Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

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rwb

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  1. Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
  2. Was he at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
  3. Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
  4. Was he created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?
  5. Do you not believe in the total depravity of man any more?

Is Satan or was he ever called anointed cherub?

How was the serpent in the paradise of God?

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

How or when did Satan protect the holy mountain of God?

Since Satan was from the beginning a murderer and liar when does Scripture tell us Satan was created perfect in his ways from the day he was created (whenever was that?) until iniquity was found in him?

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Man was created very good but MAN, not SATAN became fallen when they freely chose to disobey God, now ALL mankind is born natural and in a fallen state under the same evil influence from their father the devil, that brought sin and death through sin into creation. It is for this cause that ALL men must be born again to have eternal life through another Spirit within them!
 

rwb

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Address the issues and stop ducking and diving around them.

Do elect angels possess believers or are they distinct entities that function external to them?

Is Satan or was he ever called anointed cherub?

How was the serpent in the paradise of God?

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

How or when did Satan protect the holy mountain of God?

Since Satan was from the beginning a murderer and liar when does Scripture tell us Satan was created perfect in his ways from the day he was created (whenever was that?) until iniquity was found in him?

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Man was created very good but MAN, not SATAN became fallen when they freely chose to disobey God, now ALL mankind is born natural and in a fallen state under the same evil influence from their father the devil, that brought sin and death through sin into creation. It is for this cause that ALL men must be born again to have eternal life through another Spirit within them!
 

WPM

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What/who are elect angels?
How many posts do you want to ignore? You have been shown several times before.

1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
 

WPM

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Is Satan or was he ever called anointed cherub?

How was the serpent in the paradise of God?

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

How or when did Satan protect the holy mountain of God?

Since Satan was from the beginning a murderer and liar when does Scripture tell us Satan was created perfect in his ways from the day he was created (whenever was that?) until iniquity was found in him?

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Man was created very good but MAN, not SATAN became fallen when they freely chose to disobey God, now ALL mankind is born natural and in a fallen state under the same evil influence from their father the devil, that brought sin and death through sin into creation. It is for this cause that ALL men must be born again to have eternal life through another Spirit within them!
LOL. You are avoiding every question.

You would make a great Pretribber.

Your mentor has misled you. He has run leaving you holding the baby.
 

WPM

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Is Satan or was he ever called anointed cherub?

How was the serpent in the paradise of God?

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

How or when did Satan protect the holy mountain of God?

Since Satan was from the beginning a murderer and liar when does Scripture tell us Satan was created perfect in his ways from the day he was created (whenever was that?) until iniquity was found in him?

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Man was created very good but MAN, not SATAN became fallen when they freely chose to disobey God, now ALL mankind is born natural and in a fallen state under the same evil influence from their father the devil, that brought sin and death through sin into creation. It is for this cause that ALL men must be born again to have eternal life through another Spirit within them!
LOL. I showed this in the Op and you've ducked around it ever since. You have to! All you have now is evasive cut-and-pastes.
 

WPM

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Is Satan or was he ever called anointed cherub?

How was the serpent in the paradise of God?

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

How or when did Satan protect the holy mountain of God?

Since Satan was from the beginning a murderer and liar when does Scripture tell us Satan was created perfect in his ways from the day he was created (whenever was that?) until iniquity was found in him?

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Man was created very good but MAN, not SATAN became fallen when they freely chose to disobey God, now ALL mankind is born natural and in a fallen state under the same evil influence from their father the devil, that brought sin and death through sin into creation. It is for this cause that ALL men must be born again to have eternal life through another Spirit within them!
  1. Was the king of Tyrus an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16)?
  2. Was he at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13)?
  3. Did he protect "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14)?
  4. Was he created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15)?
  5. Do you not believe in the total depravity of man any more?
 

WPM

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Is Satan or was he ever called anointed cherub?

How was the serpent in the paradise of God?

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

How or when did Satan protect the holy mountain of God?

Since Satan was from the beginning a murderer and liar when does Scripture tell us Satan was created perfect in his ways from the day he was created (whenever was that?) until iniquity was found in him?

