIM, for HIS WORD is TRUTH
SEE Here = Ephesians 2:13-22
Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,
so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
@LoveYeshua, i believe you will find this truth to be TRUTH
In Acts 10 Gentiles believed Peter's preaching and became part of the little flock believing remnant of Israel. They werent part of the body of Christ
This is talking about the believing Jews scattered among the nations.
Also Israel was split into two nations and Christ will make them one and be their Shepherd
The Gentile nations that enter the kingdom are those nations that blessed Israel
The verse says he separates them AS A SHEPHERD THAT SEPARATES THE SHEEP FROM THE GOATS he isnt calling them his sheep
The KJV doent translate that as shepherds but as pastors
In Acts 20:29 Paul does call the church a flock but thats the only reference and I would say just like Jesus and the sheep and goats, it's an illustration not a description Paul doesnt describe the church as being sheep
If there is one gospel and one church how do you recocile these verses
[Hebrews 3:16 KJV] "For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses."
[Hebrews 3:17 KJV] "But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?"..................This passage is about Israel in the wilderness.....................
[Hebrews 4:1 KJV] "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."
[Hebrews 4:2 KJV] "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].".....................a gospel was preached to Israel in the wilderness Which gospel?
[Acts 7:38 KJV] "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:".............there was a church in the wilderness Which church?
Oh Doug, Jesus came first to his people chosen by God, he said so, the other sheep are gentiles and the lost tribes, the Goal : one church, One gospel, one Covenant, one Kingdom of Heaven where God himself will be with HIS people, the ones Who love Him and do His will. You are still splitting hairs, trusting in dispensational teachings made by men, and they will not stand in the end that is coming soon. There is not much time left Doug, Only Christ holds the words for eternal life, do not let anything else distract you.
The verses you quote show that God always called a people to Himself, and that His gospel is one, even if it is received differently in different times.
Hebrews 3:16–17 talks about Israel in the wilderness. They heard God’s Word through Moses, but many disbelieved and died because they did not mix it with faith. The same warning is given to believers today: we can hear the Word but fail if we do not believe and obey (Hebrews 4:1–2).
The “rest” mentioned in Hebrews 4 is the promised salvation and peace with God. It is the same promise Jesus gives now, but it is received by faith (Hebrews 4:3). The gospel preached to Israel in the wilderness is God’s plan of salvation, pointing forward to Christ, even if they only saw it in shadow. Moses gave them the living oracles (Acts 7:38), which were God’s Word to guide them.
The “church in the wilderness” in Acts 7:38 refers to God’s people gathered by Him, the assembly of believers at that time. It is not a different gospel or different church; it is the same people of God, the same call to faith, just in an earlier stage before Christ came.
So the truth: one gospel, one church, one faith. Israel in the wilderness and the church today are part of the same plan of God. The difference is that we see the fulfillment in Christ, while they saw it in shadow and promise. Faith is what connects all generations to God’s one gospel.
Faith, not time or place, is what allows us to share in the same gospel and the same church.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Amen. And also this needs to be answered, which I "just read" today, after More Than 46 years of daily reading:
According to God's Prophetic Program and the gospel of the kingdom, for the nation of Israel, we see:
"But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. And the saying
pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost,
and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and
Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
And The Word Of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly;
and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith." (Acts 6:4-7 AV):
[ Earthly ] Prophecy and circumcision, Before Acts 9...Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
...Mystery and Uncircumcision After Acts 9:
In The [ Heavenly ] Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, Within The Gospel Of Grace,
Where Does Christ Reveal to Him Anything About:
sheep and [ circumcised? ] proselytes FOR "The Body Of Christ"?
can't find it...
---------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
[Romans 16:25 KJV] "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,"
[Ephesians 6:19 KJV] "And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,"
These verses say the gospel Paul preaches is a mystery which means the Jews in the wilderness could not have been given his gospel. It was a mystery hid and not revealed til Paul
Of course not. Neither were the Jews until they believed in Christ in the very same way the Gentiles did. Also, as I have pointed out previously, there were Jewish converts (Gentiles) among those in attendance at Pentecost.
"Other sheep" refers to those Gentiles who were to become believers. The Jews as a whole were one flock; Gentiles another.
Jhn 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
This is reading into the text something that isn't there. The passage is talking about the final judgement, where "the kingdom" is God's kingdom on earth, or heaven. That is made very clear in the passage (vv. 31-32, 46). It's where all believers in Christ and all unbelievers will be judged. Again, that is also what John is talking about here:
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Jesus does not distinguish, as you are doing, between Gentile nations and Israel, nor is he talking about blessing Israel. He clearly is talking about individual people from all nations and that they will be judged on how they treated him, not Israel, via how they treated his followers:
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
...
