Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where can I find these terms "natural darkness" or "spiritual darkness" in the Bible?

Why are you demanding to see those specific terms? That's silly. The concepts of natural darkness and spiritual darkness are obviously found often in the Bible.

Here is one example of a reference to natural, physical darkness that caused people to not be able to see with their physical eyes.

Exodus 10:21 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, darkness which may even be felt.” 22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days. 23 They did not see one another; nor did anyone rise from his place for three days. But all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

This is the type of darkness that Genesis 1 is talking about. It's very obvious. It is contrasted with the light during the day time.

Here is an example of spiritual darkness that applies to unbelievers...

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.

The text simply tells us the darkness covered the face of the deep, before God said, "Let there be light". Before calling the darkness night and the light day. Also why does Isaiah tell us that God did create both darkness and evil? God forms, did create the light and darkness, peace and evil!

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The darkness is associated with the night and the light is associated with the day. A clear reference to literal, physical darkness that we know occurs at night and literal, physical light that we know occurs during the day. You are making something very simple into something convoluted for no reason.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I know this! This is how I know that he was NOT created an angel of God and became Satan, the personification of all evil!

All that God created was "very good" (Genesis 1:31), and you contradict that by saying that Satan was created evil. You are blatantly contradicting scripture with your beliefs and you can't even discern that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Perhaps it is because the king of Tyrus to fall under the power of Satan is the reason the lamentation is directed to him!

So, you're going to stick with the imaginary story that the human ruler of Tyre was an anointed cherub who protected the holy mountain of God and was created perfect in all his ways?

 

[rwb]

Tell me who the fallen cherub of Ezekiel 28 is, if not Satan then. Are you going to try to insist that cherubim are human beings and that this particular cherub was a human being created perfect in all his ways? You know that's not true.

Cherubim are imaginary figures symbolizing guardians for God's holiness, protection and presence in Scripture. They are neither spirit of God nor spirit of evil. They show God as guardian over the tree of life in the garden of Eden, they depict God's presence in the Tabernacle and Temple, in Ezekiel's vision (1:5-11) they show a connection to the glory of God and His divine presence, their symbolic presence in the Revelation show them as "living creatures" around God's throne continually praising God reinforcing God's holiness and majesty.

God bestowed these attributes upon king Tyrus when choosing him to be king. Through pride and arrogance of heart Tyrus turned all the good things from God into evil. This is why the lamentation is directed to king Tyrus. His heart was lifted up when he saw himself as being a god, perhaps the Creator Himself.

 

[rwb]

You are making it up as you go now to support your error. It is hard to take your posts serious.

Likewise WPM! You are so bent on trying to force Satan to be created and angel of God who became evil, that you refuse to acknowledge not only all biblical proof texts but also anyone who disagrees with what your doctrinal pov imagines.

 

[WPM]

Likewise WPM! You are so bent on trying to force Satan to be created and angel of God who became evil, that you refuse to acknowledge not only all biblical proof texts but also anyone who disagrees with what your doctrinal pov imagines.

LOL. Address the evidence above and stop avoiding. You have no biblical rebuttal so far, apart from what TS has taught you.

 

[WPM]

Cherubim are imaginary figures

OK. So angels and demons are now not real? LOL. This sums up your teaching here! It is fiction! This is delusional.

 

[WPM]

Cherubim are imaginary figures

What is next?" Is Jesus real? Is God real? Is the cross real? Is the resurrection real?

This is not a new battle. It is an ancient one:

Act 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

You are in horrible company. I trust God has mercy upon you both.

 

[WPM]

Cherubim are imaginary figures symbolizing guardians for God's holiness, protection and presence in Scripture. They are neither spirit of God nor spirit of evil. They show God as guardian over the tree of life in the garden of Eden, they depict God's presence in the Tabernacle and Temple, in Ezekiel's vision (1:5-11) they show a connection to the glory of God and His divine presence, their symbolic presence in the Revelation show them as "living creatures" around God's throne continually praising God reinforcing God's holiness and majesty.

