Saved, what is it & why the confusion as to how ?

[rvmb]

Gal 2:7-9
Paul ------ Apostle/Minister/teaches Gospel to the Gentiles/heathen/UNcircumcison
Peter/12 - Teaches Gospel to the circumcision.
What is the Gospel Paul teaches ? >> Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
What Gospel did Peter/12 teach ? >> Acts 2:38-45, Acts 8:14-17
The Gospels they taught are SIMILAR but NOT the same
eg Receive/sealed with HS
Paul Eph 1:13 faith/trust/belief in the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel
Peter - repent, believe, baptize, pray & lay hands - Acts 2:38, Acts 8:14-17
Another difference
Peters Gospel was PROPHETIC - Acts 2:16-17
Pauls was MYSTERY unknown to any man - Rom 16:25, Eph 3:3, Eph 3:9, Eph 6:19, Gal 1:11-12
Peter SELL EVERYTHING, all things in common etc Acts 2:44-45
Where does Paul teach that ? NOWHERE.
Objection, that doesn't apply today ?
Really, so you only like the parts that suit you (Acts 2:38) but not 44.45, how convenient.

 

[Ezra]

You are sealed with the HS the moment you believe the Gospel :)

absolutely

 

[rvmb]

absolutely

Yes, that's exactly what I understand >> Eph 1:13.
My only question is, can a believer become UNsealed if they no longer believe ?
As yet, I have found nothing from Paul that teaches they can.

 

[Ezra]

My only question is, can a believer become UNsealed if they no longer believe ?
As yet, I have found nothing from Paul that teaches they can.

this is age hold question.. the answer is depends on who you ask. all i can say if a christian fails its not th end there is room still at the cross . we do have a advocate. imo it would be hard i would think you would have to literally denounce Christ.. the Bible does say his mercy endure forever Psalm 136 a gospel artist by the name of ray boltzs (spelling ) many years ago announced he was gay? he wrote some very anointed songs ..before the announcement, my ? was he truly saved ? i would hope if i fell back into my old ways ..i would be like the prodigal son come to my senses and get out of the pig pen

 

[Taken]

Clarifying :-
me - You are sealed with the HS the moment you believe the Gospel >> Eph 1:13

you - Disagree. Many believe… and can STOP believing. (Because they are NOT “confessed”Believers)…

Yes, sounds logical since believing is required to be saved/sealed then no longer believing = LOGICALLY no longer sealed

LOGICAL -is how the MIND Thinks /Believes
SPIRITUAL-is how the Heart Thinks /Believes

God is invisible.

It is not mindfully Logical for manKind to Believe in what he can NOT, see, hear, taste, smell, feel the touch.

And WHY mindful Logical belief… is irrelevant.

Rom 8:
[7] Because [B.]the carnal mind is enmity against God: [/B] for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Thus Communication you want God to Hear …must be Spiritual…
A mans “natural” spirit (Aka) is his Absolute Truth in his heart.

Salvation…
The Lord requires a Heartful Believers “Confession” of Belief, Before His Gift of Salvation is Given…a Living (accounted crucified with Jesus) man.

Salvation…
God requires a Heartful Believers “Belief” at the moment of “his Physical Death.”

Difference…
Saved By Christ Jesus, occurs by Confession To the Lord (prayer, to His name) before physical Death. “crucified with Jesus”.
The body “accounted” dead.

BUT, I am unable to see where Paul teaches that to be so
Eph 1:13 ..after that ye believed, ye were sealed -- were = done , ARE sealed.

I will quote For you…
Eph 1:
[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed [/B] with that holy Spirit of promise,

Paul is speaking TO a group of people In Ephesus … they all called Ephesians …
He is Speak to the Whole Group of whoever is listening.
* Some listening May NOT Believe.
* Some listening May ALREADY Be Saved /Sealed.
* Some listening May be BELIEVING, but NOT Committed / Sure of their Belief…

It is Not any Different than a Modern Preacher, Preaching to One Group, who are at different points of Belief.

The individuals Know their own point of Belief, following, learning, not committed, committed, curious, hearing for the first time.

See…Eph 1: who Paul is speaking to:

[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Who are the “saints”?
The already SAVED, QUICKENED, SEALED.

Who are the “faithful in Jesus Christ”?
The Followers and Hearing Jesus’ Gospel…and Believing But …Not, Committed, Saved, Quickened, nor Sealed

Eph 1:13 is to the ones who ARE sealed…The Saints…which identifies They are the Sealed, They not only Believers, Followers, BUT HAVE Heartfully Committed their Belief TO the Lord.

