Is Revelation 20:1-6 really a recap?

[Davidpt]

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

Why is it that only those passages count but the following don't?

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


IOW, why can't these passages explain the first resurrection and the reigning with Christ a thousand years meant in Revelation 20? It's not like the passages you supplied are the only options.

 

[ScottA]

In time believers are raised up with Christ SPIRITUALLY because the Kingdom of God NOW is a spiritual and not a physical kingdom. But Christ will come again in the same manner He departed, clothed in human, though immortal, flesh. And we who are not spiritually with Him in the Kingdom of God in heaven, when He comes again we will be with Him resurrected from mortal body to immortal body. Why would that be if the new heaven and new earth will not be inhabited by humans with body + breath of life, to once again be complete human beings no longer under the bondage of physical death but as we were created in the beginning?

"We shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.." "God is spirit."

Until then--men of the flesh prefer to see Him as flesh, and to be forever flesh themselves. Flesh. Sadly--for, which is greater--actually, God who is spirit, or men of this world clothed with "coats of skins" only for a time, times, and half a time?

 

[ewq1938]

But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

He never one time said anything of the sort. Not once did he claim he was beheaded and resurrected. Not once does he claim to rule over the nations with a rod of iron. The Romans murdered Paul, and he has not been resurrected.

 

[ScottA]

A symbolic thing in the lives of 1st century Christians. Not the rod of iron rule over the nations promised to happen AFTER the events of Armageddon, in Rev 19.

A "rod of iron" is defined as the power and authority of God.

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth'" (Matthew 28:18). Past tense.

 

[Marty fox]

Why is it that only those passages count but the following don't?

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


IOW, why can't these passages explain the first resurrection and the reigning with Christ a thousand years meant in Revelation 20? It's not like the passages you supplied are the only options.

Those verses are all true I have no problem with them but they are not the first resurrection as Paul explains that the first resurrection is spiritual

John 11
17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about [a]two miles away. 19 And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Matthew 22
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[b]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

 

[Davidpt]

Matthew 22
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[b]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

What exactly are you hoping to prove with this passage? This is the context-- But about the resurrection of the dead. Thus explains why He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living, in regards to these 3 patriarchs mentioned. But that doesn't mean these are soul sleeping. A disembodied state has zero to do with this passage. And this passage doesn't even remotely prove that Amils are interpreting the first resurrection in Revelation 20 correctly. No way is anything in this passage involving a spiritual resurrection. But about the resurrection of the dead= bodily resurrection not spiritual resurrection involving a disembodied state. I'm not denying a disembodied state. I'm saying that that is not the context. Context determines how to understand something. Everyone should know that, thus agree.

 

[rwb]

"We shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.." "God is spirit."

Until then--men of the flesh prefer to see Him as flesh, and to be forever flesh themselves. Flesh. Sadly--for, which is greater--actually, God who is spirit, or men of this world clothed with "coats of skins" only for a time, times, and half a time?

Do you not believe that when we are born again having the Spirit of Christ within us, the spirit possesses eternal life because in spirit we are the likeness of Christ? Isn't that why Scripture tells us that when we walk/live by the Spirit we cannot sin?

1 John 3:9 (KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is why when the body of a man having the Holy Spirit within him dies, the spirit through Christ's Spirit in us continues to give life to the spirit, that the spirit that came from God returns to Him as spiritual body/living soul without human form, yet alive and with Christ in the heavenly domain. Because in spirit essence whosoever is born again is the likeness of God who is Spirit.

Christ will come again in human form as He was seen leaving this earth. And then we, who are born again of His Spirit, shall be like Him bodily being without sin and death because, like Him, we shall be immortal & incorruptible humans as we were at creation before sin and death through sin entered in.

 

[rwb]

Those verses are all true I have no problem with them but they are not the first resurrection as Paul explains that the first resurrection is spiritual

Marty explaining the first resurrection in this manner causes confusion. Because the first resurrection is the bodily resurrection of Christ that man must spiritually, (not physically) have part in through His Spirit in us, to overcome the second death. When we say man must be resurrected to be saved, we err. Because man is NOT resurrected for salvation, they are born again! That's why when Paul writes of man being dead in trespasses in sins, he's saying the spirit of man must be "made alive" because the man who is dead in trespasses and sins is not in need of a resurrection from death but is in need of another or new Spirit that makes the spirit in us alive again to God as man was in the beginning created to be.

Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Not physically dead, but spiritually before man is born again the spirit in him is dead unto God, and must be made alive (quickened) by the Spirit of Christ.

