The sons of God

[rwb]

IMO that's just total gibberish. I now realize that @Spiritual Israelite 's concern regarding what you believe is not only valid, but what you believe is even further from the truth than what he thought.

You don't believe the greatest evil one might conceive of is the crucifixion of Christ? Yet this evil, ordained by God brought salvation with eternal life to whosoever among mankind would believe on Him. But you don't believe God used this evil to bring about good for His people? IMO you lack understanding of how ALL things are used to bring about good to the sons of God. Which is why you cannot accept the FACT that God did not abolish the darkness altogether but uses evil that comes through darkness to bring about good. Read the account of Joseph where he speaks of this truth.

 

[Taken]

Isa 14 is a proverb against the king of Babylon. And Eze 28 is unto the king of Tyrus. Because both of these kings had turned away from God, believing themselves to be greater than God. Neither of these are directed to the so-called fallen angel Satan. These are directed to MAN, and not to spirit angels.

Pay attention…Speaking of earthly kings…changes to speaking of Lucifer…

Powerful Lucifer having been made perfect and fell from Grace… and human men, kings with power…although mighty… can each become arrogant and fall from Gods Saving Grace.

Isa. 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
[15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


Highly positioned (king) Man nor mighty Angels… supersede Gods power and Are warned they can be be sent down too hell.

 

[rwb]

Adam & Eve's hearts had convicted them of their sin and so they hid from God because they knew this:

How were they convicted of their sin since they were not created with knowledge of good or evil? Their heart convicted them because they knew they had been deceived by the serpent (Satan/darkness). But this too is according to the will of God! If God did not desire that A&E come to understand evil through sin and death, why did He allow the serpent (Satan/darkness/death) into the garden knowing that he was more cunning and crafty than any other creation? God allowed the fall that mankind would know evil through experience, knowing that He had provided a remedy for sin and death before they were created. If mankind remained without knowledge of good and evil, how would they ever know the goodness of the Savior?

Genesis 3:13 (KJV) And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

How can you agree with @TribulationSigns about Satan somehow being a human spirit, or a spirit produced in the hearts / minds of humans?

I don't believe, nor have I ever said that Satan is a human being! What I have said, is that fallen mankind has the same ((((spirit)))) of their father, the Devil. All of fallen humanity has the same spirit as the spirit of Satan until we have been born again and receive a new Holy Spirit through the Spirit of Christ within us.

What I agree with TS about is that mankind before we are born again are ALL of the fallen spirit of Satan. We are not sons of God through the Spirit of Christ until we are born again. Just as when we are in Christ through His Spirit in us, we are begotten of the Spirit of Christ, so too man without the Spirit of Christ in us are the spirit of Satan, naturally, since the fall, sons/children of the Devil. Satan is not created in us, we are of him, being his children naturally by human birth from the fall. That's why man MUST be born again through the Spirit of Christ to know and enter the Kingdom of God. Man MUST be indwelt with a new Spirit that replaces the natural spirit we became from the fall. Being of the spirit of Satan does not mean we are altogether despicable human beings. Remember that Satan and his followers are transformed as messengers of light, looking and sounding very much like faithful Christians. Which is why Scripture repeatedly warns us to be on guard because some of those who resemble Christians are the spirit of Satan, roaming around and seeking whom they may devour.

It's very clear throughout scripture that Satan and mankind are separate entities - and it's very clear that the one (man) is the creation of God, whom God created in His own image and likeness; and the other (Satan) is:

If that's true, and mankind before being born again of the Spirit are never one and the same entity, either of Satan, or of Christ, why would Scripture call unbelievers children of their father the devil, but also say when we are of the Spirit of Christ, we are called children of God?

Your musing and beliefs about these things that you have expressed in your post which I'm replying to has not produced biblical theology, truth and light IMO. It's produced "lies" and "darkness", and is not a belief in the Word of God on this subject

IMHO you have bought into the lies perpetrated by those whose beliefs keep them from believing the sons of God are NOT fallen angels. Believing Satan was created an angel of God before he fell, clouds all biblical truth from them. Which is why they attack the messengers, as you too have begun to also.

but you are not "Satan". Nor are your beliefs "Satan". Some (all of it that is not biblical) may have come from Satan, but faith in lies and the musing going on in your mind is not any "the force be with you" devil.

You have the audacity to slander and accuse implying that I am of Satan! This is telling, you are no different than those who deny the sons of God are human beings, not fallen angels.

 

[rwb]

Pay attention…Speaking of earthly kings…changes to speaking of Lucifer…

Powerful Lucifer having been made perfect and fell from Grace… and human men, kings with power…although mighty… can each become arrogant and fall from Gods Saving Grace.

Isa. 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
[15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


Highly positioned (king) Man nor mighty Angels… supersede Gods power and Are warned they can be be sent down too hell.

If you want me to pay attention to what you have to say, you'll have to biblically answer these questions.

Lucifer means 'the morning star'. Christ is the 'morning star'. Can you biblically prove Satan called the morning star (Lucifer) is ever identified as being the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star?

Revelation 22:16 (KJV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Christ promises the faithful overcomers of the church that they will receive the 'morning star' for being faithful to the end. Will overcomers to the end be rewarded with Satan, a fallen angel, or with Christ?

Revelation 2:26-29 (KJV) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Can you also biblically prove that Satan was once an angel of God but fell and became evil Satan? That makes zero sense because in the garden at the beginning of creation Satan as the serpent shows himself to be a liar and murderer just as Christ says he is and has always, from the beginning been. It's easy to understand why Satan is called the father of lies but never called the morning star or angel of God.

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Finally can you also biblically prove why anyone would believe Satan was created an angel of God who became the devil since God tells us what His angels are and why God sends them to man? When is Satan ever a ministering spirit of God sent to minister to heirs of salvation?

Hebrews 1:7 (KJV) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Hebrews 1:13-14 (KJV) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

If you want me to pay any attention to your belief that Lucifer is Satan, you'll have to first explain how you resolve these inconsistencies and contradictions your view forces into the Word of God.

