Man's Preterism, An Abomination

[Davy]

Firstly, what is the doctrine of Preterism?

Here is a definition of Preterism from gotquestions.org... at What is the preterist view of the end times? | GotQuestions.org

"According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment.​

​

Preterism denies the future prophetic quality of the book of Revelation. The preterist movement essentially teaches that all the end-times prophecies of the New Testament were fulfilled in AD 70 when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem."​

What you actually have there brethren in Christ, with that doctrine of men called Preterism, is DENIAL of Lord Jesus' COMMANDMENT to WATCH the SIGNS of the END He gave His Church leading up to His future return.

And likewise that applies to His Apostle's WARNINGS about DECEPTION for the END of this world also; Apostle Paul having given many such warnings.

Another thing those on man's FALSE THEORY OF PRETERISM like to do, is that if you don't agree those Bible prophecies are all past history, then it means you are a Futurist. That term Futurist is just another seminary tether label they come up with, in particular to point to those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory. So it's obvious Preterism intend to trap any way they can one into their false paradigm, or they CLAIM... you are not following The Bible. The reality is that they... are the ones NOT following what is written in The Bible.

I myself was raised in a mainstream Christian Church based on men's false theory of Preterism (Partial Preterism, which still believes in Christ's 2nd coming). They never... taught Bible prophecy. They are not allowed... to! It defeats their doctrines of Preterism. So just how SICK is that?

Of course as a child, I didn't know what all this was about. But when I was given The Holy Spirit urge to discipline myself in God's Word for myself, that is when I learned about these little 'tether' doctrines by men that come out of seminaries, not all of them of course, but enough of them that will deceive the believer away from what God's Word actually teaches. Christ's enemies have had over 2,000 years to create these 'tether' doctrines by creeping into Christian schools that train pastors. To not be aware of their existence and creeping in is like having one's head buried in the sand.

"Oh Davy, you must be a Futurist then, if you don't believe all prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D.", the Preterist might say.

NO! I am NOT a Futurist either. I believe God's Word as written about the time of Lord Jesus' 2nd coming, and Jesus revealed His 2nd coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation (Matt.24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27). Once again, that Futurist seminary label was created mainly for those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory, not only for those who disagree with Preterism.

Are you confused about their little 'tether' terms yet, which are designed to keep you in a theological box they can control? If Partial Preterism agrees at least with the fact that Jesus' 2nd coming is still FUTURE, how can they try to use terms like Futurism against others? It's STUPID. And that is how you will always... catch the false workers against Christ that creep in. Their doctrines always... wind up in STUPID IDEAS, and not just blatantly against what the written Bible Scripture teaches. Why is that you think? It is because of their FALSE AGENDA, which does not care about GOD's TRUTH in His Word, but only cares about DECEIVING YOU TO CIRCUMNAVIGATE AROUND GOD'S TRUTH IN HIS WORD.

 

[HealthyShape]

Why don´t you use normal font size?

The New Testament expected the end to come soon, in their lifetime. We can either accept that they were right (and to be preterists), but their language must be seen as hyperbole in some cases (heavens did not literally dissolve in fire, for example).

Or, we can say they were wrong (not inspired) in their timing of the events and to be futurists.

Partial preterism is something in the middle and it divides some New Testament texts into two epochs separated by millennia. This is obviously not a natural reading of those texts, so this is also problematic.

In summary, all eschatological views have their problems. No need to use loaded language (DECEPTION, DENIAL), all these views have sincere proponents who just try to understand the text.

 

[Davy]

BIBLE PROPHECY FOR THE END OF THIS WORLD:

1. Many Bible prophecies given in Christ's Book of Revelation are still yet to come to pass. The Bible student can easily... know this for a fact by thorough Bible study of The Old Testament prophets, the words of Lord Jesus Himself, and the words of His Apostles. Christ's Apostle John was simply the Apostle Lord Jesus chose to give His Revelation about the END through. Christ's Revelation given through John did not change what was previously written in God's Word, but only further defined... many of those previously written Bible PROPHECIES while giving some new prophecies not known of before.

2. Lord Jesus Christ's 2nd coming DID NOT HAPPEN IN 70 A.D. Nor has it happened yet to this day. That means it is still a 'future' Bible prophecy!

3. The Bible teaches ONLY 2 comings of our Lord Jesus Christ (Zechariah 9:9-10). His 1st coming was meek as a Lamb to die on the cross. His 2nd coming, which is still expecting today, is when He will come to TAKE REIGN OVER ALL NATIONS UPON THIS EARTH, and rule over them IN PERSON HERE, ON EARTH, using the "rod of iron" God promised Him per Psalms 2. And hey, that also is BIBLE PROPHECY YET UNFULFILLED TODAY!