God bestowed these attributes upon king Tyrus when choosing him to be king. Through pride and arrogance of heart Tyrus turned all the good things from God into evil. This is why the lamentation is directed to king Tyrus. His heart was lifted up when he saw himself as being a god, perhaps the Creator Himself.

1. Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
2. Was he in "Eden, the garden of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
3. Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
4. Was he created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?
5. Do you not believe in the total depravity of man any more?

 

[WPM]

Likewise WPM! You are so bent on trying to force Satan to be created and angel of God who became evil, that you refuse to acknowledge not only all biblical proof texts but also anyone who disagrees with what your doctrinal pov imagines.

Isaiah 14:3-11: “And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.”

Isaiah 14 12-17 continues, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (helel or shining one), son of the morning (dawn)! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?”

This is speaking about Satan.

• Lucifer lost his exalted place in heaven when he rebelled.
• This talks about a future day when we (the elect) will see the devil for who he really is. That is the day that we will know even as we are known. It is when we are perfected. Satan will be exposed for the fool he is.
• We also see here, Satan will not willingly let his followers go. He keeps them imprisoned.

 

[rwb]

LOL. Address the evidence above and stop avoiding. You have no biblical rebuttal so far, apart from what TS has taught you.

OK. So angels and demons are now not real? LOL. This sums up your teaching here! It is fiction! This is delusional.

What is next?" Is Jesus real? Is God real? Is the cross real? Is the resurrection real?

this is not a new battle. It is an ancient one:

Act 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

You are in horrible company. I trust God has mercy upon you both.

1. Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
2. Was he in "Eden, the garden of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
3. Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
4. Was he created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?
5. Do you not believe in the total depravity of man any more?

Once again I can see this discussion brings no glory to God!

 

[WPM]

Once again I can see this discussion brings no glory to God!

Every time we get to the core of the argument you and TS run. You have to!

 

[WPM]

Once again I can see this discussion brings no glory to God!

1. Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
2. Was he in "Eden, the garden of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
3. Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
4. Was he created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?
5. Do you not believe in the total depravity of man any more?

 

[WPM]

Once again I can see this discussion brings no glory to God!

What is next?" Is Jesus real? Is God real? Is the cross real? Is the resurrection real?

This is not a new battle. It is an ancient one:

Act 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

You are in horrible company. I trust God has mercy upon you both.

 

[rwb]

Every time we get to the core of the argument you and TS run. You have to!

You don't get to the core of discussions by showing yourself to be arrogant and rude (((LOL)))! My desire in these discussions is first and foremost to bring honor to God, not to be drawn into tit for tat.

Consider why God had this lamentation directed to the king of Tyrus who reigned over Tyre written down for us. These things are written that we might learn from what has been, that we don't fall into the same bad judgment through pride.

The city called Tyre was of old even before Tyrus became king a prominent faithful city, blessed by God. Renowned for its wealth, trade, craftsmanship, particularly in producing purple dye. The city had a crucial role in the commerce of the ancient world, the hub for trade and cultural exchange. But it was through this prosperity that king Tyrus led the city into idolatry and pride. That's why God sent prophets that they might remember the One true God, and if not the wrath of God would come against them.

Ezekiel condemns the city and king of Tyrus for its arrogance and predicts its destruction for having in pride turned away from God. The King of Tyre is said to have been in the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13). The actual reigning king of Tyre could not have been in the Garden of Eden. Yes, this section is poetic prose and not be confused with the physical Garden of Eden of A&E from the beginning. Rather, I believe this is a depiction of the garden that in the Revelation is called Paradise of God in heaven where the tree of life (Christ) is found.

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

At one time this arrogant, pride filled king had been called by God to reign over this great, and prosperous city because spiritually speaking the king's heart was one with God, spiritually being sustained by the tree of life. God blessed the king and the city as long as they were faithful unto God.