If you cannot answer these inconsistencies from the Word of God, perhaps you should pay more attention to what the Bible actually tells us, and less attention to what those who believe a lie try to force into the Word of God.

 

[The Light]

Pay attention…Speaking of earthly kings…changes to speaking of Lucifer…

Powerful Lucifer having been made perfect and fell from Grace… and human men, kings with power…although mighty… can each become arrogant and fall from Gods Saving Grace.

Isa. 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
[15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


Highly positioned (king) Man nor mighty Angels… supersede Gods power and Are warned they can be be sent down too hell.

Those verses are not referring to Lucifer who is Satan.

 

[The Light]

If you want me to pay any attention to your belief that Lucifer is Satan, you'll have to first explain how you resolve these inconsistencies and contradictions your view forces into the Word of God.

The verses are not referring to Lucifer who is Satan.

If you cannot answer these inconsistencies from the Word of God, perhaps you should pay more attention to what the Bible actually tells us, and less attention to what those who believe a lie try to force into the Word of God.

There is not an inconsistency as Jesus is the morning star.

The translation of Lucifer is incorrect. The root would translate to day star, not morning star.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Isa 14:12

• How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Let me remind this to all of you...Jesus Christ is THEE bright and morning star. Lucifer is not the morning star. He is shinning son "OF" the morning. The meaning of [heylel] is shinning. It is from the root Hebrew word [halal], literally to be clear, and by extension that which is transparent or has a shine. I do not believe that it is really as complicated as many people would make it out to be. A near literal reading of this sentence would be:

"How art thou fallen from heaven shinning son of the morning! Thou art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

It's an spiritual allegory of sorts, the portent of which is to illustrate the Satanic falling away of those who have rule over God's people and did corrupt the nations, prefigured as Babylon, and their king as Satan. They are symbolized even as stars and their king as Satan that is falling from his place in heaven.

Isaiah 14:13

• "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

It is MAN, ruled by Satan, as he sits to rule in the congregation of Israel. There really is no contradiction here or confusion in him being called a "Shinning son of the Morning" fallen from heaven. He is not pictured as the Morning Star, Christ. He is pictured or prefigured as the son of the Morning Star. In other words, a son of God in the external or corporate sense. And if we search through Scripture carefully we will learn that all "professing believers" of the Old Testament and New Testament are spoken of symbolically or allegorically as being stars in the kingdom of heaven, the congregation. Daniel and Revelation are some clear examples. So the only problem with this language of Isaiah is that which some people choose to create for themselves. The Lord speaks through scripture in parables, allegories, figures, and with symbolism. When we profess Christ we are called sons of God because He is the Son of God. When we profess Christ we are called Messengers because Christ is the Messenger. When we profess Christ we are called Israel because Christ is the Israel of God. When we profess Christ we are called stars because Christ is the Star. When we profess Christ we are called the light of the world because Christ is the Light of the world. Selah! There is no great mystery here. God is prefiguring a falling away. And it's no mystery that the language sounds a lot like that found in 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 and in Revelation Chapter 18 of the fall of Babylon (The New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church.)

Isaiah 14:12-15

• "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
• For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
• I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
• Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

For example, the shinning star falling from heaven because he wanted to be like God is symbolism for those professing Christ, those in the Church that is spiritually babylon, who have fallen away (Apostasy) and who ruled in God's house "AS IF " they were God. They forsook His word and counciled according to what seemed right in their own eyes. They corrupted God's word with their own definitions and explanations. As such, they are ruled of Satan and are as stars falling from heaven to the earth. They made themselves to be as God. Even as Israel did, and even as many are doing today. They are the sons of the morning, the stars falling from heaven. God hath given judgement to His elect.

 

[soberxp]

Isa 14:12

• How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Let me remind this to all of you...Jesus Christ is THEE bright and morning star. Lucifer is not the morning star. He is shinning son "OF" the morning. The meaning of [heylel] is shinning. It is from the root Hebrew word [halal], literally to be clear, and by extension that which is transparent or has a shine. I do not believe that it is really as complicated as many people would make it out to be. A near literal reading of this sentence would be:

"How art thou fallen from heaven shinning son of the morning! Thou art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

It's an spiritual allegory of sorts, the portent of which is to illustrate the Satanic falling away of those who have rule over God's people and did corrupt the nations, prefigured as Babylon, and their king as Satan. They are symbolized even as stars and their king as Satan that is falling from his place in heaven.

Isaiah 14:13

• "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

It is MAN, ruled by Satan, as he sits to rule in the congregation of Israel. There really is no contradiction here or confusion in him being called a "Shinning son of the Morning" fallen from heaven. He is not pictured as the Morning Star, Christ. He is pictured or prefigured as the son of the Morning Star. In other words, a son of God in the external or corporate sense. And if we search through Scripture carefully we will learn that all "professing believers" of the Old Testament and New Testament are spoken of symbolically or allegorically as being stars in the kingdom of heaven, the congregation. Daniel and Revelation are some clear examples. So the only problem with this language of Isaiah is that which some people choose to create for themselves. The Lord speaks through scripture in parables, allegories, figures, and with symbolism. When we profess Christ we are called sons of God because He is the Son of God. When we profess Christ we are called Messengers because Christ is the Messenger. When we profess Christ we are called Israel because Christ is the Israel of God. When we profess Christ we are called stars because Christ is the Star. When we profess Christ we are called the light of the world because Christ is the Light of the world. Selah! There is no great mystery here. God is prefiguring a falling away. And it's no mystery that the language sounds a lot like that found in 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 and in Revelation Chapter 18 of the fall of Babylon (The New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church.)