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Man was created very good but MAN, not SATAN became fallen when they freely chose to disobey God, now ALL mankind is born natural and in a fallen state under the same evil influence from their father the devil, that brought sin and death through sin into creation. It is for this cause that ALL men must be born again to have eternal life through another Spirit within them!
  • Are angels human spirits?
  • Where angels here before man?
  • Where angels in heaven before the first resurrection?
 

rwb

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How many posts do you want to ignore? You have been shown several times before.

1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Elect messengers are human beings no different than John the Baptist. They are the elders that rule well who are worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the Word and doctrine. Three witnesses, God, the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect messengers through Christ's Spirit in them. Angelos in this passage is not referring to angels of God in heaven.

1 John 5:7-9 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, [God] the Word, [Christ] and the Holy Ghost: [within faithful elders] and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
 
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rwb

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LOL. You are avoiding every question.

I'm simply repeating the same thing again and again as you continually do! You refuse to address what I've said and instead parrot repeatedly the same things.
 

WPM

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Elect messengers are human beings no different than John the Baptist. They are the elders that rule well who are worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the Word and doctrine. Three witnesses God, the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect messengers through Christ's Spirit in them. Angelos in this passage is not referring to angels of God in heaven.

1 John 5:7-9 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, [God] the Word, [Christ] and the Holy Ghost: [within faithful elders] and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Your teacher TribulationSigns has misled you. They are angels.

Now, can you address all the multiple avoided posts in this thread? You are a master at avoidance and running.
 

WPM

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I'm simply repeating the same thing again and again as you continually do! You refuse to address what I've said and instead parrot repeatedly the same things.
No! I presented the Op. You have not addressed/refuted one single point. You have ducked and dived around the biblical evidence. You have to. Avoidance is your MO. It is there for all to see.
 

WPM

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Op Note

Pick a page on this thread and notice how TribulationSigns and rwb have failed to address or rebut the Op or any of the scriptural arguments presented to them. Their denial of angels and demons/Satan is both grievous and heretical. They have ducked and dived around the biblical evidence. They have to. It is there for all to see.
 

rwb

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LOL. I showed this in the Op and you've ducked around it ever since. You have to! All you have now is evasive cut-and-pastes.

My contention in this thread was, and continues to be the FACT that you and many with you erroneously believe that Satan was created an angel of God, even the highest-ranking angel and became Satan through sin/pride. You are the one who continues to evade every single answer through evasive cut and pastes. Then you continually twist and misrepresent what I've actually said, making it appear I've said things I have not said. It's one thing to be deceived and in error believe a lie. But its so far worse when we become the one to deceive others teaching doctrines as truth that can and have been shown to be unbiblical. ADDRESS WHAT I SAY, AND IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'VE SAID DON'T ASSUME THAT I'VE SAID SOMETHING THAT I HAVE NEVER BELIEVED NOR HAVE I SAID!
Your teacher TribulationSigns has misled you. They are angels.

Now, can you address all the multiple avoided posts in this thread? You are a master at avoidance and running.

Telling me they are angels of God does not prove anything! I've shown you why I believe they are elect messengers like John the Baptist with biblical reference. But I guess your teacher who ever that may be has misled you, because it appears you cannot biblically prove what you allege.
 

rwb

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Op Note

Pick a page on this thread and notice how TribulationSigns and rwb have failed to address or rebut the Op or any of the scriptural arguments presented to them. Their denial of angels and demons/Satan is both grievous and heretical. They have ducked and dived around the biblical evidence. They have to. It is there for all to see.

It is YOU, not TS who believes Satan was created an angel of God and became Satan!!! My objective throughout this thread has been to prove Satan has never been an angel of God! You're so worried about TS teaching heretical doctrine, then close your eyes to the FACT that you are the one teaching unbiblical doctrine by teaching others that Satan was an angel of God who was very good before becoming evil.
 