Were YOU sealed the first time you learned About God? Likely not.

Were YOU sealed when you learned a few things about Jesus Christ? likely not.

Scripture teaches to spend time Learning… which IS following, believing, wondering, not committed, Not saved, Not Quickened, Not a saint, Not Sealed…
Spend time learning…TO be Very sure, Before you commit..Because a False Commitment IS lying To the Lord…

It is the listeners who KNOW their own Standing…their own belief, IF they are not yet sure, want to learn more, or deny, reject, or ready to commit.
The committed are the Sav-ED…Seal-ED…
And the Sav-ED, the Seal-ED, Never become…
Unsaved, unsealed.

2 Tim 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

We, is man
he , is the Lord
he. Is the Lord

IOW…. If a man does not believe…the Lord Does, and Always Will. He will Never reject Himself.

Are you aware of verses FROM Paul that teach once a believer is saved/sealed/justified by the Gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 that the SEALED believer can later become UNsaved if they stop believing ?

Again, as I have Said…

The Sav-ED ARE the “committed” and can NOT Stop believing.
The UN-Saved (uncommitted) Believer Can Stop Believing.

The WHY….
The salvation & Quickening IS GIVEN AFTER the body is Accounted DEAD..

Do DEAD men known Anything…?…Like to decide they “Want” to be saved or No longer want to be saved?

Uh, no.

Ecc 9:
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Yes, that's exactly what I understand >> Eph 1:13.
My only question is, can a believer become UNsealed if they no longer believe ?
As yet, I have found nothing from Paul that teaches they can.

Living men are NOT sealed Because they Believe.

Living men ARE sealed because they HEARTFULLY Believe, and CONFESSED their HEARTFUL BELIEF TO the Lord Jesus.

No Sealed man becomes unsealed.

No Sealed man CAN stop believing.

 

[Taken]

Gal 2:7-9
Paul ------ Apostle/Minister/teaches Gospel to the Gentiles/heathen/UNcircumcison
Peter/12 - Teaches Gospel to the circumcision.
What is the Gospel Paul teaches ? >> Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
What Gospel did Peter/12 teach ? >> Acts 2:38-45, Acts 8:14-17
The Gospels they taught are SIMILAR but NOT the same
eg Receive/sealed with HS
Paul Eph 1:13 faith/trust/belief in the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel
Peter - repent, believe, baptize, pray & lay hands - Acts 2:38, Acts 8:14-17
Another difference
Peters Gospel was PROPHETIC - Acts 2:16-17
Pauls was MYSTERY unknown to any man - Rom 16:25, Eph 3:3, Eph 3:9, Eph 6:19, Gal 1:11-12
Peter SELL EVERYTHING, all things in common etc Acts 2:44-45

Paul’s mission is Not a Mystery.

Acts 9:
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel

Not a mystery the mission of the Jewish Disciples.

Matt 10:
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Where does Paul teach that ? NOWHERE.

So, who said he did?

Really, so you only like the parts that suit you (Acts 2:38) but not 44.45, how convenient.

No.
I like most of Scripture.
I believe all of Scripture.
I find some Scripture Disappointing.
And Absolutely…
I ONLY “apply” TO ME, Scripture that APPLIES TO saints.

 

[rvmb]

this is age hold question.. the answer is depends on who you ask. all i can say if a christian fails its not th end there is room still at the cross . we do have a advocate. imo it would be hard i would think you would have to literally denounce Christ.. the Bible does say his mercy endure forever Psalm 136 a gospel artist by the name of ray boltzs (spelling ) many years ago announced he was gay? he wrote some very anointed songs ..before the announcement, my ? was he truly saved ? i would hope if i fell back into my old ways ..i would be like the prodigal son come to my senses and get out of the pig pen

Hey Ez, thanks for your response.
Regarding Salvation I look to the teachings of Christ through Paul since as of Acts 9:15 only Paul Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7-9 was given the role to teach Salvation to the gentiles/heathen/UNcircumcision.
Are you aware of any teachings from Paul that teach a believer saved/sealed by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 Gospel can become UNsaved/UNsealed ?
As yet, I don't know of any.

 

[rvmb]

Paul’s mission is Not a Mystery.

Acts 9:
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel

Not a mystery the mission of the Jewish Disciples.