Isaiah 14:12-15

• "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
• For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
• I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
• Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

For example, the shinning star falling from heaven because he wanted to be like God is symbolism for those professing Christ, those in the Church that is spiritually babylon, who have fallen away (Apostasy) and who ruled in God's house "AS IF " they were God. They forsook His word and counciled according to what seemed right in their own eyes. They corrupted God's word with their own definitions and explanations. As such, they are ruled of Satan and are as stars falling from heaven to the earth. They made themselves to be as God. Even as Israel did, and even as many are doing today. They are the sons of the morning, the stars falling from heaven. God hath given judgement to His elect.

I quite agree with your point of view.

genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

 

[Zao is life]

I don't believe, nor have I ever said that Satan is a human being!

I did not say that you said that Satan is a human being!

You have the audacity to slander and accuse implying that I am of Satan! This is telling, you are no different than those who deny the sons of God are human beings, not fallen angels.

I did not slander you at all. Is any religious idea that is not biblical, or contradicts scripture, of God?

I did not say that you yourself are of Satan - but anything you believe that is not true, not biblical and not of God, is of Satan - because he is the father of ALL religious lies.

It is you that claims all who are not born again have the same spirit as their father, Satan:

What I have said, is that fallen mankind has the same ((((spirit)))) of their father, the Devil. All of fallen humanity has the same spirit as the spirit of Satan until we have been born again and receive a new Holy Spirit through the Spirit of Christ within us.

1. Satan is a spirit which is not able to beget other spirits.

2. No living [zao], breathing being that is alive [zao] and which God told Noah has the breath of life [zoe] in it has a spirit that is of Satan!

"And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life." (Genesis 7:15 [UKJV])

The breath of life is of the Spirit of God:

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7 [UKJV])

3. We are born with a body and a soul:

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,

Life [zōē]: "and breathed (spirit) into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life [zoe];"
Living | Alive [zaō]: "and man became a living [zao] soul. [psuche]." *

"For the life [Hebrew: nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [nephesh] | Greek: psuchḗ]." (Leviticus 17:11).

However, until we are given eternal life [zoe aionios] - which is in Christ - that life is temporary:

"For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away." (James 4:14b [UKJV])

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7 [UKJV])

Our eternal life [zoe aioniois] that is given to us, is in Christ:

"For all of you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Colossians 3:3 [UKJV])

" And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life [zoe aionios], and this (eternal) life is in his Son. He that has the Son has (eternal) life; and he that has not the Son of God has not (eternal) life." (I John 5:11-12 [UKJV])

But you say the spirit of the human who has not received eternal life in Christ is Satan's spirit!!

What I have said, is that fallen mankind has the same ((((spirit)))) of their father, the Devil. All of fallen humanity has the same spirit as the spirit of Satan until we have been born again and receive a new Holy Spirit through the Spirit of Christ within us.

Your religious ideas are not biblical, not true, and not of God. Does "Satan's spirit in you" die when someone is given eternal life in Christ? Or does someone's "spirit of Satan" die when they are given eternal life in Christ?

How were they convicted of their sin since they were not created with knowledge of good or evil? Their heart convicted them because they knew they had been deceived by the serpent (Satan/darkness).

That's absolute nonsense. They KNEW the commandment of God and they KNEW they had disobeyed the commandment of God so they KNEW that they had sinned. They were not idiots.

Besides that, once they had sinned they gained an intimate knowledge of sin - so they had the knowledge of good and evil - and this is why they hid themselves from God.

It's very clear that you are making things up as you go along - is it because you know in your heart that your religious ideas that you are expressing in this thread are not biblical, not true, and not of God (i.e, they are lies and all religious lies are of Satan)?

But this too is according to the will of God!

Another lie from the devil - asserting that God commanded them not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil "because it was according to His will that they do what He commanded them not to do" - in order that He could "use THE SIN to bless mankind".

(A) Your assertion calls God a liar - which is what Satan did when He contradicted what God had said would be the consequence to them if they disobeyed the commandment.

(B) It denigrates the incredible mercy of God - which came ONLY THROUGH THE HUMILIATION AND SUFFERING OF THE SON OF GOD ON A CROSS.

Your assertion that Adam's SIN was according to God's will is blasphemous.

Your religious ideas regarding these things that we've been talking about are not biblical, not true, not of God, and blasphemous. I'm not suggesting that statement to you - I'm stating a fact - and since your religious ideas are not of God, they are of Satan - because HE is the father of all lies:

If God did not desire that A&E come to understand evil through sin and death, why did He allow the serpent (Satan/darkness/death) into the garden knowing that he was more cunning and crafty than any other creation?

You keep showing how far from God your are in your mind through your religious thinking.

God had created MANKIND in His own image and likeness and given them (US - because we are all the seed of Adam) a commandment - which meant that He had created them (US) with the ability TO CHOOSE to obey and worship God, or not.

Our choice could not be proved without allowing Satan to lie to our mother and through our mother, to our father, Adam.

BUT IN HIS MERCY THE LAST ADAM WAS SENT INTO THE WILDERNESS TO FACE THE SAME TEST AND PROVED HIMSELF FAITHFUL ON OUR BEHALF - GOD BECOMING MAN TO SAVE US FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR SIN.

God allowed the fall that mankind would know evil through experience, knowing that He had provided a remedy for sin and death before they were created.

Stop blaspheming God with your religion - because that is INDEED what you ARE doing.

You're a blasphemer and do not know (therefore do not inwardly have) an appreciation of the mercy of God and why it became necessary for Christ to die for us.

You blaspheme God by asserting that when He gave Adam the commandment which said "thou shalt not", what He "actually meant" was "I know you are going to do what I commamded you not to do - and I WANT YOU TO - and this is the reason I am giving you this commandment."

It shows up your opinion of God's will and character and holiness and perfection- and your opinion is a satanic lie which is Satanically inspired.

Your words prove that you are still in the first Adam - because like the first Adam, you believe an adaptation of the same lies that Satan told Adam and Eve.

Your religious ideas in this regard are not biblical, not true, not of God, and not Christian - they are of Satan.

If mankind remained without knowledge of good and evil, how would they ever know the goodness of the Savior?

