It is near

[Randy Kluth]

The Kingdom is near. The Bible speaks of the impact of God's heavenly Kingdom today, and even always. But it does not say that the eschatological Kingdom is already realized. By definition it comes in the Eschaton, and not before.

And so, the Kingdom is a process, the steps of which make an impact on our world today, even before it arrives in the eschatological sense.

What did Jesus mean when he said God's Kingdom was "near?" Albert Schweitzer thought Jesus was mistaken. Others have thought the same.

What Jesus actually meant is that he was the King of this coming Kingdom, and his presence was the initial step in preparing for the eschatological Kingdom to come.

If Jesus was near in proximity to his people, being present with them on earth, then in a sense the Kingdom itself, spiritually, was near them. And he made another "hour" click off the clock in preparation for his final Coming, since his earthly work prepared the way for it to come.

The Gospel is an advance warning, providing the warning of an almost imminent event. In fact, Christ's 1st Coming means that we already have a choice to make, once we've heard that message. It in that sense makes the coming of the Kingdom near to every one of us.

The main point here is that since Jesus brought the Kingdom "near" in his 1st Coming, his work of redemption has brought his Spirit near to all of us when the Gospel is preached to us as an advance warning. When he came he brought his Spirit with him. And when he left, he left his Spirit with the Church. Jesus in that sense remains "near" to us. And it renders his judgment "near" to all of us.

We are all "near" the judgment. We have an immediate need to respond to the message and to deliver the message. That's what we should be doing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Kingdom is near. The Bible speaks of the impact of God's heavenly Kingdom today, and even always. But it does not say that the eschatological Kingdom is already realized. By definition it comes in the Eschaton, and not before.

And so, the Kingdom is a process, the steps of which make an impact on our world today, even before it arrives in the eschatological sense.

What did Jesus mean when he said God's Kingdom was "near?" Albert Schweitzer thought Jesus was mistaken. Others have thought the same.

What Jesus actually meant is that he was the King of this coming Kingdom, and his presence was the initial step in preparing for the eschatological Kingdom to come.

If Jesus was near in proximity to his people, being present with them on earth, then in a sense the Kingdom itself, spiritually, was near them. And he made another "hour" click off the clock in preparation for his final Coming, since his earthly work prepared the way for it to come.

The Gospel is an advance warning, providing the warning of an almost imminent event. In fact, Christ's 1st Coming means that we already have a choice to make, once we've heard that message. It in that sense makes the coming of the Kingdom near to every one of us.

The main point here is that since Jesus brought the Kingdom "near" in his 1st Coming, his work of redemption has brought his Spirit near to all of us when the Gospel is preached to us as an advance warning. When he came he brought his Spirit with him. And when he left, he left his Spirit with the Church. Jesus in that sense remains "near" to us. And it renders his judgment "near" to all of us.

We are all "near" the judgment. We have an immediate need to respond to the message and to deliver the message. That's what we should be doing.

Why do you not differentiate between the spiritual kingdom that we are in now that did not come with observation (Luke 17:20), is not of this world (John 18:36) and that "is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17) with the fullness of the kingdom of God that we will inherit in the new heavens and new earth when Jesus returns?

Both John the Baptist and Jesus said that the kingdom was "at hand" already long ago (Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, etc.). That means it was present back then because Jesus is King and He was here on the earth. But, Jesus never said that the kingdom of God in its fullness that we will inherit in the future when Jesus returns (Matthew 25:34) which mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit (1 Corinthians 15:50) was at hand or near. He only said that about the spiritual kingdom that was already at hand when He was on the earth. The spiritual kingdom that all believers are in right now.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

 

[Randy Kluth]

Why do you not differentiate between the spiritual kingdom that we are in now that did not come with observation (Luke 17:20), is not of this world (John 18:36) and that "is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17) with the fullness of the kingdom of God that we will inherit in the new heavens and new earth when Jesus returns?

I do not recognize a spiritual Kingdom that we are now "in." That is a Realized Eschatology, which I do not see as biblical. The Kingdom to come is not yet here, is eschatological, and still "is coming."

The Kingdom that is now present is present with God, and not with us here on the earth. It may impact us in some way through the Spirit of Christ, but it certainly is not yet *here.* Just my opinion....

Both John the Baptist and Jesus said that the kingdom was "at hand" already long ago (Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, etc.). That means it was present back then because Jesus is King and He was here on the earth.

I can't accept this either. Saying the "Kingdom is at hand" is the same thing, as I discussed, that the "Kingdom is near." It is not yet here, but it is "near.." Being "at hand" it is not yet here--it is "near." It did not come to be, it was not "realized." It is something that made an initial impression, indicating that it had an immediate impact--one that the world has to pay heed to. But no, saying it is "at hand" does not mean that is is "here," in my opinion.