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

To be spiritually born again the natural spirit of man must be made alive together with Christ, who is Spirit. This does not happen by being resurrected, which speaks of bodily death, it happens when our natural spirit is supernaturally changed from being dead to God through sins, to be made alive again to God that we can know Him as He knows us.

When we explain the first resurrection in this way, we aren't telling people that mankind must experience a resurrected body to live and reign with Christ. Rather we are saying for man to live and reign with Christ they must be born again, and this new birth comes to man who has partaken of the resurrected immortal life of Christ before we physically die. Because Christ is the one and only "first resurrection."

 

[rwb]

What exactly are you hoping to prove with this passage? This is the context-- But about the resurrection of the dead. Thus explains why He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living, in regards to these 3 patriarchs mentioned. But that doesn't mean these are soul sleeping. A disembodied state has zero to do with this passage. And this passage doesn't even remotely prove that Amils are interpreting the first resurrection in Revelation 20 correctly. No way is anything in this passage involving a spiritual resurrection. But about the resurrection of the dead= bodily resurrection not spiritual resurrection involving a disembodied state. I'm not denying a disembodied state. I'm saying that that is not the context. Context determines how to understand something. Everyone should know that, thus agree.

Resurrection is not of the spirit of man; it is of the body of man. The only way for man to be made spiritual alive is not through resurrection, but they must be born again!

Matthew 22:30-32 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Christ is not speaking of man's bodily resurrection here. If He were He would not say in the resurrection man shall be as the angels of God in heaven. Because angels do not have a body, being spirits. Man will not be resurrected bodily from the graves until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds at the end of this age.

What resurrection does Christ refer to where there will be no marriages, and man are as the angels of God in heaven? Since He cannot be speaking of physical resurrection, where in the flesh man is given in marriage, and clothed with body of flesh and not as unseen spirits/angels, Christ then is speaking of His own bodily resurrection.

When man has part in the resurrected life of Christ by being born again of His Spirit, we are not given in marriage because we are spiritually speaking already the bride of Christ. And when we have part in the resurrected life of Christ, when we physically die we as spiritual body, living souls return to God in heaven as are the angels of God, spirit not flesh & blood that cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. This is why Christ tells us that God is not God of the dead, but of the living, because all who live by faith in Christ have eternal life that physical death has no power over.

All who have been born again, have partaken of the resurrected life of Christ have this hope, that when Christ returns again our physical body shall be immortal & incorruptible reunited with eternal spirit alive in heaven in both life and death forever.

 

[Davidpt]

Resurrection is not of the spirit of man; it is of the body of man. The only way for man to be made spiritual alive is not through resurrection, but they must be born again!

Matthew 22:30-32 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Christ is not speaking of man's bodily resurrection here. If He were He would not say in the resurrection man shall be as the angels of God in heaven. Because angels do not have a body, being spirits. Man will not be resurrected bodily from the graves until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds at the end of this age.

What resurrection does Christ refer to where there will be no marriages, and man are as the angels of God in heaven? Since He cannot be speaking of physical resurrection, where in the flesh man is given in marriage, and clothed with body of flesh and not as unseen spirits/angels, Christ then is speaking of His own bodily resurrection.

When man has part in the resurrected life of Christ by being born again of His Spirit, we are not given in marriage because we are spiritually speaking already the bride of Christ. And when we have part in the resurrected life of Christ, when we physically die we as spiritual body, living souls return to God in heaven as are the angels of God, spirit not flesh & blood that cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. This is why Christ tells us that God is not God of the dead, but of the living, because all who live by faith in Christ have eternal life that physical death has no power over.

All who have been born again, have partaken of the resurrected life of Christ have this hope, that when Christ returns again our physical body shall be immortal & incorruptible reunited with eternal spirit alive in heaven in both life and death forever.

First of all you don't know whether angels have bodies or not since they exist in an unseen realm. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I'm not arguing they do, nor am I arguing they don't. I simply don't know. But that is not the point in regard to being compared to angels. The comparison is this---angels are obviously immortal and so will man be immortal like them. Before the bodily resurrection? Of course not. It's clearly meaning after the bodily resurrection. If you perhaps think angels aren't immortal, then provide an example from the Bible where a literal angel has ever died. Only man has the ability to die, angels certainly don't. Thus why Revelation 20:10 says satan shall be tormented forever and ever, since it is impossible for him to die.