What is the matter with you? So according to you it was OK for them to disobey God (which disobedience was an act of worshiping Satan) just because if they had not done so, Jesus would not have suffered as greatly as He did for our sins, and God would not have been humiliated as He needed to be by becoming a man, and by the death of Jesus on the cross in order to save us - and this is why God "actually wanted them to sin"?

Honestly, what is the matter with you?

I've had enough. I encourage you to repent of your blasphemous religious ideas, and I pray that God grant you repentance

- but I'm not casting any more pearls of the words (truth) of God before you by engaging any further in this vile discussion of yours - you do not have ears to hear GOD'S Word contained in scripture, and you have instead twisted them with truly Satanic religious ideas and beliefs.

 

[TribulationSigns]

genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Very good that you bring it up. These were indeed physical creation but also has spiritual signification for our understanding. For example:

The sun represents the light of the world, and that is why Christ is spoken of as the Sun. Because in Scripture, light is symbolic of righteousness or purity:

Psalms 37:6

• "And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday."

Now the moon represents the congregation or church. She does does not have her own light but reflect the light of righteousness (Christ). And we, as messengers, of God are light bearers. This is why the messengers of the Church are called stars. Because stars are the lessor lights, or "little suns", the light of the world (Matthew 5:14) Christ brings through them. Because we have ethe Holy Spirit within us.

The candlesticks/Lampstands in Revelation 12 represent the Church because they bring light. Even as the Moon we read in Revelation 12 is under the Woman's feet is a symbol of light, guiding her path. Because all these things God instituted from the beginning for lights!

Indeed! And we, as the messengers of God, are symbolized in Revelation as stars "because" stars are the light bearers in heaven. And we represent the kingdom of heaven ON EARTH. Again, when Christ spoke of the end time and spoke of darkness because of stars falling from heaven, He's talking about us, the church. More specificallyl, the professed beleivers of the congregation falling. Not the True Elect. Okay? Symbolically, that's the fall of the church that brings darkness all over the face of the earth. The same example when there was darkness when Christ was crucified, symbolizing the light was taken away. In Christ's prophecy, you didn't really think literal stars the size of many earths, could actually fall to this earth did you? There would be nothing left. This is why so many miss the spiritual nature of the prophecy because they are looking through carnal eyes. The stars represent the people of the congregation, the light bearers, the candles, the messengers of God. Even as the 12 stars in Joseph's Dreams in the Old Covenant were "representing" his 12 brothers, symbolized the twelve tribes of Israel. There are no coincidences in God's word. Or again:

Genesis 22:17

• "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

We are indeed the stars, the son "OF" the morning, of heaven through Christ, THEE bright and morning star (Revelation 22:16) who leads us. Christ is not a literal star anymore than we are. But He is the Ultimate light bearer, which stars represent. The prophecy that the congregation of God would extend all over the earth (Genesis 15:5) to bless all nations and kindreds and languages, is fulfilled in the church through Christ.

Revelation 1:20

• "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the "Messengers" of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

A mystery no more since God has just revealed it to "he who hath an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches." The Candlesticks are the churches and the candles are the light bearers. The seven stars likewise are the messengers of the churches and the number seven is to "represent" the completeness/perfection of that church--and its universal extension to all the world, a blessing, exhorting, and warning to all these churches throughout time. Not just the churches in Asia. But you'll never see that truth if anyone keep denying and fighting against the symbolic, parabolic, or allegorical nature of God's complex, complicated, and intricately woven word.

Revelation 12:1

• "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

There's no literal woman floating in heaven (or in third heaven) with twelve literal stars in her head. NO! The woman is the congregation of Israel, and the 12 stars are the messengers of that congregation! This alone should alert any faithful Christian of the allegorical nature of the stars, as well as the woman. Notice what God says about them.

Revelation 12:4

• "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

Here we should "see" HOW stars are cast out of heaven, and it's not supernatural wicked beings who were living with God in third heaven where NO EVIL could exist, suddenly turning evil. Selah!!

If you understand who the woman actually represents, you must logically understand who the stars are who were situated on her head who are cast from her. Stars being cast down from this woman by the devil is not a coincidence anymore than the kingdom taken from Israel is. It represents the fall of the Old Testament congregation through the wiles of the Devil in those messengers (ie. Pharaisee, Scibes, and professed judializers) rejecting of Christ in their apostasy. And he who hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The stars are representing God's messengers of His congregation. Not supernatural angels, but human messengers!

Like I said, spiritual discerned!

 

[The Light]

Isa 14:12

• How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Let me remind this to all of you...Jesus Christ is THEE bright and morning star. Lucifer is not the morning star. He is shinning son "OF" the morning. The meaning of [heylel] is shinning. It is from the root Hebrew word [halal], literally to be clear, and by extension that which is transparent or has a shine. I do not believe that it is really as complicated as many people would make it out to be. A near literal reading of this sentence would be:

"How art thou fallen from heaven shinning son of the morning! Thou art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

It's an spiritual allegory of sorts, the portent of which is to illustrate the Satanic falling away of those who have rule over God's people and did corrupt the nations, prefigured as Babylon, and their king as Satan. They are symbolized even as stars and their king as Satan that is falling from his place in heaven.

The verses in Isaiah 14 are talking about the King of Babylon who is Nimrod, who is the DAY STAR.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The verses in Isaiah 14 are talking about the King of Babylon who is Nimrod, who is the DAY STAR.

No. Not at all! You lack understanding what Isaiah 14 talks about.

There was NEVER an angel named lucifer in heaven. You cannot find one single scripture that says Lucifer was what men call an angel, nor is he ever called an angel. Frankly, that is the eisegesis (not exegesis) of men who do not understand that the scriptures are Spiritual books full of imagery, typology, representations, symbolism, and metaphors. i.e., the bondwoman and the freewoman of history are used of God as a "representation" of congregations of works and grace--the true congregation and the false. Likewise, Isaiah's chapter 14 is a vivid historical representation or simile of a deeper spiritual truth illustrated in the king of Babylon. Lucifer loosely means morning star. Stars are representations of those of the congregation (see Revelation). In fact, he is literally called [ben shachar], or son of the morning illustrating light. This is NOT because he is an angel, but because he is God's messenger bringing judgment upon the unfaithful. Why do we suppose Revelation 18 illustrates so vividly the fall of the congregation and is so closely identified with Babylon, humm? Because of the sinful man rules there in place of God. He is also known as the man of sin or the man of lawlessness, which is man ruled over by Satan.