WPM

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It is YOU, not TS who believes Satan was created an angel of God and became Satan!!! My objective throughout this thread has been to prove Satan has never been an angel of God! You're so worried about TS teaching heretical doctrine, then close your eyes to the FACT that you are the one teaching unbiblical doctrine by teaching others that Satan was an angel of God who was very good before becoming evil.
Of course he is created. Read the biblical evidence in the Op.

Ezekiel 28:12-19: “Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”

Cherubims are angels, not humans. Here is an angel that is going to be destroyed. This is describing Satan.

Exo 37:9 And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.

Revelation 12:1-4 shows Satan and his devils being eternally evicted from heaven. Interestingly the demonic angels are depicted as “stars.” It reads: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon ... And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

In Revelation 12:4, 1/3 of the angels sided with Satan in his rebellion. They sided with him when he fell, and are part of the kingdom of darkness.

Job 38:6-7 tells us, speaking about the beginning of time, “Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

Revelation 9:1 says: I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the abyss.”

It seems correct to view the flying star in view here as an elect angel. Remember, the key or authority no longer belongs to Satan. He was defeated. Christ and His angels exercise that now within the invisible realm. We exercise it upon the earth.

It is clear that stars are used by John in Revelation as symbols of angels. A falling star is a common easily-recognized natural symbol that is used in a spiritual way here to describe an elect angel descending from heaven before the end of time to open the pit to release Satan and his demons from their restraint in order to restrict the great commission.
 

rwb

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Of course he is created. Read the biblical evidence in the Op.

Ezekiel 28:12-19: “Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”

Cherubims are angels, not humans. Here is an angel that is going to be destroyed. This is describing Satan.

Exo 37:9 And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.

Revelation 12:1-4 shows Satan and his devils being eternally evicted from heaven. Interestingly the demonic angels are depicted as “stars.” It reads: “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon ... And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

In Revelation 12:4, 1/3 of the angels sided with Satan in his rebellion. They sided with him when he fell, and are part of the kingdom of darkness.

Job 38:6-7 tells us, speaking about the beginning of time, “Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

Revelation 9:1 says: I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the abyss.”

It seems correct to view the flying star in view here as an elect angel. Remember, the key or authority no longer belongs to Satan. He was defeated. Christ and His angels exercise that now within the invisible realm. We exercise it upon the earth.

It is clear that stars are used by John in Revelation as symbols of angels. A falling star is a common easily-recognized natural symbol that is used in a spiritual way here to describe an elect angel descending from heaven before the end of time to open the pit to release Satan and his demons from their restraint in order to restrict the great commission.

This repetition has already been biblically refuted! Of which you conveniently ignore! Why? Is it because you would rather continue to be the deceiver than admit that you are wrong and have not rightly understood the Scripture?
 

WPM

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This repetition has already been biblically refuted! Of which you conveniently ignore! Why? Is it because you would rather continue to be the deceiver than admit that you are wrong and have not rightly understood the Scripture?
You are incapable of refuting the truth. That is because you are full of heresy. The one you deny is misleading you.
 

rwb

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You are incapable of refuting the truth. That is because you are full of heresy. The one you deny is misleading you.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? – Matthew 7:3
 

MatthewG

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Satan was the Jewish people at the time trying to obstruct God being reached, by worshiping the Law more than the Creator...

You see this all through out the Gospel narrative. At least it's my opinion and suggestion.

Human beings are born with good and evil already in them... So I do believe Satan is done away with including the his angels.

I do believe people loved darkness, and thats why the Jews loved darkness and hated the light - and killed Jesus.


im not an anti-semite.
 

WPM

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This repetition has already been biblically refuted! Of which you conveniently ignore! Why? Is it because you would rather continue to be the deceiver than admit that you are wrong and have not rightly understood the Scripture?
This shows that Satan was an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14&16), was at one time in the "Paradise of God" (Ezekiel 28:13), he protected "the holy mountain of God" (Ezekiel 28:14), he was created "perfect" in his ways "from the day" he was "created" till "iniquity was found in" him (Ezekiel 28:15).

King of Tyrus was not so.