But, Jesus never said that the kingdom of God in its fullness that we will inherit in the future when Jesus returns (Matthew 25:34) which mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit (1 Corinthians 15:50) was at hand or near. He only said that about the spiritual kingdom that was already at hand when He was on the earth. The spiritual kingdom that all believers are in right now.

You are making distinctions that do not make any difference, from what I can see. You speak of the "Kingdom of God in the future" and about the "Spiritual Kingdom already at hand." They are in essence the same Kingdom, one having an immediate impact but not yet present and the other something to be realized in the future, in the Eschaton.

Not even mortal humanity, Christian or not, can "inherit the Kingdom" when it is realized in the Millennium. This eternal Kingdom is "inherited" only by those who are glorified via resurrection. Mortal humanity must await the end of the Kingdom Age to obtain their own resurrection and their own inheritance of this Kingdom.

What inheriting the Kingdom really means is that we have eternal possession of it. Mortal humanity will live in the Kingdom Age without yet having eternal possession of it. That only happens via resurrection and glorification, when we ourselves become immortal.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

We enter enrollment in the Kingdom, but do not yet possess the Kingdom. That remains for when we are made immortal.

 

[Gottservant]

In the sense that the "Kingdom of God is within you" the end is always near.

What we need to understand is that the end in Christ is always new.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I do not recognize a spiritual Kingdom that we are now "in."

Do you recognize a current spiritual kingdom at all?

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

You don't think this verse is speaking of a current reality?

That is a Realized Eschatology, which I do not see as biblical. The Kingdom to come is not yet here, is eschatological, and still "is coming."

So, is Jesus your King right now? Please answer the question.

The Kingdom that is now present is present with God, and not with us here on the earth.

So, you don't experience "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" in your life here on the earth?

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

It may impact us in some way through the Spirit of Christ, but it certainly is not yet *here.* Just my opinion....

It certainly is here if you experience "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" here on earth during the life you are living right now. I hope you don't tell me you are never experiencing any "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" in your life.

I can't accept this either. Saying the "Kingdom is at hand" is the same thing, as I discussed, that the "Kingdom is near."

The kingdom being at hand doesn't mean it's at least 2,000 years or so from coming! I can't take that seriously.

It is not yet here, but it is "near.." Being "at hand" it is not yet here--it is "near."

So, it's been at hand and near for almost 2,000 years now? Really? No. That's not what "at hand" and "near" means.

It did not come to be, it was not "realized." It is something that made an initial impression, indicating that it had an immediate impact--one that the world has to pay heed to. But no, saying it is "at hand" does not mean that is is "here," in my opinion.

It certainly doesn't mean that it's at least 2,000 years or so away.

You are making distinctions that do not make any difference, from what I can see. You speak of the "Kingdom of God in the future" and about the "Spiritual Kingdom already at hand." They are in essence the same Kingdom, one having an immediate impact but not yet present and the other something to be realized in the future, in the Eschaton.

Having an immediate impact but not yet present? Huh? I need to bite my tongue, so to speak here. I'll try to refrain from saying what is coming to my mind when reading a comment like that.

Not even mortal humanity, Christian or not, can "inherit the Kingdom" when it is realized in the Millennium. This eternal Kingdom is "inherited" only by those who are glorified via resurrection. Mortal humanity must await the end of the Kingdom Age to obtain their own resurrection and their own inheritance of this Kingdom.

What inheriting the Kingdom really means is that we have eternal possession of it. Mortal humanity will live in the Kingdom Age without yet having eternal possession of it. That only happens via resurrection and glorification, when we ourselves become immortal.

We enter enrollment in the Kingdom, but do not yet possess the Kingdom. That remains for when we are made immortal.

Why do you consider a "Kingdom age" that we inherit when we become immortal (bodily - 1 Cor 15:50-54) and inherit eternal life to have anything to do with the thousand years, when an immortal age is clearly a reference to an eternal age and not a temporary, thousand year age?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Do you recognize a current spiritual kingdom at all?

Yes, of course. The Lord's Kingdom is in heaven, and actually everywhere. It just has not yet been realized on earth or in our lives. We are already members of that Kingdom and show that we are members. But that is not the realized Kingdom on earth

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

You don't think this verse is speaking of a current reality?

Yes, we have righteousness. But this is not the realized Kingdom. This is one step towards the ultimate realization of the Kingdom, when we are resurrected and made immortal.

So, is Jesus your King right now? Please answer the question.

We don't have authority to demand things. We are in service to our King.

