Saved, what is it & why the confusion as to how ?

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rvmb

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1. Saved = enter eternal life.
2. By belief/faith/trust in ONLY the death/burial/resurrection of Christ 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
3. As taught by Christ through His Acts 9:15, Acts 13:2 ONLY appointed Apostle Rom 11:13 & Minister Rom 15:16 to believers Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15 today.
4. The other Apostles confirmed it Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9.
ALL confusion & doubts stops once you accept what Christ taught that applies to believers 'TODAY' :)
 
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GodsGrace

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Some prefer to read their PREFERED BIBLE, how about you reading yours ??
That's doing your work for you.
Unless I'm mistaken, we don't have all different bibles but only one.
Whatever version it is.
Mentioning a verse is not posting it.

It's your thread.
Do what you think best.

Also this is soteriology.
It should be under Theology.
 

rvmb

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That's doing your work for you.
Unless I'm mistaken, we don't have all different bibles but only one.
Whatever version it is.
Mentioning a verse is not posting it.

It's your thread.
Do what you think best.

Also this is soteriology.
It should be under Theology.
The verses are listed, it's your choice whether to read them in your preferred Bible or not.
 

rvmb

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Acts 9:15 .. for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Acts 13:2 .. Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Gal 2:7 ...... the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
**
So far so good, Paul's role is to teach to a different audience than Peter.
 

GodsGrace

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Acts 9:15 .. for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Acts 13:2 .. Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Gal 2:7 ...... the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
**
So far so good, Paul's role is to teach to a different audience than Peter.
Hi rvmb
Thanks for clarifying.
It seemed, from the title, that this was going to be about soteriology, which is an important topic for me.

Instead, I think what you're saying is that there are two different gospels.

I do believe that Paul was sent to the Jews and Peter to the Gentiles,,,
but I do not believe there are two different gospels.

Not sure this is what you're stating.
 

Brakelite

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“22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. ”
Matthew 7:22-23 KJV

Do you not think those described above believed in the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ?

What caused them to be lost, even though they believed and acted, even ministered, on that belief?
 

rvmb

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Hi rvmb
Thanks for clarifying.
It seemed, from the title, that this was going to be about soteriology, which is an important topic for me.

Instead, I think what you're saying is that there are two different gospels.

I do believe that Paul was sent to the Jews and Peter to the Gentiles,,,
but I do not believe there are two different gospels.

Not sure this is what you're stating.
""but I do not believe there are two different gospels.""
What verses do you believe teach/state the saving Gospel that applies to believers today ?
 

GodsGrace

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""but I do not believe there are two different gospels.""
What verses do you believe teach/state the saving Gospel that applies to believers today ?
Whatever they are rvmb....
they refer to the same gospel.

The church has been divided enough.

I will not participate in this silly argument....

Jesus said we are to remain UNITED.
Paul agreed.
As did ALL the Apostles and those of the early church that WENT TO THEIR DEATH
for their faith....

and kept the faith united.

No discussisng two different gospels with me..
sorry.
 

rvmb

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Whatever they are rvmb....
they refer to the same gospel.

The church has been divided enough.

I will not participate in this silly argument....

Jesus said we are to remain UNITED.
Paul agreed.
As did ALL the Apostles and those of the early church that WENT TO THEIR DEATH
for their faith....

and kept the faith united.

No discussisng two different gospels with me..
sorry.
""Whatever they are rvmb....
they refer to the same gospel.""
Really ?
Let's try one difference at a time :)
****
Eph 1:13 Paul teaches sealed with the HS when believe the Gospel - NO LAY OF HANDS.
Yet BEFORE Paul (Romans to Philemon)
Acts 8:13-19 Laying of hands to receive HS

1770931712172.png
 
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GodsGrace

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""Whatever they are rvmb....
they refer to the same gospel.""
Really ?
Let's try one difference at a time :)
****
Eph 1:13 Paul teaches sealed with the HS when believe the Gospel - NO LAY OF HANDS.
Yet BEFORE Paul (Romans to Philemon)
Acts 8:13-19 Laying of hands to receive HS

View attachment 79722
The sealing of the Holy Spirit happens at baptism.
The early church taught that the Holy Spirit descends and indwells the person at baptism.

The laying on of hands was to transfer power...which is certainly received by the Holy Spirit for a specific purpose.

For instance, in Acts 2 it was for the receiving of tongues so that the Apostles could preach to others that did not undersand.

And
I don't see any problem since all of the gospel/teachings are not spoken of every single time.

IOW,,, the NT teaches that baptism forgives sins.
Do you believe this?


Acts 2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22:16

16And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’



Acts 2:38 speaks of both the forgiveness and the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 22:16 speaks only of the forgiveness of sins...does this preclude that the Holy Spirit be received?
 

rvmb

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The sealing of the Holy Spirit happens at baptism.
The early church taught that the Holy Spirit descends and indwells the person at baptism.

The laying on of hands was to transfer power...which is certainly received by the Holy Spirit for a specific purpose.

For instance, in Acts 2 it was for the receiving of tongues so that the Apostles could preach to others that did not undersand.

And
I don't see any problem since all of the gospel/teachings are not spoken of every single time.

IOW,,, the NT teaches that baptism forgives sins.
Do you believe this?


Acts 2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22:16

16And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’



Acts 2:38 speaks of both the forgiveness and the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 22:16 speaks only of the forgiveness of sins...does this preclude that the Holy Spirit be received?
""The sealing of the Holy Spirit happens at baptism.""
Really ?
Explain why the difference between Acts 2:38 & Acts 8:13-17
Simon was ALREADY baptized but did not receive the HS UNTIL praying & laying of hands.
13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost
 

GodsGrace

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Yes sir.
You have perfectly shown why SOLA SCRIPTURA is NOT sufficient.