4. The 7 main SIGNS Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 about the END are the SAME Signs given in the SEALS of Revelation 6 for His Church.

5. In Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus was specific with His command for His servants to be WATCHING those Signs He gave leading up to His future return. He emphasized that watching emphatically, so we would not be deceived by any man. And He gave events within that which are SPECIFIC only about His future, literal, physical return at His 2nd coming. And that destroys men's false theories of Preterism that tries to claim those events are NOT about the END of this world leading up to Jesus's return.

6. Per Acts 1, and Zechariah 14, Lord Jesus' feet are to touch down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, ON EARTH, where He ascended to Heaven from. It is written that He will bring His saints there with Him when He comes on that "day of the Lord", which is still Bible prophecy FOR SOMETIME IN OUR NEAR FUTURE!


Those above Biblical FACTS of still unfulfilled Bible prophecy for the END of this world are just a few examples. How do those still unfulfilled Bible prophecies make the Preterist look when they try to claim all those prophecies were fulfilled in 70 A.D., and the early Church agreed with them? It makes them appear truly STUPID. And again like I said, when that happens, you know... you have run upon a false crept in unaware that is working a false agenda against The LORD GOD and His Son Jesus Christ. And sadly, that includes anyone who is deceived by the creators of Preterism doctrine, and unknowingly push their theories against what is written in God's Word. Soon enough, those too will find this out.

 

[rwb]

Why do we doubt the words of Christ? Neither 70 AD nor two thousand plus years adequately explain Christ saying He was coming soon, and that He would be both near, here and even within you to whosoever believes Him. Isn't the reason we doubt because we cannot believe in what we cannot physically see?

 

[rwb]

Why do we limit the coming of Christ to man to only His two comings physically? Is it because we cannot physically see the coming of Christ to us through His Spirit in us?

 

[SavedInHim]

I find it very hard to believe there are people who actually believe this nonsense. I know they do; still, hard to fathom.

 

[Davidpt]

Why do we doubt the words of Christ? Neither 70 AD nor two thousand plus years adequately explain Christ saying He was coming soon, and that He would be both near, here and even within you to whosoever believes Him. Isn't the reason we doubt because we cannot believe in what we cannot physically see?

Where are you meaning where Christ said He was coming soon but would not be meaning His 2nd coming?

 

[rwb]

Where are you meaning where Christ said He was coming soon but would not be meaning His 2nd coming?

Christ has come and is coming to every believer through His Spirit within us. It seems many shall only believe when they can physically see Him returning when the last trumpet sounds. That makes no sense and doubts Christ when He says He is coming soon, is near, at hand and within whosoever is born again.

John 14:16-20 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Matthew 18:20 (KJV) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matthew 28:20 (KJV) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Just as Christ and the Father are one, and the Father is in Christ, and Christ is in the Father, so too, through His Spirit in us we are one with Christ, we in Him and He in us. When the Spirit of God dwells in you, it is the same as having Christ dwelling in you. Just as the works of Christ were of the Father in Him, so too, the works we do as believers are the works of Christ, through His Spirit in us.

John 14:10 (KJV) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Romans 8:9-10 (KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Davy]

Why do we doubt the words of Christ? Neither 70 AD nor two thousand plus years adequately explain Christ saying He was coming soon, and that He would be both near, here and even within you to whosoever believes Him. Isn't the reason we doubt because we cannot believe in what we cannot physically see?

Those statements certainly reveals an almost total lack of Bible study. Someone that Biblically illiterate doesn't have the right to comment on The Bible.

 

[Davy]

I find it very hard to believe there are people who actually believe this nonsense. I know they do; still, hard to fathom.

What nonsense, the nonsense of man's FALSE PRETERISM doctrines? It is A NONSENSE DOCTRINE OF MEN.

But it is a BIG... tradition of men, and many Christian Churches have unwittedly succumbed to it, just as many Churches also have succumbed to man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory that began in 1830's Britain. The majority of believers don't study all their Bible. They rely more on the preachers to tell them what it says.

 

[Davy]

Christ has come and is coming to every believer through His Spirit within us. It seems many shall only believe when they can physically see Him returning when the last trumpet sounds. That makes no sense and doubts Christ when He says He is coming soon, is near, at hand and within whosoever is born again.