Moreover, Revelation chapter 12 illustrates what is meant by messengers being cast out of heaven when Christ was born, and it is NOT angels dropping out of the sky. It illustrated the defeat of Satan by Christ and those messengers he ruled over coming under judgment where they no longer are represented in the Kingdom of Heaven. The exact same illustration Christ put forth when He sent the 70 out with the gospel. What did the say when they came back?

Luke 10:16-18

• "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
• And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
• And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

Christ beheld Satan fall from literal heaven? Did anyone there see the Devil or his angels falling out of the sky? Of course not! Because the language "represents" something deeper, spiritual, and symbolic. His defeat of Satan where his captives are freed, and his messengers judged. The same with Isaiah:

Isaiah 14:12

• "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Almost the exact same language because it's talking about the same phenomenon of the completion of warfare and judgment of messengers. It "represented" the fall of those that did weaken the nations.

For informational purposes, the name Lucifer is actually mentioned only one time in the Bible, and that only in reference to the King of Babylon, who is used as a synonym for man ruling the people of God "as if" he were God, and how God ultimately brings judgment upon him for his rebellion in usurping the role of Jehovah. When Isaiah 14 says the king of Babylon (Lucifer) has fallen from heaven, it illustrates his abandonment of the laws of the kingdom of heaven. It doesn't mean that the King of Babylon, called Lucifer or Nimord, was actually in heaven, Selah! This is also reiterated by the very next verse which says that in this King's heart he wanted to exalt his throne above the stars. "Meaning" that he wanted to rule the congregation "as if" he were God. Get it? The same scenario as 2nd Thessalonians 2 where we read of the same sinful man who opposed God and exalted himself so that (effectively) he was sitting to rule in the temple of God as man (Revelation 2:4). This is the exact same scenario as is written in Isaiah 14:

Isaiah 14:13

• "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

He was a man wanting to rule the kingdom of God's congregation, as if he were God.

As for the Ezekiel reference, again it is the very same portrait of God condemning man for exalting himself to sit and rule "as if" he were God:

Ezekiel 28:2

• "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:"

As in Isaiah 14, this passage refers to a man, represented by the Prince of Tyrus, and it is also used as a Spiritual allegory or portrait of sinful man as he rules in the congregation of God, and how God ultimately brings judgment upon him for his rebellion in usurping the role of God.

Selah!

 

[rwb]

It is you that claims all who are not born again have the same spirit as their father, Satan:

What is the spirit within fallen man that must be born again of the Spirit of God? Is it not natural, of the earth, replicating the spirit of this world? It certainly is NOT the Spirit of truth the world cannot receive!

1 Corinthians 2:12 (KJV) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Ephesians 2:2 (KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

1 John 4:1 (KJV) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

All of mankind in unbelief has the spirit of the devil, that is of the world, lost and destined to damnation. Do you not understand that's why man MUST BE BORN AGAIN through the Spirit of Christ to have everlasting eternal life through Him. Why must EVERY MAN be born again through the Spirit of Christ in us if we have not the spirit of this world, the spirit that works in the children of disobedience within us?

We are born with a body and a soul:

Man is naturally born with a body with a spirit that together are living souls. It is the spirit that gives life, and the flesh profits nothing.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Before mankind is born again through the Spirit of Christ, our spirit is natural, of the earth giving us natural physical life. When a man has been born again of the Spirit of Christ, the life we possess is eternal life that does not come naturally but is supernatural eternal life that shall never die.

Our eternal life [zoe aioniois] that is given to us, is in Christ:

Yes, in Christ, THROUGH His Spirit in us! It is only when man is born again of the Spirit that man possesses eternal life, and has both known and entered the Kingdom of God in heaven, a spiritual, not physical habitation for all who have the Spirit of Christ within. Remember it is spirit that makes alive, and the flesh profits nothing. If Christ had not sent His Spirit to be in us, how would we have eternal life since flesh is not how man obtains eternal life?

But you say the spirit of the human who has not received eternal life in Christ is Satan's spirit!!

Every human who has not been born again of the Spirit of Christ continues to have the spirit of this world, the spirit that now works in all children of disobedience, which children in unbelief are. Unless they are born again, they shall die in their sins and suffer the same fate as the devil at the Judgment Throne of God.

Does "Satan's spirit in you" die when someone is given eternal life in Christ? Or does someone's "spirit of Satan" die when they are given eternal life in Christ?

No! When man is born again of the Spirit of Christ, the new man through Christ's Spirit in us is still clothed in a body destined to death through sin. That's why when we have been born again of the Spirit of Christ, we are instructed to put on the whole amour of God so that we are equipped to fight against the lusts of the world and our own flesh while we live in this world.

Ephesians 6:11-17 (KJV) Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

As long as we live in our body of flesh, even though we have been born again, we must still fight against the wiles of the devil, because he is always fighting against the church as She faithfully proclaims the gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the nations of the world that the Kingdom of God in heaven might be complete. The devil has a great arsenal to battle against us, but we have this promise.

1 John 4:4 (KJV) Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

That's absolute nonsense. They KNEW the commandment of God and they KNEW they had disobeyed the commandment of God so they KNEW that they had sinned. They were not idiots.

No, not idiots! But without knowing good or evil. How could they know what disobedience meant since they had no understanding of evil/death?

It's very clear that you are making things up as you go along - is it because you know in your heart that your religious ideas that you are expressing in this thread are not biblical, not true, and not of God (i.e, they are lies and all religious lies are of Satan)?