I could go on explaining, but you and SI have a habit of never addressing what is actually said. Therefore, once again, I feel it is in vain to I speak any more to you regarding this lamentation, or of angels and Satan, it's clear that it is cause for you to become provoked and hostile toward other Christians and I would rather not be a party to doing that.

 

[WPM]

You don't get to the core of discussions by showing yourself to be arrogant and rude (((LOL)))! My desire in these discussions is first and foremost to bring honor to God, not to be drawn into tit for tat.

Consider why God had this lamentation directed to the king of Tyrus who reigned over Tyre written down for us. These things are written that we might learn from what has been, that we don't fall into the same bad judgment through pride.

The city called Tyre was of old even before Tyrus became king a prominent faithful city, blessed by God. Renowned for its wealth, trade, craftsmanship, particularly in producing purple dye. The city had a crucial role in the commerce of the ancient world, the hub for trade and cultural exchange. But it was through this prosperity that king Tyrus led the city into idolatry and pride. That's why God sent prophets that they might remember the One true God, and if not the wrath of God would come against them.

Ezekiel condemns the city and king of Tyrus for its arrogance and predicts its destruction for having in pride turned away from God. The King of Tyre is said to have been in the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13). The actual reigning king of Tyre could not have been in the Garden of Eden. Yes, this section is poetic prose and not be confused with the physical Garden of Eden of A&E from the beginning. Rather, I believe this is a depiction of the garden that in the Revelation is called Paradise of God in heaven where the tree of life (Christ) is found.

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

At one time this arrogant, pride filled king had been called by God to reign over this great, and prosperous city because spiritually speaking the king's heart was one with God, spiritually being sustained by the tree of life. God blessed the king and the city as long as they were faithful unto God.

I could go on explaining, but you and SI have a habit of never addressing what is actually said. Therefore, once again, I feel it is in vain to I speak any more to you regarding this lamentation, or of angels and Satan, it's clear that it is cause for you to become provoked and hostile toward other Christians and I would rather not be a party to doing that.

LOL. Nothing is being avoided. You are describing yourself and TS. Nothing you say on this makes sense. Stop avoiding!!!

1. Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
2. Was he at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
3. Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
4. Was he created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?
5. Do you not believe in the total depravity of man any more?

 

[WPM]

The King of Tyre is said to have been in the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13). The actual reigning king of Tyre could not have been in the Garden of Eden. Yes, this section is poetic prose and not be confused with the physical Garden of Eden of A&E from the beginning. Rather, I believe this is a depiction of the garden that in the Revelation is called Paradise of God in heaven where the tree of life (Christ) is found.

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

At one time this arrogant, pride filled king had been called by God to reign over this great, and prosperous city because spiritually speaking the king's heart was one with God, spiritually being sustained by the tree of life. God blessed the king and the city as long as they were faithful unto God.

I could go on explaining, but you and SI have a habit of never addressing what is actually said. Therefore, once again, I feel it is in vain to I speak any more to you regarding this lamentation, or of angels and Satan, it's clear that it is cause for you to become provoked and hostile toward other Christians and I would rather not be a party to doing that.

Eden was never the heavenly paradise of God. This is taught nowhere. It was the earthly abode of Adam and Eve. You invent such malarkey to support your heretical teaching. You have zero proof.

 

[WPM]

The city called Tyre was of old even before Tyrus became king a prominent faithful city, blessed by God. Renowned for its wealth, trade, craftsmanship, particularly in producing purple dye. The city had a crucial role in the commerce of the ancient world, the hub for trade and cultural exchange. But it was through this prosperity that king Tyrus led the city into idolatry and pride. That's why God sent prophets that they might remember the One true God, and if not the wrath of God would come against them.

LOL. Where do you come up with this? Where is this in Scripture? Where is your evidence.