BTW, just so there is no confusion here. When I say angels are immortal, I'm not saying they don't have a beginning nor were not created. I'm saying they were obviously created to live forever without end.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

First Jesus said this---Neither can they die any more. Then right after that He said this---for they are equal unto the angels. In what way? Can angels die? Of course not. If the saved can't die any more, if that does not equal live forever, thus equal to angels, then I give up. When Jesus says neither can they die any more, He is applying that universally to all the saved after a bodily resurrection of all the saved. Obviously, when a saved person dies, they can never die anymore, yet the saved that are still alive on earth can still die, though. Therefore, when every saved person can die no more, is not meaning before the bodily resurrection, it is meaning after.

I'm not denying one has to be born again first. That's a given. But that is not the context of the passage in Luke 20:36, the bodily resurrection is. Except you are trying to conflate things here like you typically do a lot of the time. IOW, you are disregarding context. Not that I agree with Amil, but why can't it still work without passages like this being in regard to a spiritual resurrection rather than a bodily one? Do people in this age still marry? Of course they do. Yet the text says those that obtain that world and the resurrection from the dead, there are no more marriages. Therefore, the world meant hasn't arrived yet.

 

[ScottA]

Do you not believe that when we are born again having the Spirit of Christ within us, the spirit possesses eternal life because in spirit we are the likeness of Christ? Isn't that why Scripture tells us that when we walk/live by the Spirit we cannot sin?

1 John 3:9 (KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is why when the body of a man having the Holy Spirit within him dies, the spirit through Christ's Spirit in us continues to give life to the spirit, that the spirit that came from God returns to Him as spiritual body/living soul without human form, yet alive and with Christ in the heavenly domain. Because in spirit essence whosoever is born again is the likeness of God who is Spirit.

Christ will come again in human form as He was seen leaving this earth. And then we, who are born again of His Spirit, shall be like Him bodily being without sin and death because, like Him, we shall be immortal & incorruptible humans as we were at creation before sin and death through sin entered in.

You are adding "human form" to what is written.

I could also ask you--and perhaps it would be better if you answered first before you continue down that fleshly path--

Do you not believe that we also in Christ will be One with the Father, as Christ is One again having left His own flesh to the church to carry during their/our own time of bearing our sin--all One and spirit?​

What is missing in the mind of those who add "human form" to their idea of what shall be, is a complete understanding of just what this world and this body of flesh is. It is not destine to be "glorified flesh", but dissolved with the elements of this world because it is all the manifestation and revealing--bringing to light every evil--by that "form" you speak of. It is by that form that the "shadow of turning" reveals the evil thereof. But in heaven, in the presence of God, in God, and God in us--"there is no variation or shadow of turning" (James 1:17).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The spiritual--"the glory of the Father" is "foolishness" says you

That's not what I said. Lying about what I said doesn't help your case at all. What I called foolishness was you denying the bodily future coming of Christ.

--now fully revealed There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So be it.

What did you mean by this?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

First of all you don't know whether angels have bodies or not since they exist in an unseen realm. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I'm not arguing they do, nor am I arguing they don't. I simply don't know. But that is not the point in regard to being compared to angels. The comparison is this---angels are obviously immortal and so will man be immortal like them. Before the bodily resurrection? Of course not. It's clearly meaning after the bodily resurrection. If you perhaps think angels aren't immortal, then provide an example from the Bible where a literal angel has ever died. Only man has the ability to die, angels certainly don't. Thus why Revelation 20:10 says satan shall be tormented forever and ever, since it is impossible for him to die.



BTW, just so there is no confusion here. When I say angels are immortal, I'm not saying they don't have a beginning nor were not created. I'm saying they were obviously created to live forever without end.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

First Jesus said this---Neither can they die any more. Then right after that He said this---for they are equal unto the angels. In what way? Can angels die? Of course not. If the saved can't die any more, if that does not equal live forever, thus equal to angels, then I give up. When Jesus says neither can they die any more, He is applying that universally to all the saved after a bodily resurrection of all the saved. Obviously, when a saved person dies, they can never die anymore, yet the saved that are still alive on earth can still die, though. Therefore, when every saved person can die no more, is not meaning before the bodily resurrection, it is meaning after.

I'm not denying one has to be born again first. That's a given. But that is not the context of the passage in Luke 20:36, the bodily resurrection is. Except you are trying to conflate things here like you typically do a lot of the time. IOW, you are disregarding context. Not that I agree with Amil, but why can't it still work without passages like this being in regard to a spiritual resurrection rather than a bodily one?