Prove what you allege through the Word of God or apologize for attacking the character of a Christian and saying I lie; therefore I am of Satan!!!

Continued below:

 

[rwb]

Another lie from the devil - asserting that God commanded them not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil "because it was according to His will that they do what He commanded them not to do" - in order that He could "use THE SIN to bless mankind".

Why does God tell us that Christ is the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world, if He did not know, and provide a way for them to escape both sin and death through sin? Of course this was the plan of God before creation, knowing man created with complete autonomy would NEVER choose to serve another not even the Creator. They would always choose self-rule, independent from God. Always desiring to be their own masters. That's why God allowed the serpent to test/try/temp A&E so they would come to know evil with death that comes from darkness and the goodness of God that is of the Light.

John 17:24 (KJV) Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-20 (KJV) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Acts 2:23-24 (KJV) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

You keep showing how far from God your are in your mind through your religious thinking.

You continue to cast dispersions upon my character, but I notice all you have is opinion, and not a single verse to prove what you allege.

Stop blaspheming God with your religion - because that is INDEED what you ARE doing.

If this is true you should be able to prove from the Word of God how I am blaspheming God! But all you have in opinions. Btw I feel I am in good company because Christ was also accused of blasphemy for speaking the truth.

John 10:33 (KJV) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

What is the matter with you? So it was OK for them to disobey God (which disobedience was an act of worshiping Satan) just because if they had not done so, Jesus would not have suffered as greatly as He did for our sins, and God would not have been humiliated as He needed to be by becoming a man, and by the death of Jesus on the cross in order to save us - and this is why God "actually wanted them to sin"?

It seems you are out of your mind! It was OK for them to disobey God! Are you kidding? Was bringing sin and death through sin to all humanity OK? What you just don't seem to get is how God not only knew A&E would disobey Him, before they did Christ according to Covenant promise of which God cannot lie, was ordained to be the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world! God did not want them to sin but clearly KNEW they would. Which is why He made provisions for both sin and death through sin from before the foundation of the world. You have much to learn, lacking almost all understanding of the Sovereignty of God over ALL of creation. BUT GOD, determined, despite man's disobedience to have a people from the human race to be His own. That my sad, unknowledgeable human is according to God's MERCY and GRACE! Of which you appear to lack all understanding of!

The next time if you choose again to reply, try to remember this is a forum for discussing the BIBLE, not your unbiblical opinions!

 

[The Light]

No. Not at all! You lack understanding what Isaiah 14 talks about.

I think not, but I will listen to your point of view.

There was NEVER an angel named lucifer in heaven.

I know.
Lucifer is a Latin word. The word lucifer is not a proper name in the Latin Vulgate and should be translated as "day star".

Nimrod is the day star. He is also the king of Babylon being discussed. He is also a man and he is also the Assyrian. No mention of Satan in Isaiah 14.

You cannot find one single scripture that says Lucifer was what men call an angel, nor is he ever called an angel.

Nor can you.

Frankly, that is the eisegesis (not exegesis) of men who do not understand that the scriptures are Spiritual books full of imagery, typology, representations, symbolism, and metaphors. i.e., the bondwoman and the freewoman of history are used of God as a "representation" of congregations of works and grace--the true congregation and the false. Likewise, Isaiah's chapter 14 is a vivid historical representation or simile of a deeper spiritual truth illustrated in the king of Babylon. Lucifer loosely means morning star.

Correct. But the more exact interpretation is DAY STAR. Jesus is the morning star.

Stars are representations of those of the congregation (see Revelation). In fact, he is literally called [ben shachar], or son of the morning illustrating light. This is NOT because he is an angel, but because he is God's messenger bringing judgment upon the unfaithful. Why do we suppose Revelation 18 illustrates so vividly the fall of the congregation and is so closely identified with Babylon, humm? Because of the sinful man rules there in place of God. He is also known as the man of sin or the man of lawlessness, which is man ruled over by Satan.

You need to understand the Babylonian religion. Nimrod at his death is said to have become the sun or day star. Semiramis his mother wife is the moon. Tammuz is the star. This is the false religion of Babylon and the false trinity. Tammuz is the false Christ Horus or Apollo that caries a bow. Hence the all-seeing eye of Horus on the back of the dollar bill...........the false Messiah who the world is waiting for in most of the false religions of the world. The man of sin will be the return of Nimrod, who was and is not and yet is. He is the eighth and is of the seven. Tammuz is the false Christ who is said to be the reincarnation of Nimrod.

Ezekiel 8
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.

14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

40 days of weeping for Tammuz is the origin of Lent, BTW.

Luke 10:16-18

• "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
• And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
• And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

This is exactly why lucifer in Latin was capitalized into the proper name Lucifer. Total mistranslation. These verses are about Nimrod, the little horn who was and is not and will come again.

Isaiah 14:12

• "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Almost the exact same language because it's talking about the same phenomenon of the completion of warfare and judgment of messengers. It "represented" the fall of those that did weaken the nations.

Exactly. And this is why it was mistranslated from lucifer in Latin to the proper name Lucifer. Total mistake of translation. Nimrod, the King of Babylon is the day star and is said to become the sun at his death. A ray of the sun is claimed to impregnate his mother, wife, Semiramis and have a son, Tammuz. FALSE SAVIOR.

For informational purposes, the name Lucifer is actually mentioned only one time in the Bible, and that only in reference to the King of Babylon, who is used as a synonym for man ruling the people of God "as if" he were God, and how God ultimately brings judgment upon him for his rebellion in usurping the role of Jehovah. When Isaiah 14 says the king of Babylon (Lucifer) has fallen from heaven, it illustrates his abandonment of the laws of the kingdom of heaven. It doesn't mean that the King of Babylon, called Lucifer or Nimord, was actually in heaven, Selah! This is also reiterated by the very next verse which says that in this King's heart he wanted to exalt his throne above the stars. "Meaning" that he wanted to rule the congregation "as if" he were God. Get it? The same scenario as 2nd Thessalonians 2 where we read of the same sinful man who opposed God and exalted himself so that (effectively) he was sitting to rule in the temple of God as man (Revelation 2:4). This is the exact same scenario as is written in Isaiah 14:

Isaiah 14:13

• "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

You need to understand the Babylonian religion. Nimrod at his death is said to become the sun or day star, Nimrod is the eighth king who is of the seven. Nimrod was the 1st king of the 1st seven kings.