John 14:16-20 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Matthew 18:20 (KJV) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matthew 28:20 (KJV) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Just as Christ and the Father are one, and the Father is in Christ, and Christ is in the Father, so too, through His Spirit in us we are one with Christ, we in Him and He in us. When the Spirit of God dwells in you, it is the same as having Christ dwelling in you. Just as the works of Christ were of the Father in Him, so too, the works we do as believers are the works of Christ, through His Spirit in us.

John 14:10 (KJV) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Romans 8:9-10 (KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

That kind of usage of Bible Scripture is not what Christianity is about. That kind of application of Bible Scripture is treating most events written in The Bible as 'allegory' and not as literal facts.

When God's written Word says Jesus will come a second time, a second coming, it means exactly that, literally. It is not a spiritual metaphor.

When Jesus said He would send His disciples The Comforter (Holy Spirit), that was meant literally, not metaphorically. Just because you don't properly understand the word 'spirit' doesn't mean it is about something that only exists in one's imagination.

 

[SavedInHim]

What nonsense, the nonsense of man's FALSE PRETERISM doctrines? It is A NONSENSE DOCTRINE OF MEN.

But it is a BIG... tradition of men, and many Christian Churches have unwittedly succumbed to it, just as many Churches also have succumbed to man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory that began in 1830's Britain. The majority of believers don't study all their Bible. They rely more on the preachers to tell them what it says.

My advice to you is don't comment on a post if you don't understand what was said.

 

[Davy]

HERE THEY COME BRETHREN IN CHRIST...

Here they come, the little PRETERISM bugs crawling out of the woodwork, coming out of hiding! They know who they are, and so does my Lord Jesus Christ.

Man's false doctrine of PRETERISM has a huge... following in many of today's Churches. Yet still, it is not Biblical. What is popular does not necessarily mean it is correct, or that it is written in The Bible.

What Preterism proposes goes directly against many Bible Scriptures. Those who try and claim... it doesn't only say that in hopes that the deceived won't bother to go check their false Preterism theories out for themsevles in Bible study.

Per Luke 4:10-11 (KJV), the devil ADDED the idea, "at any time", to Bible Scripture when he quoted from Psalms 91:11-12 to Lord Jesus. It changed how that Psalms 91 passage was meant. That also is the method that men's doctrines use when twisting the real meaning of Bible Scripture; they add or take away from the written Scripture. That is why Jesus gave a major warning in Revelation 22 against doing that.

 

[JLB]

Firstly, what is the doctrine of Preterism?

Here is a definition of Preterism from gotquestions.org... at What is the preterist view of the end times? | GotQuestions.org

"According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment.​

​

Preterism denies the future prophetic quality of the book of Revelation. The preterist movement essentially teaches that all the end-times prophecies of the New Testament were fulfilled in AD 70 when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem."​

What you actually have there brethren in Christ, with that doctrine of men called Preterism, is DENIAL of Lord Jesus' COMMANDMENT to WATCH the SIGNS of the END He gave His Church leading up to His future return.

And likewise that applies to His Apostle's WARNINGS about DECEPTION for the END of this world also; Apostle Paul having given many such warnings.

Another thing those on man's FALSE THEORY OF PRETERISM like to do, is that if you don't agree those Bible prophecies are all past history, then it means you are a Futurist. That term Futurist is just another seminary tether label they come up with, in particular to point to those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory. So it's obvious Preterism intend to trap any way they can one into their false paradigm, or they CLAIM... you are not following The Bible. The reality is that they... are the ones NOT following what is written in The Bible.

I myself was raised in a mainstream Christian Church based on men's false theory of Preterism (Partial Preterism, which still believes in Christ's 2nd coming). They never... taught Bible prophecy. They are not allowed... to! It defeats their doctrines of Preterism. So just how SICK is that?

Of course as a child, I didn't know what all this was about. But when I was given The Holy Spirit urge to discipline myself in God's Word for myself, that is when I learned about these little 'tether' doctrines by men that come out of seminaries, not all of them of course, but enough of them that will deceive the believer away from what God's Word actually teaches. Christ's enemies have had over 2,000 years to create these 'tether' doctrines by creeping into Christian schools that train pastors. To not be aware of their existence and creeping in is like having one's head buried in the sand.

"Oh Davy, you must be a Futurist then, if you don't believe all prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D.", the Preterist might say.

NO! I am NOT a Futurist either. I believe God's Word as written about the time of Lord Jesus' 2nd coming, and Jesus revealed His 2nd coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation (Matt.24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27). Once again, that Futurist seminary label was created mainly for those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory, not only for those who disagree with Preterism.