Tyre was a heathen city given over to idolatry. It was under the judgment of God. Where does it say that "the city called Tyre was of old even before Tyrus" a "faithful city, blessed by God"?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, that is what several of us took issue with in this thread. The belief that Satan is not a created being is one that TribulationSigns promotes every chance he gets. He claims that Satan refers to the spirit of man in general rather than to an actual evil spirit being.

True! Biblical Fact!

He has explicitly denied the existence of a spirit being named Satan.

You clearly did not read well what I said. I NEVER deny the existence of "a spirit named Satan." Satan "IS" a spirit. Get it? What you fail to understand or accept is that he "IS" a spirit of depraved man. As we ALL were before we were born again, Selah! He is NOT a "created being" in heaven as "angel" to begin with as I can tell that you has been brainwashed by Sunday School as I were!

and of spirit beings called angels and demons many times.

Do you realize that the word, "Demon" or "Demons" are not found in KJV Bible? Only the faulty new translations do that. God considered them as devil or devils - which refers to MEN with spirit of Disobedience. They are the devils!

...You really have to learn to be more calm and careful in your studies. Falling doesn't mean dropping out of the sky or from a literal place in heaven, the 7 Angels (Messengers) of the 7 churches aren't literal Angels, and God moving the candlestick (church) out of its place doesn't actually mean their church will be physically lifted up off its foundations and placed somewhere else. Some things are hard to be understood, especially when bogged down in church traditions...or Sunday schools. It's up to us to be as the more noble Bereans and carefully consider things "in the light" of the whole Bible. For example:

John 6:69-71
(69) And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
(70) Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
(71) He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

You side with your own thinking, not the Scriptures. It is the same way that the messenger of God's house Caiaphas was the Bona-fide High Priest of that House of God, and yet was a child of the devil none-the-less. Likewise the leaders of the Lord's house, their habitation, and their position as those appointed.

Matthew 23:1-3

• "Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
• Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
• All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

They ruled in God's covenanted house and had the authority over God's covenant congregation, BUT they were never actually saved! Same thing with the New Testament congregation when many false prophets and christs rule over her. Don't you understand the concept of external Covenanted people, the sons of God corporately, do you?! If you (and others) spent half as much time in consideration of scripture as you spend attempting to prove yourselves right, you might actually learn something!

How can you not know that? He often has pointed out that the Greek word means "messenger" and any reference to "angels" refer to human messengers.

Yes. True.

How about you ask him if he believes in the existence of an evil spirit being named Satan...

He does exist. Satan is an evil spirit of man. It is their spirit of disobedience. Not an independent entities.

And ask him if he believes in the existence of spirit beings called angels.

Where do you find that in Scripture? The spirit called angels.

@TribulationSigns can you please confirm to rwb that you do not believe in the existence of a non-human evil spirit being named Satan.

God NEVER created Satan (or Lucifer) as an independent entities in physical heaven. God did not create this spirit in man. It was man who created it by their own lust and rebellion. That is why the inquity was found in them! Not found in Satan in literal heaven before he won third of good angels cast down with him to Earth...literally. Wrong intepreations on many Scriptures.

and that you do not believe in the existence of evil spirit beings called demons or in spirit beings called angels at all?

Demons? Where do you find that in KJV bible? No it is the devils, the spirit of man. For example:

Rev 18:1-3
(1) And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
(2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
(3) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

You want facts? How about biblical facts? Revelation 18:2 declares that Babylon ‘BECAME the habitation of devils.’ That word ‘became’ is crucial—it shows she was once something different before her fall. She once represented God’s kingdom faithfully, but through apostasy, she turned into a dwelling place for unclean spirits. Who are they exactly? Aren't they the false prophets and christs and people they deceived with spirit of Satan, which are foul spirit and unclean and hateful bird?

He has explicitly denied the existence of an evil spirit being named Satan several times

Wrong, wrong, wrong for the several times. Satan "IS" an evil spirit...of MAN! Not a created evil spirit by God.