He was a man wanting to rule the kingdom of God's congregation, as if he were God.

As for the Ezekiel reference, again it is the very same portrait of God condemning man for exalting himself to sit and rule "as if" he were God:

Ezekiel 28:2

• "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:"

As in Isaiah 14, this passage refers to a man, represented by the Prince of Tyrus, and it is also used as a Spiritual allegory or portrait of sinful man as he rules in the congregation of God, and how God ultimately brings judgment upon him for his rebellion in usurping the role of God.

Selah!

Nimrod will be the 8th king and he is of the seven. He was found in the secret burial chamber.

Nimrod is the reason George Bush Jr declared war on Iraq as the tomb of Nimrod was discovered just before that event. There were no weapons of mass destruction. There was only a tomb of Nimrod and thousands of ancient stone tablets that were taken from the Iraq museum.

The Jews are warned about Nimrod not being the Christ.

Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I think not, but I will listen to your point of view.

I know.
Lucifer is a Latin word. The word lucifer is not a proper name in the Latin Vulgate and should be translated as "day star".

Nimrod is the day star. He is also the king of Babylon being discussed. He is also a man and he is also the Assyrian. No mention of Satan in Isaiah 14.


Nor can you.

Correct. But the more exact interpretation is DAY STAR. Jesus is the morning star.



You need to understand the Babylonian religion. Nimrod at his death is said to have become the sun or day star. Semiramis his mother wife is the moon. Tammuz is the star. This is the false religion of Babylon and the false trinity. Tammuz is the false Christ Horus or Apollo that caries a bow. Hence the all-seeing eye of Horus on the back of the dollar bill...........the false Messiah who the world is waiting for in most of the false religions of the world. The man of sin will be the return of Nimrod, who was and is not and yet is. He is the eighth and is of the seven. Tammuz is the false Christ who is said to be the reincarnation of Nimrod.

Ezekiel 8
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.

14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

40 days of weeping for Tammuz is the origin of Lent, BTW.


This is exactly why lucifer in Latin was capitalized into the proper name Lucifer. Total mistranslation. These verses are about Nimrod, the little horn who was and is not and will come again.

Exactly. And this is why it was mistranslated from lucifer in Latin to the proper name Lucifer. Total mistake of translation. Nimrod, the King of Babylon is the day star and is said to become the sun at his death. A ray of the sun is claimed to impregnate his mother, wife, Semiramis and have a son, Tammuz. FALSE SAVIOR.



You need to understand the Babylonian religion. Nimrod at his death is said to become the sun or day star, Nimrod is the eighth king who is of the seven. Nimrod was the 1st king of the 1st seven kings.

Nimrod will be the 8th king and he is of the seven. He was found in the secret burial chamber.

Nimrod is the reason George Bush Jr declared war on Iraq as the tomb of Nimrod was discovered just before that event. There were no weapons of mass destruction. There was only a tomb of Nimrod and thousands of ancient stone tablets that were taken from the Iraq museum.

The Jews are warned about Nimrod not being the Christ.

Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

What are you talking about — Nimrod, Tammuz, George Bush Jr., starting the war to remove Nimrod's artifact and the tomb from the museum, Iraq, and so-called Babylonian religion? None of that is what the Scripture is addressing in this passage.

Book of Isaiah 14 is about the congregation of God and the prideful desire of man to exalt oneself above God’s people during the apostasy of Israel and New Testament congregation. It is not about Iraq. The “man of sin” seeks to rule within the sphere of God’s people — that is the context. We need to stop interpreting Scripture through world news headlines, documentaries, or museum exhibits instead of letting the Bible interpret itself.

And regarding Gospel of Matthew 24:26 — do you understand what Jesus meant by “the desert” and “the secret chambers”? Those terms are not random geographical clues; they carry spiritual meaning within the broader teaching of that chapter.

If we are going to handle God’s Word correctly, we must stay within the context of Scripture itself rather than reading modern speculation back into the text.

 

[The Light]

What are you talking about — Nimrod, Tammuz, George Bush Jr., starting the war to remove Nimrod's artifact and the tomb from the museum, Iraq, and so-called Babylonian religion? None of that is what the Scripture is addressing in this passage.

Isaiah 14 is about the King of Babylon. The king of Babylon is Nimrod. Nimrod is the DAY STAR. He is the one who is cast out of the grave. He is the one who seeks to rise above the clouds as he is the sun god.

If you don't understand that Isaiah 14 is all about Nimrod, the king of Babylon, you do not understand Isaiah 14.

Book of Isaiah 14 is about the congregation of God and the prideful desire of man to exalt oneself above God’s people during the apostasy of Israel and New Testament congregation. It is not about Iraq. The “man of sin” seeks to rule within the sphere of God’s people — that is the context. We need to stop interpreting Scripture through world news headlines, documentaries, or museum exhibits instead of letting the Bible interpret itself.

Isaiah 14 is about Nimrod, the day star.

And regarding Gospel of Matthew 24:26 — do you understand what Jesus meant by “the desert” and “the secret chambers”? Those terms are not random geographical clues; they carry spiritual meaning within the broader teaching of that chapter.

If we are going to handle God’s Word correctly, we must stay within the context of Scripture itself rather than reading modern speculation back into the text.

The desert and the secret chamber are specific, and they are exactly where the tomb of Nimrod is found. Jesus gives a SPECIFIC warning to the Jews. When they say he is in the desert and in the secret chamber, believe them not. Nimrod was and is not and will come again. He is the eighth and is of the seven. If you don't understand these things, you do not understand Isaiah 14.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The king of Babylon is Nimrod.