You have exposed a conflict in the bible.
HOW to reconcile it?

The sealing refers to baptism.
I do believe I misspoke slightly by saying that the sealing happens at baptism...
both are true actually..slight nuance there, but it's of no matter.

This can be learned by reading the writings of those that performed baptism while the Apostles were still alive and those tha came immediately after.


And I'm Protestant BTW.
Even Protestants know church history...
if they want to.

I am sorry, but I will not be having this conversation.
 

rvmb

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Yes sir.
You have perfectly shown why SOLA SCRIPTURA is NOT sufficient.

You have exposed a conflict in the bible.
HOW to reconcile it?

The sealing refers to baptism.
I do believe I misspoke slightly by saying that the sealing happens at baptism...
both are true actually..slight nuance there, but it's of no matter.

This can be learned by reading the writings of those that performed baptism while the Apostles were still alive and those tha came immediately after.


And I'm Protestant BTW.
Even Protestants know church history...
if they want to.

I am sorry, but I will not be having this conversation.
""I am sorry, but I will not be having this conversation.""
""SOLA SCRIPTURA is NOT sufficient.""

Another false teacher destroyed by the writings of the Bible.
Bye bye :)
 

GodsGrace

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""I am sorry, but I will not be having this conversation.""
""SOLA SCRIPTURA is NOT sufficient.""

Another false teacher destroyed by the writings of the Bible.
Bye bye :)
Why don't your reconcile the conflict instead of making silly comments??
 

GodsGrace

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""I am sorry, but I will not be having this conversation.""
""SOLA SCRIPTURA is NOT sufficient.""

Another false teacher destroyed by the writings of the Bible.
Bye bye :)
And I'm not here to teach you anything rvmb.
But I will NOT discuss weird ideas with other "Christians".
 

rvmb

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And I'm not here to teach you anything rvmb.
But I will NOT discuss weird ideas with other "Christians".
Paul >> Eph 1:13 sealed with HS only by believing the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 Gospel - No lay hands, no pray.
Peter > Acts 8:13-17 receive HS required baptize & Apostles to lay hands & pray.
Bible ALONE, explain why Paul's method is different to Peters :)
 

Soyeong

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1. Saved = enter eternal life.
2. By belief/faith/trust in ONLY the death/burial/resurrection of Christ 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
3. As taught by Christ through His Acts 9:15, Acts 13:2 ONLY appointed Apostle Rom 11:13 & Minister Rom 15:16 to believers Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15 today.
4. The other Apostles confirmed it Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9.
ALL confusion & doubts stops once you accept what Christ taught that applies to believers 'TODAY' :)
The Hebrew word "yada" refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God's way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by experiencing embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to have an intimate relationship with God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life/salvation.

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21), sin is what is contrary to God's character traits and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4) because it was given in order to teach us how to embody His character traits, so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience embody God's character traits in obedience to the Law of God is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not experiencing them.

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while our lives continued to be directed at being doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and redirecting our lives towards being a doer of the Law of God. A gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing to detract from the fact that the opportunity to experience driving it was completely given as a gift.

In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was seeking about what is intrinsically required in order to experience the gift of eternal life, not about the way to be good enough to extrinsically earn it as the result.

In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not extrinsically required to have first done those works in obedience to the Law of God in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not extrinsically required to do those works as as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works is intrinsically part of His gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith alone.

We embody what we believe to be true about God through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith by his works. In other words, the way to believe in God is by walking in His way. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to the Law of God we are embodying His goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by embodying God's goodness we are also embodying the belief that God is good. Likewise, the way to believe that God is compassionate is by being compassionate (Luke 6:36), the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16) and so forth.

This is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in God's way in obedience to the Law of God, so he is the way, the truth, and the way to know the Father (John 14:6-11). This is also the way Bible repeatedly connects our faith in God with our obedience to Him, such as with Revelation 14:12 where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. This is also why there are many verses that say that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the Law of God and many verses that say that the way to have eternal life is by believing in the Son. Moreover, it is by this faith alone that we attain righteousness and the other character traits of God along with salvation.
 
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rvmb

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The Hebrew word "yada" refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God's way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by experiencing embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to have an intimate relationship with God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life/salvation.

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21), sin is what is contrary to God's character traits and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4) because it was given in order to teach us how to embody His character traits, so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience embody God's character traits in obedience to the Law of God is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not experiencing them.

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while our lives continued to be directed at being doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and redirecting our lives towards being a doer of the Law of God. A gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing to detract from the fact that the opportunity to experience driving it was completely given as a gift.

In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was seeking about what is intrinsically required in order to experience the gift of eternal life, not about the way to be good enough to extrinsically earn it as the result.

In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not extrinsically required to have first done those works in obedience to the Law of God in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not extrinsically required to do those works as as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works is intrinsically part of His gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith alone.

We embody what we believe to be true about God through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith by his works. In other words, the way to believe in God is by walking in His way. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to the Law of God we are embodying His goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by embodying God's goodness we are also embodying the belief that God is good. Likewise, the way to believe that God is compassionate is by being compassionate (Luke 6:36), the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16) and so forth.

This is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in God's way in obedience to the Law of God, so he is the way, the truth, and the way to know the Father (John 14:6-11). This is also the way Bible repeatedly connects our faith in God with our obedience to Him, such as with Revelation 14:12 where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. This is also why there are many verses that say that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the Law of God and many verses that say that the way to have eternal life is by believing in the Son. Moreover, it is by this faith alone that we attain righteousness and the other character traits of God along with salvation.
What do you believe are the NT verses that teach how a believer today is saved ?
Just the verses please, let them do the talking for you :)