Are you confused about their little 'tether' terms yet, which are designed to keep you in a theological box they can control? If Partial Preterism agrees at least with the fact that Jesus' 2nd coming is still FUTURE, how can they try to use terms like Futurism against others? It's STUPID. And that is how you will always... catch the false workers against Christ that creep in. Their doctrines always... wind up in STUPID IDEAS, and not just blatantly against what the written Bible Scripture teaches. Why is that you think? It is because of their FALSE AGENDA, which does not care about GOD's TRUTH in His Word, but only cares about DECEIVING YOU TO CIRCUMNAVIGATE AROUND GOD'S TRUTH IN HIS WORD.

Preterism erroneously teaches that the resurrection is past.

Paul in the scriptures likens this doctrine to a “cancer” that spreads through the body.



But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
2 Timothy 2:16-17

 

[JLB]

Christ has come and is coming to every believer through His Spirit within us. It seems many shall only believe when they can physically see Him returning when the last trumpet sounds. That makes no sense and doubts Christ when He says He is coming soon, is near, at hand and within whosoever is born again.

John 14:16-20 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Matthew 18:20 (KJV) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matthew 28:20 (KJV) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Just as Christ and the Father are one, and the Father is in Christ, and Christ is in the Father, so too, through His Spirit in us we are one with Christ, we in Him and He in us. When the Spirit of God dwells in you, it is the same as having Christ dwelling in you. Just as the works of Christ were of the Father in Him, so too, the works we do as believers are the works of Christ, through His Spirit in us.

John 14:10 (KJV) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Romans 8:9-10 (KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7


When the day of the Lord occurs at His coming, all the tribes of the earth shall see Him and mourn.


That means all religions of the world whereby others gods are worshiped, will cease on that day, because EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM.

 

[grafted branch]

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7


When the day of the Lord occurs at His coming, all the tribes of the earth shall see Him and mourn.


That means all religions of the world whereby others gods are worshiped, will cease on that day, because EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM.

If the rest of the dead don’t live again till after the millennium and those that pierced Him are now dead, then when the Lord appears it has to happen after the millennium, right?

 

[rwb]

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7


When the day of the Lord occurs at His coming, all the tribes of the earth shall see Him and mourn.


That means all religions of the world whereby others gods are worshiped, will cease on that day, because EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM.

I agree! Christ is coming again in the same manner in which He was seen departing this earth! That does not mean that Christ through His Spirit has NOT come unto all who believe, all who have been born again of Christ's Spirit! We look with great anticipation for Christ to return again, then we shall be immortal as He is, but if Christ has not come to be within man through His Spirit in us before He comes again, His coming again will not be for immortal life, because only those who have been born again before Christ returns shall have immortal life when Christ returns again! It is in this life that man might possess eternal spiritual life through the Spirit of Christ in them. Then when this age comes to an end when the last trumpet sounds whosoever in this life possesses eternal spiritual life shall be raised to physical life possessing immorality!

To limit the comings of Christ in physical body, forgets the eternal life we possess the moment we believe and are born again of His Spirit, is Christ coming to believers SPIRITUALLY, not physically. It is when we have spiritual life through Christ, the life we possess is ETERNAL! Our bodies will die, but when the Spirit of Christ dwells in us, the spiritual life we have through Him shall never die. This is why we read that when Christ returns, He will bring with Him all who have died in Him. Even though we shall physically die, the eternal/never ending/forever life we have through the Spirit of Christ in us returns to God alive. Which is also why we read that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, though long dead, are not dead unto God, for He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. It is the spiritual body of Christ that shall return with Jesus to give immortal life to our resurrected flesh.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree! Christ is coming again in the same manner in which He was seen departing this earth! That does not mean that Christ through His Spirit has NOT come unto all who believe, all who have been born again of Christ's Spirit!

Is anyone here denying that Christ comes to us spiritually by way of His Spirit? Not that I've seen. This thread is about refuting preterism. No one is denying that Christ comes to dwell in us when we are born again.

To limit the comings of Christ in physical body,

Is anyone here doing that? It seems like you're making a strawman argument here.

 

[Davy]

If the rest of the dead don’t live again till after the millennium and those that pierced Him are now dead, then when the Lord appears it has to happen after the millennium, right?

Read and heed what Jesus said in John 5:28-29.

 

[Davy]

I agree! Christ is coming again in the same manner in which He was seen departing this earth! That does not mean that Christ through His Spirit has NOT come unto all who believe, all who have been born again of Christ's Spirit!

Still cannot use that 'coming' wording for believers on Christ receiving The Holy Spirit. The Greek word used for "coming" in The New Testament manuscripts is parousia. It is specific to Christ's literal, physical, bodily coming.