Matt 10:
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:



So, who said he did?



No.
I like most of Scripture.
I believe all of Scripture.
I find some Scripture Disappointing.
And Absolutely…
I ONLY “apply” TO ME, Scripture that APPLIES TO saints.

"Paul’s mission is Not a Mystery."
Keep studying :)
Rom 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Eph 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 6:19
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Col 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Paul's "Mystery" - doctrine.org

Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the secrets of God (1 Corinthians 4.1). Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of…

doctrine.org

 

[rvmb]

Living men are NOT sealed Because they Believe.

Living men ARE sealed because they HEARTFULLY Believe, and CONFESSED their HEARTFUL BELIEF TO the Lord Jesus.

No Sealed man becomes unsealed.

No Sealed man CAN stop believing.

 

[rvmb]

Living men are NOT sealed Because they Believe.

Living men ARE sealed because they HEARTFULLY Believe, and CONFESSED their HEARTFUL BELIEF TO the Lord Jesus.

No Sealed man becomes unsealed.

No Sealed man CAN stop believing.

""Living men are NOT sealed Because they Believe.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 disagrees with you
"".. CONFESSED their HEARTFUL BELIEF TO the Lord Jesus.""
List the verses FROM Paul that supports those claims.
ps Rom 10:9-10 "confess by mouth" is a command to Israel - Rom 10:1

 

[Taken]

"Paul’s mission is Not a Mystery."
Keep studying :)
Rom 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Eph 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 6:19
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Col 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Paul's "Mystery" - doctrine.org

Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the secrets of God (1 Corinthians 4.1). Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of…

doctrine.org

Your Point?

 

[rvmb]

Your Point?

Nothing before Acts 9:15, was known about Paul's mission by man or prophets.
Disagree ? List the verses.

Paul's "Mystery" - doctrine.org

Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the secrets of God (1 Corinthians 4.1). Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of…

doctrine.org

 

[Taken]

""Living men are NOT sealed Because they Believe.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 disagrees with you
"".. CONFESSED their HEARTFUL BELIEF TO the Lord Jesus.""
List the verses FROM Paul that supports those claims.

Rom 10:9-10 "confess by mouth" is a command to Israel - Rom 10:1
[/QUOTE]

Rom 1:
[7] To all that be in Rome,
beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans were Gentiles and Jews lived in Rome among Roman Gentiles.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You dodge forever Heartful confessed belief that is forever and belief that a person can stop believing..
Thus not prepared not prepared to understand.

 

[Taken]

Nothing before Acts 9:15, was known about Paul's mission by man or prophets.

So?

 

[rvmb]

Rom 10:9-10 "confess by mouth" is a command to Israel - Rom 10:1

Rom 1:
[7] To all that be in Rome,
beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans were Gentiles and Jews lived in Rome among Roman Gentiles.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You dodge forever Heartful confessed belief that is forever and belief that a person can stop believing..
Thus not prepared not prepared to understand.
[/QUOTE]

 

[rvmb]

Rom 1:
[7] To all that be in Rome,
beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans were Gentiles and Jews lived in Rome among Roman Gentiles.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You dodge forever Heartful confessed belief that is forever and belief that a person can stop believing..
Thus not prepared not prepared to understand.

[/QUOTE]
Who is Paul addressing/referring to ? :)
His brethen, his kinsmen according to the flesh
Rom ch 9
1I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom ch 10
1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[rvmb]

So?

Your pride/ego will stop you from reading & learning

Paul's "Mystery" - doctrine.org

Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the secrets of God (1 Corinthians 4.1). Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of…

doctrine.org

 

[quietthinker]

Saved, what is it & why the confusion as to how ?​

There is confusion because the understanding of the meaning of words has morphed.
The straight forward text like,
Romans 10:9
'If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.'

is trusted by only a few, while caveats abound amongst others.

The message to the shepherds on Bethlehem's hills has either been forgotten or not taken seriously.
Luke 2:8-10
'And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people.......'

 

[rvmb]

Saved, what is it & why the confusion as to how ?​

There is confusion because the understanding of the meaning of words has morphed.
The straight forward text like,
Romans 10:9
'If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.'

is trusted by only a few, while caveats abound amongst others.

The message to the shepherds on Bethlehem's hills has either been forgotten or not taken seriously.
Luke 2:8-10
'And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people.......'

Rom 10:1-3 - who is Paul referring to ?
6 verses later, who is Paul stating "confess by mouth" to ?
1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.