It can and it does. What Jesus taught in Luke 20:34-36 indicates that in the age to come no one will die anymore and no one will get married anymore. That makes the age to come eternal rather than being a thousand year age, as Premils believe. I agree with you that Luke 20:36 is referring to the bodily resurrection of the dead and there's no need to see it as a spiritual resurrection in order for that passage to support Amil.

Do people in this age still marry? Of course they do. Yet the text says those that obtain that world and the resurrection from the dead, there are no more marriages. Therefore, the world meant hasn't arrived yet.

Right.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why is it that only those passages count but the following don't?

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


IOW, why can't these passages explain the first resurrection and the reigning with Christ a thousand years meant in Revelation 20? It's not like the passages you supplied are the only options.

In terms of bodily resurrections, the passage that gives the order of bodily resurrections unto bodily immortality is 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and that says that Christ's resurrection itself was the first resurrection in order. That lines up with Acts 26:23 saying that Christ was the first to rise from the dead. But, Premils like you ignore this. Using scripture to interpret scripture, the reference to having part in the first resurrection in Revelation 20:6 refers to having part in Christ's resurrection, which is the first resurrection.

 

[rwb]

First of all you don't know whether angels have bodies or not since they exist in an unseen realm.

The Bible often translate spirit as 'ghost'. And Christ tells His disciples who thought He had been resurrected a spirit/ghost, that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. And when Christ died on the cross after commending His spirit into the Fathers hands, we read "He gave up the ghost." A spirit doesn't have physical form but are unseen ministering spirits of God sent to minister to heirs of salvation, or they are unseen spirits warring against the spirits of God.

Luke 24:39 (KJV) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

When Jesus says neither can they die any more, He is applying that universally to all the saved after a bodily resurrection of all the saved.

In the resurrection Christ is speaking of, believers that are spirits returned to God after physical death are not immortal, they are eternal. Immortality is of the flesh, not the spirit. They shall not be immortal & incorruptible body of flesh until the end of this age when the last trumpet sounds. The spirit that returns to God is alive through the Spirit of Christ within us, assuring the spiritual body of Christ has eternal life, just as Christ promised for all who have been born again. Through His cross Christ purchased the whole man, not only the spirit of man that possesses eternal life, but also the physical our outward body of man that shall be resurrected immortal when the last trumpet sounds, made alive through the spirit of man that shall return with Christ when the last trumpet sounds.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

It's only the spirit of man that shall never die any more. Because the spirit in man possesses eternal life and has no fear of the second death.

Therefore, when every saved person can die no more, is not meaning before the bodily resurrection, it is meaning after.

The Scripture assures us that when we have been born again, made spiritually alive through Christ, even though our body is destined to die, physical death is not the end for our eternal spirit that ascends to heaven the spiritual body of Christ, living souls, that are as the angels of God in heaven who are spirit without physical form.

Yet the text says those that obtain that world and the resurrection from the dead, there are no more marriages.

As I've already said, the spiritual body of Christ is not while in heaven given in marriage being the bride of Christ there.

Revelation 21:2 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 22:17 (KJV) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Therefore, the world meant hasn't arrived yet

The Kingdom of God came to earth with Christ when He came to earth a man. The Kingdom of God now, in this world cannot be seen because it is a spiritual Kingdom within you. It will not be a physical Kingdom upon the NEW earth until this first heaven and earth passes away.

 

[rwb]

You are adding "human form" to what is written.

Of course because that is what Scripture tells us we shall physically see when Christ comes again. It will be as it was when He departed from this world and the disciples saw Him ascending up into heaven until the clouds obscured their vision. If Christ does not return in bodily form as He said how will every eye see His appearing? Seeing in the following verse speaks of physical sight.

Revelation 1:7 (KJVSL) Behold ἰδού, he cometh ἔρχομαι with μετά clouds νεφέλη; and καί every πᾶς eye ὀφθαλμός shall see ὀπτάνομαι him αὐτός, and καί they also which ὅστις pierced ἐκκεντέω him αὐτός: and καί all πᾶς kindreds φυλή of the earth γῆ shall wail κόπτω because ἐπί of him αὐτός. Even so ναί, Amen ἀμήν.

 

[rwb]

I agree with you that Luke 20:36 is referring to the bodily resurrection of the dead and there's no need to see it as a spiritual resurrection in order for that passage to support Amil.

The resurrection Christ is referring to is His bodily resurrection, because He is the first resurrection from the dead never to die again.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The resurrection Christ is referring to is His bodily resurrection, because He is the first resurrection from the dead never to die again.

Let's look at the scripture in question to see if that's the case.

Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

So, the topic here is related to "this age" and "the age to come". Jesus related "the resurrection from the dead" that He was talking about there to the age to come when people will no longer get married and no longer die. So, Jesus could not have been talking about His own bodily resurrection there since that occurred during "this age" during which people get married and they die. The resurrection that will occur at the time when the age to come is ushered in is referring to the time when the dead in Christ are bodily resurrected when He returns. So, that is the resurrection that Jesus is referring to in that passage. When that bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs, no one will get married or die again because that is when eternity (the eternal age to come) will be ushered in.

 

[rwb]

Let's look at the scripture in question to see if that's the case.

Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

So, the topic here is related to "this age" and "the age to come". Jesus related "the resurrection from the dead" that He was talking about there to the age to come when people will no longer get married and no longer die. So, Jesus could not have been talking about His own bodily resurrection there since that occurred during "this age" during which people get married and they die. The resurrection that will occur at the time when the age to come is ushered in is referring to the time when the dead in Christ are bodily resurrected when He returns. So, that is the resurrection that Jesus is referring to in that passage. When that bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs, no one will get married or die again because that is when eternity (the eternal age to come) will be ushered in.

The age to come came when Christ came in the Kingdom of God ushering in the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God. We have entered the Kingdom of God that now is spiritual when we are born again. That means we have spiritually, not physically entered the age that according to Christ was to come through His resurrection. The age to come that we spiritually enter when we are born again, shall be the immortal physical Kingdom on the New Earth when the seventh trumpet sounds. But until that day, we count ourselves as spirits of just men made perfectly the spiritual body spiritually dwelling living souls with Christ in the heavenly ream through the Spirit of Christ in us.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are counted among the living even though they are physically dead, because God is not God of the dead, but of the living. They are among the living after physical death because before they died, they were of the resurrection of Christ through promise according to faith. They have already obtained the eternal age Christ ushered in when He came in the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 22:29-32 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

As spiritually the body of Christ, living souls are as angels of God spiritually in heaven, where there is no marriage. This age is physical of flesh & blood, but the age we enter when we are born again is not of flesh & blood but the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:47-50 (KJV) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:19-20 (KJV) For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

This is why we don't worship God through our physical mortal body, rather we worship Him in SPIRIT and in truth. Having eternal spiritual life through Christ, we have His promise that though our body shall die must be resurrected again, our living eternal spirit shall never die because the life we receive when we are born again is eternal, and shall be immortal and incorruptible when the last trumpet sounds.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The age to come came when Christ came in the Kingdom of God ushering in the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God. We have entered the Kingdom of God that now is spiritual when we are born again. That means we have spiritually, not physically entered the age that according to Christ was to come through His resurrection. The age to come that we spiritually enter when we are born again, shall be the immortal physical Kingdom on the New Earth when the seventh trumpet sounds. But until that day, we count ourselves as spirits of just men made perfectly the spiritual body spiritually dwelling living souls with Christ in the heavenly ream through the Spirit of Christ in us.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are counted among the living even though they are physically dead, because God is not God of the dead, but of the living. They are among the living after physical death because before they died, they were of the resurrection of Christ through promise according to faith. They have already obtained the eternal age Christ ushered in when He came in the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 22:29-32 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

As spiritually the body of Christ, living souls are as angels of God spiritually in heaven, where there is no marriage. This age is physical of flesh & blood, but the age we enter when we are born again is not of flesh & blood but the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:47-50 (KJV) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:19-20 (KJV) For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

This is why we don't worship God through our physical mortal body, rather we worship Him in SPIRIT and in truth. Having eternal spiritual life through Christ, we have His promise that though our body shall die must be resurrected again, our living eternal spirit shall never die because the life we receive when we are born again is eternal, and shall be immortal and incorruptible when the last trumpet sounds.

I, of course, don't deny that we are spiritually in the kingdom of God now and that we worship God now in spirit and in truth and so on, but that isn't what Jesus was talking about in Luke 20:34-36. Jesus talked about being worthy to attain the age to come and the resurrection of the dead. He wasn't talking about Himself there. He was talking about His followers being worthy to attain the age to come and the resurrection of the dead. Who of His followers has already attained to the resurrection of the dead? No one. Only Jesus has been resurrected unto bodily immortality so far. The dead in Christ who belong to Him will be bodily resurrected at His second coming (1 Cor 15:22-23, 1 Thess 4:14-17). They will be the ones Jesus talked about as being worthy to attain the resurrection of the dead and those who are alive when He returns will also attain the eternal age to come when they inherit eternal life in the eternal new heavens and new earth with them when Jesus returns.