, as well as denying the existence of spirit beings called angels and demons.

Look... the angels are Messengers -- men with either the spirit of God or the Spirit of Satan. Consider wisely:
Rev 12:7
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

The question we must ask is: What war was it? What “heaven” is this?

Is this the literal dwelling place of God — the place of His throne?
Or is it the kingdom of heaven — the visible congregation of God’s people on earth?

Throughout Scripture, “heaven” is often used to describe the spiritual realm of authority and rule, not outer space. The kingdom of heaven is God’s covenant people — His congregation.

The word angel simply means messenger. In Scripture, men are repeatedly called messengers. John the Baptist was called a messenger, did you realize this? The messengers of the seven (complete) churches in Revelation are called “angels.”

So in Revelation 12, the war in heaven is not describing a mythical celestial battle in outer space. It is describing a spiritual conflict within the congregation, in this verse, the old testament congregation — between those led by the Spirit of God (Michael and his messengers) and those led by the spirit of Satan (the dragon and his messengers).

Men are either:

• Led by the Spirit of God
  or
• Led by the spirit of rebellion.

There are not two species of invisible winged (or bat winged) beings fighting in space. There is a spiritual battle within the realm of God’s kingdom — the Old Testament congregation transitioning into the New.

If someone insists this passage describes a literal civil war in outer space between supernatural creatures, they must explain why sin and rebellion could exist in the very dwelling place of a holy God. And how Satan, in your fatansy, believe he can came back to heaven to face God after being cast out? LOL!

Look, Revelation is symbolic, prophetic language. The war is spiritual. The war between Christ's Word and Satan's Word THROUGH MEN, depending on their SPIRIT, who are their messengers (angels). Men aligned either with truth or with deception. Selah!

Spiritual discerned. Nothing to do with your 70AD fantasy if you ever insert it in Revelation 12.

Are you claiming that cherubim are humans?

Read the article. If you receive the love the Truth.

What are Cherubim?

 

[rwb]

You clearly did not read well what I said. I NEVER deny the existence of "a spirit named Satan." Satan "IS" a spirit. Get it? What you fail to understand or accept is that he "IS" a spirit of depraved man. As we ALL were before we were born again, Selah! He is NOT a "created being" in heaven as "angel" to begin with as I can tell that you has been brainwashed by Sunday School as I were!

Both WPM and SI will never reply to what is actually said. Instead, they put their spin on replies they don't like, and twist what is said to make it appear you & I believe that Satan doesn't exist. They've both shown themselves unworthy of the truth.

True! Biblical Fact!



You clearly did not read well what I said. I NEVER deny the existence of "a spirit named Satan." Satan "IS" a spirit. Get it? What you fail to understand or accept is that he "IS" a spirit of depraved man. As we ALL were before we were born again, Selah! He is NOT a "created being" in heaven as "angel" to begin with as I can tell that you has been brainwashed by Sunday School as I were!


Do you realize that the word, "Demon" or "Demons" are not found in KJV Bible? Only the faulty new translations do that. God considered them as devil or devils - which refers to MEN with spirit of Disobedience. They are the devils!

...You really have to learn to be more calm and careful in your studies. Falling doesn't mean dropping out of the sky or from a literal place in heaven, the 7 Angels (Messengers) of the 7 churches aren't literal Angels, and God moving the candlestick (church) out of its place doesn't actually mean their church will be physically lifted up off its foundations and placed somewhere else. Some things are hard to be understood, especially when bogged down in church traditions...or Sunday schools. It's up to us to be as the more noble Bereans and carefully consider things "in the light" of the whole Bible. For example:

John 6:69-71
(69) And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
(70) Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
(71) He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

You side with your own thinking, not the Scriptures. It is the same way that the messenger of God's house Caiaphas was the Bona-fide High Priest of that House of God, and yet was a child of the devil none-the-less. Likewise the leaders of the Lord's house, their habitation, and their position as those appointed.