Tell me, do you obey Him? If so, then you must submit to the sufferings and miseries of this life.

Nevertheless, you can rejoice in your Salvation, and the Devil cannot take your inheritance from you. He can not touch you in regard to your Salvation. But like Job he can wreck havoc in some areas of your life.

So, you don't experience "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" in your life here on the earth?

You aren't experiencing "righteousness" if you refuse to submit to what God is requiring of you now. And that is laying down your life for his will, and submitting to His will.

You may get certain things and see God's blessings in your life. But you will not prevail in taking control, politically, over the kings and governors of this earth. It is not yet the Kingdom of God--not until your King says so.

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

It certainly is here if you experience "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" here on earth during the life you are living right now. I hope you don't tell me you are never experiencing any "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" in your life.

I experience the righteousness of Christ because I've submitted to him. You are obligated to do the same thing if you wish to enjoy his righteousness as well.

But pray as you might, this present world is being led by political rulers many of whom are ungodly and even antiChristian. That is not the Kingdom of God.

If the Spiritual Kingdom within us makes us reign, then these rulers would submit to you. But they don't because it is not yet God's will for that to happen.

So, it's been at hand and near for almost 2,000 years now? Really? No. That's not what "at hand" and "near" means.

The way I interpret "at hand" is "near."

It certainly doesn't mean that it's at least 2,000 years or so away.

Something 2000 years away can still be "near" if proximity involves something that is close by, or when the thing that triggers the event has already pulled the trigger.

Jesus drew close to the earth and to his people when he came the 1st time. His work on the cross triggered the stage in which we live in the eternal tension of judgment and in peril if we don't respond to his word of Salvation.

That renders the next event on the calendar close in our mortal lives and even close in history, relatively speaking. It is the next big event that all of history is aiming towards. All of history has been focused on preparation for the Kingdom of God, which is not yet here.

Having an immediate impact but not yet present? Huh? I need to bite my tongue, so to speak here. I'll try to refrain from saying what is coming to my mind when reading a comment like that.

You probably should refrain if what you wish to say is uncalled for, yes. We should never try to win arguments using unmentionable means.

Why do you consider a "Kingdom age" that we inherit when we become immortal (bodily - 1 Cor 15:50-54) and inherit eternal life to have anything to do with the thousand years, when an immortal age is clearly a reference to an eternal age and not a temporary, thousand year age?

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but let me guess. You don't realize that we Christians in the present age obtain immortality when Christ comes again?

This enables us to inherit the Kingdom that is coming to earth. The Mortal Population of earth enjoys Millennial peace in the Kingdom Age, but they do not inherit it themselves until they also become immortal as we've become.

This is this hard to understand. Mortals enter into the Kingdom Age but do not yet obtain it. Immortals enter into the Kingdom Age and do obtain it. Immortality is required to obtain the Eternal Kingdom of God.

We have the promise of immortality, but we are not immortal yet. We will get that in the Resurrection.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, of course. The Lord's Kingdom is in heaven, and actually everywhere. It just has not yet been realized on earth or in our lives.

It's "actually everywhere", but "not yet been realized on earth or in our lives"? Ugh. So, when you say it's actually "everywhere", you mean everywhere but earth?

We are already members of that Kingdom and show that we are members. But that is not the realized Kingdom on earth

Are we just members of some fake kingdom right now? What do you mean by "realized Kingdom"? If you mean the kingdom in its fullness in the new heavens and new earth, then I would agree, but you probably don't mean that.

Yes, we have righteousness. But this is not the realized Kingdom.

Apparently, the non-realized Kingdom means nothing to you, which is just sad.

 

[Randy Kluth]

It's "actually everywhere", but "not yet been realized on earth or in our lives"? Ugh. So, when you say it's actually "everywhere", you mean everywhere but earth?

No, I mean the Kingdom of God is a heavenly Kingdom and as such exists in some form everywhere. On earth the Kingdom exists in an unrealized form, meaning that we can safely say that the eschatological form of the Kingdom is not yet here.

Are we just members of some fake kingdom right now? What do you mean by "realized Kingdom"? If you mean the kingdom in its fullness in the new heavens and new earth, then I would agree, but you probably don't mean that.

"Realized Kingdom" is the term experts used when discussing the subject of whether the Kingdom is actually present on earth in some form or not. Some feel that the Kingdom is present in the authority given to the Church, and as such, is a Realized Kingdom. Others, like myself, would say that even though there is measured authority given to the Church, the fact the Church is still persecuted means that the promised eschatological Kingdom remains distant. It is an Unrealized Kingdom.

Apparently, the non-realized Kingdom means nothing to you, which is just sad.

Don't make this personal, or I'm done.