Wrong! Read your Scripture carefully:

Genesis 10:8-12

• The beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar."

He was a king whose kingdom began in Babel, but the Scripture does not explicitly say, "Nimrod was king of Babylon" in the later historical sense like Nebuchadnezzar II was.

Nimrod is the DAY STAR.

Scirpture please! The Bible NEVER calls Nimrod a "day star." No Scripture connects Nimrod with "day star", "Lucifer", "Morning Star", and "a fall from heaven". Nimrod was only described as "a mighty hunter before the LORD", and founder of Babel. That's it!

He is the one who is cast out of the grave.

Cast out of the grave? LOL.

He is the one who seeks to rise above the clouds as he is the sun god.

Really? I do not see a biblical record that Nimrod went above the clouds or declared himself as the sun god. Slow down you are spewing speculations all over. The "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds" has NOTHING to do with Nimrod, but reflect Satan's pride. it does not mention Nimrod. Only in your head.

If you don't understand that Isaiah 14 is all about Nimrod, the king of Babylon, you do not understand Isaiah 14.

If you think so, have fun with your sun god theory.

Isaiah 14 is about Nimrod, the day star.

(zip)

The desert and the secret chamber are specific, and they are exactly where the tomb of Nimrod is found.

Ahhh so you believe Christ was talking about Nimrod's tomb in Matthew 24? (cough cough ahem)...

Jesus gives a SPECIFIC warning to the Jews. When they say he is in the desert and in the secret chamber, believe them not.

Christ warned the Jews about Nimrod in His Olivet Discourse? Are you okay?

Nimrod was and is not and will come again. He is the eighth and is of the seven. If you don't understand these things, you do not understand Isaiah 14.

No need for me to understand because I KNOW it is nothing but a foolish man-made speculation and not based on Scripture.

Take care!

 

[The Light]

Wrong! Read your Scripture carefully:

Genesis 10:8-12

• The beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar."

He was a king whose kingdom began in Babel, but the Scripture does not explicitly say, "Nimrod was king of Babylon" in the later historical sense like Nebuchadnezzar II was.

If you understood these verses.........which you will have no clue whatsoever..........you would understand that the king of Babylon is Nimrod.

Isaiah 14
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

Scirpture please! The Bible NEVER calls Nimrod a "day star."

It's obvious that you do not under where Baal comes from. It's all over scripture. You should research a Nimrod/Baal connection.

Additionally, maybe you should study the false religions of the world. Most of them come from Babylon where the sun god is a male god. Example, Shintoism. Japan the land of the rising SUN.

Islam is an exception where the moon god is the male god of the false trinity of the sun, moon and stars.

No Scripture connects Nimrod with "day star", "Lucifer", "Morning Star", and "a fall from heaven". Nimrod was only described as "a mighty hunter before the LORD", and founder of Babel. That's it!

It's apparent that you do not understand the religion that spawned from Babylon and spread all over the world.

Nimrod is the King of Babylon.

Isaiah 14
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

He is the Assyrian.

Isaiah 14
24 The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Cast out of the grave? LOL.

Isaiah 14
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Really? I do not see a biblical record that Nimrod went above the clouds or declared himself as the sun god. Slow down you are spewing speculations all over. The "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds" has NOTHING to do with Nimrod, but reflect Satan's pride. it does not mention Nimrod. Only in your head.

You walk without understanding.

Who is Baal?

Who is Sol Invictus the unconquerable sun?

For that matter, who is the queen of heaven?

Jeremiah 7
18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

If you think so, have fun with your sun god theory.

Pay no attention to the eye of Horus over the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill. The world looks for the false savior Tammuz, Horus, Apollo etc etc etc etc and you are oblivious to what is happening.

Ahhh so you believe Christ was talking about Nimrod's tomb in Matthew 24? (cough cough ahem)...

Without a doubt.

The king of Babylon and the Assyrian who was and is not and will come again. He is the eighth king who is of the seven.

Christ warned the Jews about Nimrod in His Olivet Discourse? Are you okay?

You won't understand this, I don't think, but I will post it anyway.

Jeremaih 10
1 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

No need for me to understand because I KNOW it is nothing but a foolish man-made speculation and not based on Scripture.

Take care!

If you don't understand the origin of Baal, so be it.

 

[Taken]

If you want me to pay attention to what you have to say, you'll have to biblically answer these questions.

I can try to answer your questions. But I can not study, or understand any specific single point for you.
I can tell you How I study, picking one specific topic…cross referencing every text in context, of who, what, when, where, why, it applies to…reading, note taking, charts making, re-Reading… the knowledge…
Then…importantly…Praying to the Lord God, for its meaning /understanding…
Then…Wait…for His answer.
The answer may been soon, or weeks later, at no particular “time”…
But when the answer of understanding comes, I re-Read my notes on the topic… and am satisfied with the knowledge + understanding ….
Point being, this is a long process, we (spouse/ family) have done for years.
We don’t “go” to Church, whereby an other selects our topic and tells us their opinion.
We engage with (willing) family, friends, strangers….at any time / places…regarding Biblical topics… can quickly discover their interests and depth of their own knowledge / topic interest / parallel understanding and method of how they arrive at such answers…
Guesswork, believing because another they trust said so, or their prayer of asking God.
Even on this forum of strangers… easy to read who says…
They believe this or that… because it “makes logical sense to their mind”, “they give a long list of what this or that dead scholar believed” or “long years of family tradition without question or verification necessary”. Etc.
I believe Jesus’ teaching… and focus there, and trust He is the source of Understanding, thus ask Him.
I never expect … any of Jesus’ teachings about Spiritual things, to firstly “make logical sense to my mind…” it doesn’t.
As I said, I don’t know if, or how others study, or learn, affect how I choose to do.
Disagreement with other humans okay, as my agreement is focused on agreement with knowledge and understanding of Jesus.

Glory to God,
Taken