Matthew 23:1-3

• "Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
• Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
• All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

They ruled in God's covenanted house and had the authority over God's covenant congregation, BUT they were never actually saved! Same thing with the New Testament congregation when many false prophets and christs rule over her. Don't you understand the concept of external Covenanted people, the sons of God corporately, do you?! If you (and others) spent half as much time in consideration of scripture as you spend attempting to prove yourselves right, you might actually learn something!



Yes. True.



He does exist. Satan is an evil spirit of man. It is their spirit of disobedience. Not an independent entities.


Where do you find that in Scripture? The spirit called angels.


God NEVER created Satan (or Lucifer) as an independent entities in physical heaven. God did not create this spirit in man. It was man who created it by their own lust and rebellion. That is why the inquity was found in them! Not found in Satan in literal heaven before he won third of good angels cast down with him to Earth...literally. Wrong intepreations on many Scriptures.



Demons? Where do you find that in KJV bible? No it is the devils, the spirit of man. For example:

Rev 18:1-3
(1) And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
(2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
(3) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

You want facts? How about biblical facts? Revelation 18:2 declares that Babylon ‘BECAME the habitation of devils.’ That word ‘became’ is crucial—it shows she was once something different before her fall. She once represented God’s kingdom faithfully, but through apostasy, she turned into a dwelling place for unclean spirits. Who are they exactly? Aren't they the false prophets and christs and people they deceived with spirit of Satan, which are foul spirit and unclean and hateful bird?




Wrong, wrong, wrong for the several times. Satan "IS" an evil spirit...of MAN! Not a created evil spirit by God.


Look... the angels are Messengers -- men with either the spirit of God or the Spirit of Satan. Consider wisely:
Rev 12:7
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

The question we must ask is: What war was it? What “heaven” is this?

Is this the literal dwelling place of God — the place of His throne?
Or is it the kingdom of heaven — the visible congregation of God’s people on earth?

Throughout Scripture, “heaven” is often used to describe the spiritual realm of authority and rule, not outer space. The kingdom of heaven is God’s covenant people — His congregation.

The word angel simply means messenger. In Scripture, men are repeatedly called messengers. John the Baptist was called a messenger, did you realize this? The messengers of the seven (complete) churches in Revelation are called “angels.”

So in Revelation 12, the war in heaven is not describing a mythical celestial battle in outer space. It is describing a spiritual conflict within the congregation, in this verse, the old testament congregation — between those led by the Spirit of God (Michael and his messengers) and those led by the spirit of Satan (the dragon and his messengers).

Men are either:

• Led by the Spirit of God
  or
• Led by the spirit of rebellion.

There are not two species of invisible winged (or bat winged) beings fighting in space. There is a spiritual battle within the realm of God’s kingdom — the Old Testament congregation transitioning into the New.

If someone insists this passage describes a literal civil war in outer space between supernatural creatures, they must explain why sin and rebellion could exist in the very dwelling place of a holy God. And how Satan, in your fatansy, believe he can came back to heaven to face God after being cast out? LOL!

Look, Revelation is symbolic, prophetic language. The war is spiritual. The war between Christ's Word and Satan's Word THROUGH MEN, depending on their SPIRIT, who are their messengers (angels). Men aligned either with truth or with deception. Selah!

Spiritual discerned. Nothing to do with your 70AD fantasy if you ever insert it in Revelation 12.



Read the article. If you receive the love the Truth.

What are Cherubim?

This is very well thought out and reasoned TS! Though I fear it is falling on mostly death ears. For SI & WPM to admit the truth that Satan was never created an angel of God who became evil Satan, they would have to accept they have been deceived and are now clinging to and promoting deception. I pray you will remain strong in the faith and continue to share the spiritual understanding that God has gifted you with. Thank you - rwb