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
...
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
As Jesus had stated earlier:
Mat 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
What you don't seem to understand--because Matt. 25:31-46 is talking about the final judgement--is that your position essentially says that no Gentiles will be saved. It's that or Gentiles must work for their salvation. Good thing Jesus isn't saying either of those things.
The only possible reading is that sheep includes both Jews and Gentiles; it is the final judgement after all. You have basically two options: 1) do you want to make the argument that either Gentiles aren't going to be saved? or 2) do you want to make the argument that Gentiles are only saved by their works, nullifying the work of Christ and the grace of God?
Which is metaphorical, not literal. The Greek word used is poimēn, and it literally means "a herdsman, especially a shepherd."
It's used only 18 times in the NT and translated as "shepherd" 17 of those times in the KJV, including Matt. 25:32. Only in Eph. 4:11 does the KJV translate it as "pastors."
A flock of birds then? What about addressing the passages I did provide?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
what is the title of this thread .
The author of it wrote , I SEE TWO churches .
and now a word
DOUBLE MINDED . very unstable in all their ways . Some folks got double vision .
As for me , By grace i SEE only ONE CHURCH
that consists of TWO folds , both of the believing jew and b eleiving gentile .
ONE CHURCH , ONE BODY , ONE JERUSALEM of TRUE ISRAEL
which is HEAVENLY , wherein GOD and THE LAMB JESUS are THE VERY TEMPLE OF THE TRUE .
OF THE TRUE . OF THE TRUE . not the earthen one patterened after the true
BUT THE VERY TRUE AND HEAVENLY ITSELF
wherein JESUS ENTERED FIRST and by HIS OWN BLOOD were the far better sacrfices attained .
ONE ISRAEL
THE ONE OF GOD AND OF HIS CHRIST JESUS that be heavenly wherein JERUSALEM , mother to all the sheep IS
and where THE GOD AND KING SIT SUPREME .
In o ther words
NO JESUS , NO T RUE ISRAEL . No not even is a jew a true jew IF he bleieveth NOT on JESUS the CHRIST .
these words i just typed will surely be called hate
and even antisemtic by some . BUT No sir THEY BE THE WORDS of GOD himself .
And many might say BUT HEY dont you mean JESUS . to which is say , I MEANT EXACTLY what i said
OF GOD HIMSELF . cause IF JESUS said it , BET ON IT , G OD SAID IT .
Those Gentiles in Acts 10 could not be in the body of Christ for two reasons; the body wasnt formed until Paul; the gospel Paul preached was a mystery which means it was hid until revealed thru Paul
As far as Pentecost yes their were proselytes who became obedient to God's covenant for Israel that doesnt make them Gentiles in the body they were part if believing Israel
It says the Gentiles would enter the kingdom based on how they treated believing Israel
The Gentile goats who cursed Israel faced the white throne
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
verily v erily i do type unto thee .
have you ever noticed when TRUTH is said , THERE THE SHEEP DO GATHER in AGREEMENT .
but believe me when i say , few be the sheep of the TRUE KING OF ISRAEL . many have one foot in the world
and beleive the o ther foot in the heavens . But we simply cannot follow both the earthen and the heavenly .
SHEEP follow THE heavenly , THE SPIRITUAL
THE VERY GOD and HIS CHRIST unto WHOM his words ARE OUR MEAT .
FOR JUST AS HE IS TRUTH , OH SO TOO are HIS WORDS THE TRUTH . ONE GOD , ONE CHRIST
ONE ISRAEL OF GOD and of the LAMB . wherein any jew or gentile who BELIEVED ON CHRIST JESUS
is NOW ONE FOLD in HIM . oh yes the middle wall SURE was broken down
and the PROMISE of the SEED of Abraham , whom WOULD BLESS all nations HAS COME
and Has ascended b ack up to FROM WHENCE HE WAS and HAD BEEN LONG before even anything that was created
HAD been created and that by GOD through CHRIST were ALL things created .
There is big reason why the jews picked up stones
Notice what they asked him . They said you are not even yet fifty years old
and you have seen abraham . BEFORE abraham was , I AM . REMEMBER teh BURING BUSH .
THAT IS WHY they were so fast to pick up stones
FOR GOD had told moses something . WHEN moses asked them WHOM do i say has sent me unto you .
TELL THEM I AM has sent thee . Just a reminder for us all to bask in the beauty of THE T RUTH .
that INDEED the WORD was with GOD even in the beginning
and that the word was God and that by HIM , through HIM were all THINGS created that were and are created .
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